Legalization of All Drugs - Gateway to Addiction?

[PazVerdeRadical]

well

well

They burn all the coca tree in columbia it doesent fuckin matter to me.

hola sogman,

the coca plant, its leaves, in its natural form, like cannabis flowers, are beautiful foods for man, the coca leaves not only contain alkaloids and stimulants, but also a whole range of minerals and vitamins essential to the human diet. the coca leaves are so far from what is refined cocained and crack cocaine, that comparing the two is simple-minded. it would be like comparing grapes to wines, and not even.
so the coca trees in colombia (spelled with an 'o', not 'u') and elsewhere should not be burnt. the coca plant is a sacred entheogens for many tribes of the andes and amazon, which helps them connect to forces that usually escape the perception of the secular.

on the same note, no matter how fucked up these synthetic drugs are to the human organism, their presence increases even more, while proportionately, cannabis and other naturally occuring psychedelics gain more and more bad reputation thanks to fucked up propaganda and the natural substances are more persecuted and eradicated than the synthetic damaging stuff.

overgrow!
paz.

It's funny and eerie as well how the western materialist society is able to turn mind expanding (and keys to un-material realms) plants into mind-destroying substances, eh ?
This is a crucial part of the education, to make the people know that these plants have not been put on earth for big fun (or destruction), but that they have something to teach us, that they can be of great help.
Still, we're everyday claiming the superiority of our science, everyday drinking, eating "scientificaly proven", but our societies keep on sticking to the religious moto consisting of diabolizing the teaching-plants and their use (even though science has proven their numerous healing abilities). Schizo world...

Irie !

 

[Gangabiss]

First we need to legalise plants...ALL plants.

We can deal with the synthetics later.

 

[sogman]

a whole range of minerals and vitamins essential to the human diet.

See there's a good example of something I didn't know, obviously because I believed everything the "government" told me about coca straight up, and was satisifed with that.

This world truly is full of propaganda and people looking out for their investments at any cost. I'm sorry Paz, woulda been outright dense of me to condone them destroying the sacrament's of someone else's religeon.

On that note now that we all basically agree on the same thing, how the fuck do we get the shit legalized

 

[tbc OG]

To whoever said it looks like I do have an addictive personality because of the pills...

My point is, that I have never felt like I've had an addiction to anything, whether drugs or anything else in life. The first time I ever felt a hint of "addiction" was with those pills, which is what leads me to ask how dangerous they really are.

I think a lot of us agree for the most part...but someone said perscriptions should be required for MDMA, LSD, etc... My question is what would be the criteria here to see who could and could not get those drugs.

Plus- I really don't think the argument of natural vs synthetic is any good. There are plenty of all natural substances that can easily kill you - look at many poison mushrooms for example.

 

[motaco]

well the problem with drugs being illegal is whether you want them to or not they are more available than legal stuff.

whether its illegal or not you got dope and coke on the corner 24/7/365 so why fill up prisons with non violent drug offenders and stop them from raising their kids or gettin help for themselves.

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

So at what point does an organic become a synthetic? I would think that it only does this if you actually synthesize the molecular structures, rather than using organic sources.

Does this mean that those who enjoy LSD would either need to mold black/dark rye kernels in order to grow ergot? Or perhaps extract LSA from from Hawaiin baby wood rose seeds? Or morning glory seeds? Both of which have higher levels of natural toxins than the synthetic version?

hola moose, how are you?

you are very correct at pointing out when does an organic become a synthetic; indeed, this only happens when an effective formula is designed to reproduce the molecular structures of particular organic substances such as lsd. and sure, some synthetics can indeed be 'cleaner' than the organic formulas; although this is still debatable because organic formulas have many variations...

in the specific cases of cocaine/crack and heroin/morphine for example, these can be said to be refined versions rather than synthetics. in these cases, we already have proof that the refined versions are less desireable for human consumption because of, lets call it, the side effects.

peace!

 

[GoodbyeBlueSky]

if you want to get REAL technical though...

crack or freebase is the state in which cocaine appears in nature. cocaine HCL (hydrochloride) or powder cocaine is the result of human tampering. acetone is added to base cocaine paste to convert it into snortable cocaine powder...

the lines become quickly blurred in these areas...

 

[mriko]

err, an organic (if I understand it as "natural") definitely CANNOT be turned into something synthetic. Synthetic coumpounds are built ones, not modified.

Cocaine is not a synthetic, it's only extracted from the plant without transformation. Morphine is natural as well. Heroin is semi-synthetic, for its is made by modifying a natural compound. commercial LSD25 is not a synthetic either. Other LSDs exist, made from synthetic precurssor, but these are NOT LSD25, and are rather used in research field.

better use the word "natural" instead of "organic", for if you add it to "formula" you're then talking about a carbon-based compound (natural or synthetic).

Both of which have higher levels of natural toxins than the synthetic version?

yup, but at least with the seeds (and other vegetal products) you know which kindo f nasty stuff might be inthere, and how to get rid of it. When it comes to a square of blotter you have no guarantee about what it could be (LSD or something else), and about the impurities and toxins it might contain.

and LSD isnot the best example actually. It is simply a compound. Not something you find in the nature and then extracted, isolated, purified such as coke for instance. We're not going from a plant traditionnaly used turned into a poison. More, LSD is basically "clean" for the body. It's not something that is destroys the organism and de-socialize users as other hard dopes.

What about psilocybine for instance ? between some pills of the active compound and some fresh mushrooms, I'll go for the mushrooms definitely !

There are plenty of all natural substances that can easily kill you - look at many poison mushrooms for example.

yup, manymany, but experience has taught us not to eat these so people stay away from them. But dope are different, there's a difference between eating a plate of Amanite Phaloid and using everyday some powder or pill. THe Amanite will kill you straight, but not the dope. Will rather first ruin the body and social life, then eventually death might occur (but not especially from the dope itself, can be sickness, suicide, accident, or some deadly adulterant). Yup, people know about dangerous plants, but a pill or something coming out of a lab looks very neutral, very safe, very easy.

Irie !

 

[Pythagllio]

I'd like to make it clear that I in no way support absolute prohibition of any substance. There is more than enough evidence that the 'noble experiment' has failed. It does not achieve the goals enumerated, and doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is insane. My point about crack is that it is pharmacologically identical to powder cocaine.

By the way, I haven't smoked rock since 1989. While it didn't do my life any good the last goddamn thing I needed was getting tossed in jail, or having 'treatment' shoved down my throat. It would be really nice if people would learn to mind their own business.

 

[tbc OG]

Yeah, I'd like to clarify something about my views as well...

When I say that some drugs should possibly remain illegal...in absolutley no way do I mean that jail sentences or even fines should be imposed. I just mean that it would be illegal to sell or import these drugs...possession would result in optional treatment and thats it.

I will never believe in jailing non-violent drug users...this has to be one of the worlds greatest flaws. It takes an ordinary, usually otherwise law-abiding citizen and turns them into a criminal.

 

[sogman]

What it really comes down to is simple.
People these day's have to educate themselves and become aware of drugs through their own experiences, or research. Apparently we can't depend on our government and healthcare system's to give us the legitimate fact's so one must cut through the shit with a machete and discover their own boundary's.

Whether it be synthetic, organic, or natural you need to understand what your putting in your body.

I think a good determining factor of whether a drug is helping you or not is if you cry and resent yourself knowlingly.

Like Moose eater there. I'm a sensitive person and I wouldn't be able to emotionally contain myself like that for years. Apparently he had enough people around him interested in his habit as well so he justified what he was doing. And prolly overlooked the dangerous factors entirely.

 

[tbc OG]

Good post Moose Eater. Its nice to get some openness and honesty on these forums.

And I agree with your point for the most part, but I think there can be another side to things. What I'm saying, is you had the power to stop using coke without any problems, but it might not be that way for everyone that wants to quit.

To be completley honest, I don't think coke is that dangerous of a drug, compared to some of the other stuff out there...Meth mainly. Meth is becoming an epidemic because the people that use it can't just quit, like you could with coke. Even when people do quit meth, they are forever changed.

And I agree with what you said about treatment. Perhaps I didn't think my last post through enough. I'm going to school right now and I have a couple friends that are psych majors and could very well end up being some sort of drug therapist... and sometimes I just ask myself, how the fuck could one of these people ever relate to a crack, coke, meth whatever the drug addict.

I think most therapists would make the subject feel inferior which is just adding to the problem. I had to see a drug counselor as a kid for some bullshit drinking charge and it had that effect on me... like you are less of a person because of the choices you've made...it's some bullshit.

Anyway, it seems that we all pretty much agree on the idea that most drugs should be legal, but there is some question as to where and how to draw the line. If only our government had the same views as us....

 

[Closet Funk]

Cannabis and shrooms should be legalized because they are natural and you don't have to do nothing to them to make them give off an effect. All the others should stay illegal.

 

[mriko]

All the others should stay illegal.

All plants should be legal !

I think most therapists would make the subject feel inferior which is just adding to the problem. I had to see a drug counselor as a kid for some bullshit drinking charge and it had that effect on me... like you are less of a person because of the choices you've made...it's some bullshit.

My, to push someone down is not what a therapist is supposed to do, not all are like that, and I suppose than most are truly willing to help (well, it depend wether they do this work because they want to help people out of the shitty life, or want to clean the country of its druggies...).

No therapist has the right to judge the choices that had been made, definitely.

Irie !

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

I'd like to make it clear that I in no way support absolute prohibition of any substance. There is more than enough evidence that the 'noble experiment' has failed. It does not achieve the goals enumerated, and doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is insane. My point about crack is that it is pharmacologically identical to powder cocaine.

By the way, I haven't smoked rock since 1989. While it didn't do my life any good the last goddamn thing I needed was getting tossed in jail, or having 'treatment' shoved down my throat. It would be really nice if people would learn to mind their own business.

hello pythagllio,
i think the point is not really about the prohibition of crack or cocaine as opposed to that of mj or whether you put this in your body or not; at least from where i am standing, it seems the issue is that certain substances, after having been refined or synthetized, they can be more harmful to how the human organism works than natural source from which those substances were made from.

other than that, i have to agree with you

be well.

peace!

 

[tbc OG]

All plants should be legal !



My, to push someone down is not what a therapist is supposed to do, not all are like that, and I suppose than most are truly willing to help (well, it depend wether they do this work because they want to help people out of the shitty life, or want to clean the country of its druggies...).

No therapist has the right to judge the choices that had been made, definitely.

Irie !

I wouldn't say it was a direct result of the therapist, but more the situation as a whole. The fact that I had to go through all of this work and this course because of an alcohol ticket. They show you images and stories of hardcore alcoholics that have completley messed their lives up, and basically say that you are on that path even though its far from being true.

I can realize that at this age, but the lines are less clear when your just a kid.

 

[robobond]

Cannabis and shrooms should be legalized because they are natural and you don't have to do nothing to them to make them give off an effect. All the others should stay illegal.

Coca is natural too along with mescaline. The fungus lsd comes from ergot which in its natural form produces effects similar to lsd however also in its natural form it is a poison. Ironically it was ergot that caused much of the werewolve scare do to its effects.