Legalization in Canada, how are things there?

[two heads]

How sweet it is! Thank you and congratulations to my fellow Canadian Cannabists.

 

[shaggyballs]

Sweet and sour!

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With Canada legalizing cannabis tomorrow, there is a lot to celebrate as it marks an end to Canada’s cannabis prohibition regime that began almost 100 years ago, but it’s not all fun and games- in many ways Oct. 17 marks the beginning of Prohibition 2.0.

There have been many, many fails during this whole legalization process, and CLN covered a few of those in an earlier article. It’s been a very long and bumpy road just getting to this point, and when you can still face up to 14 years in jail over cannabis, we’ve still got a long, long way to go.

Here are 3 more of Canada’s biggest legalization fails, so far.

Fail 1: No edibles

While smoking a joint is one of the most iconic and common methods of consuming cannabis, there are health concerns over the effects of inhaling cannabis smoke. Edibles offer a safer and healthier way to utilize the effects and benefits of cannabis because there is no smoking involved since you eat it, which makes it so much easier on your lungs. There are many people who would prefer edibles because of this.

As Dana Larsen, one of Canada’s most prominent cannabis activists, previously told CLN in an interview:

“Although [cannabis] buds have a lot of medicinal value, the real medicinal value of cannabis lies in extracts, capsules, edibles, suppositories, and those kinds of products.”

Too bad edibles and all those other products will still be illegal in Canada, even after Oct. 17 because only certain CBD products and smokeable flowers are being legalized, making this a huge fail for so-called legalization.


While the government has promised to start looking into legalizing edibles sometime in 2019, if you look at how long it took the severely out-of-touch government to legalize cannabis flower, it doesn’t inspire much hope at all. Who can forget Sen. Nicole Eaton, who infamously said that “5 grams is about 4 tokes” (which honestly could count as a separate fail unto itself)?

As much as the government says their approach to legalization is about public health, it has stalled on arguably the healthiest method of consuming


Fail 2: 14 years in jail over a “legal” substance?!

This helpful chart prepared by Trina Fraser, a partner at Brazeau Seller Law, was based on the first reading version of the Cannabis Act.


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As you can see, in addition to fines that range anywhere from a few hundred dollars to thousands, you risk up to 14 years in jail for certain offences! Now is that really what you expected when Trudeau said he’d legalize cannabis in Canada?

Michael Bryant, a lawyer, former politician, and current executive director for the Canadian Civil Liberties Association, wrote an excellent article about how Bill C-45 essentially recriminalizes cannabis, where he calls out, among other things, Canada’s insanely harsh sentences, sa“There are new, more punitive and wholly disproportionate maximum sentences for running afoul of BillC45. I know of no 14 year prison sentence arising from distribution of Smirnoff, let alone orchids.”



Fail 3: Canada’s licensed producer system
Many of these licensed producers are being run by former government insiders and cops who profited off of Prohibition and ruined countless lives in the process. Now that legalization is around the corner, they’re jumping into the cannabis industry and snatching up all those lucrative cannabis supply contracts (no doubt leveraging their cozy relationships with those in power) while doing everything they can to continue criminalizing the real growers and cannabis producers who have been doing this in Canada for decades.

You know, like the growers that put BC Bud on the map in the first place. But perhaps the LP’s are all rightfully worried about what this competition will do to their bottom lines as the OG growers actually know what they’re doing with skills built and passed down over generations.

LP’s haven’t been growing for very long at all and you can often tell from the irradiated, bunk weed they often produce. This is an example of crony capitalism in its purest form.

Crony capitalism: an economy in which businesses thrive not as a result of risk, but rather as a return on money amassed through a nexus between a business class and the political class.

Lawyer Michael Bryant, in his previously mentioned article, also called out the legal regime and the stinking hypocrisy of the cops and politicians who criminalized hundreds of thousands of Canadians for over a century who are now suddenly launching their own cannabis companies in the hopes of making a quick buck.


“Be that as it may, legalization has launched a beautiful friendship between cannabis capitalism, retired police captains, and government treasuries….

Ex-cons and addicts find no relief in this bill, which rewards heretofore opponents of legalization with riches piled upon their taxpayer pensions, but nothing, nothing, nothing by way of new legal or economic opportunities for those punished by cannabis prohibition to date.”

And as much as these Prohibitionists may claim they’ve had a change of heart because they’ve seen the medical benefits of cannabis first-hand, how many of them do you think are calling for cannabis amnesty for those whose lives they ruined?


Source: https://cannabislifenetwork.com/3-more-cannabis-legalization-fails-in-canada-so-far/


RMS

 

[SandyFantasyman]

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[clearheaded]

^^^^lol unfortunetly it would of been better if NDP got it going but eh cannabis is almost legal. butI feel 5-10 years things will defacto really open up to be decriminalized ie nothing anyone can do with cannabis can be jailed period.

 

[fatigues]

^^^^lol unfortunetly it would of been better if NDP got it going but eh cannabis is almost legal. butI feel 5-10 years things will defacto really open up to be decriminalized ie nothing anyone can do with cannabis can be jailed period.

This is Canada. It's a country with rules and regulations. That's how we roll up here. With everything. We regulate amateur house league hockey, FFS.

Decriminalization served only the interests of the black market. And it didn't happen. We skipped right over that. We knew whose interests that really served; it wasn't that of average Canadians.

It's legal and every Canadian can grow their own (Quebec and Manitoba's unconstitutional bans will be struck down). We can give it away, 30g at a time to any one person. We can trade our nugs to others. And those who are licensed to commercially grow and sell can do so, so that others who can't be bothered to grow their own can buy it.

So you can be self-interested if you like. I'm happy with a legalized and regulated market, thank-you-very-much.

 

[shaggyballs]

This is Canada. It's a country with rules and regulations. That's how we roll up here. With everything. We regulate amateur house league hockey, FFS.
The problem here is you see regulations as a necessity.
Decriminalization served only the interests of the black market. And it didn't happen. We skipped right over that. We knew whose interests that really served; it wasn't that of average Canadians.
And you are good with that?
It would have served a lot more than just the black market, you are not well informed.


So you can be self-interested if you like. I'm happy with a legalized and regulated market, thank-you-very-much.

This is funny!
You state you can be self interested if you like.
Followed by I am happy it serves me well, to hell with your interest.
Your true colors are showing here bud!

 

[fatigues]

"True colors"?

Dude - I'm not hiding anything. I'm not in it for the money. This is not my job; it's my hobby.

I generally don't support tariffs to protect industry, but now I should support people going to a penitentiary in some loser lottery, as long as it allows for the others who don't lose out on that lottery to make a comfortable living off of it?

Nope.

There's no hidden agenda here. At all.

 

[shaggyballs]

"True colors"?
You seem out for you not what is best for all.

Dude - I'm not hiding anything. I'm not in it for the money. This is not my job; it's my hobby.
I did not say you were hiding anything.
No one said we thought it was your job.
No one said you were in it for the money.

I generally don't support tariffs to protect industry, but now I should support people going to a penitentiary in some loser lottery, as long as it allows for the others who don't lose out on that lottery to make a comfortable living off of it?

Nope.

There's no hidden agenda here. At all.

You will need to clarify this last statement, as I can not make sense of it.

 

[shaggyballs]

 

[shaggyballs]

I think I know what you are trying to say....LOL

I find it amazing that just because I want what is best for all cannabis users, I am labeled as some kind of cannabis mougle...LOL
I am a retired carpenter and I am not making money from cannabis legal or illegal.
I do not stand to make money in the future whether cannabis remains illegal or not.
So lets move on from that childish BS!

 

[fatigues]

Depends on the "all" that you are referring to. My "all" goes beyond the narrow self-interest of those who are looking to make money off of the black market.

And yes, I believe that a legal regulated market serves the interest of far more people than a free-for-all taking place under decriminalized conditions, without any regulations at all. The suggestion that LP weed (which is actually tested and highly regulated) is somehow "poisonous" while the weed on the black market (that is not tested or regulated) is somehow more organic and virtuous is such an incredible pile of shit, I don't know what you are smoking to believe it -- but it's still illegal - everywhere.

We are not going to agree on this, I expect. The nice part is, I don't have to have you agree with this point of view. It's happening anyway, even if you don't like it or happen to agree with it.

As for the LPs and their weed, I'll judge their product when it is grown under normal commercial conditions. To date, either in the medical market or in the current conditions, that has not happened yet. Give it a few years, then we'll have a better idea. It's flash dried, not cured, irradiated (which can harm some terps) and when you get it, it's very dry. The people who bought it were largely dankrupt and so didn't leave it with Boveda for 10-14 days to rehydrate. So quality wise, it's all a pretty crappy "out of jar" experience.

But any "out of jar" experience is a step up when your past experience was a hasty transaction with a dude in a car with baggies of weed. And that's still how most of it was sold here in Canada prior to October 17.

What we do know about it so far is that despite its inferior processing, people will buy it. A lot of it. At a very high price. The product on sale is likely to only get better; not worse.

I can smoke a doob on the street. I can meet up with fellow enthusiasts at a vape lounge and trade flower, rosin, hash, tincture, bath bombs, seeds, clones. And that's not a "theoretical freedom" -- that's something a dozen of us here in Toronto did locally, less than 24 hours ago.

And that sure as hell felt good. That's legalization. And I like it. I liked it a lot.

 

[clearheaded]

its not and either or proposition so not sure what you are going on about. it is what it is, but if decriminalized all that means is there is no one going to jail and no tickets unless actually causing harm and instead of upping budget as they have they would save that budget as was the intention for legalization. there still can be "regulated" cannabis even tho alot of esp tweed stuff tastes of plastic which has to come from something. Things slowly getting sorted with that so whatever.

Also no you legally cant vape in a vape lounge nor can u have hash or rosin.. just fyi its illegal unless in BC. also alot of places cant consume at all outside only inside ones residence thats it... if was decrim that would not be the case

 

[shaggyballs]

narrow self-interest
This sounds a lot like the pot calling the kettle black to me.
You are not in the know if you think you can smoke weed on the public streets and not get arrested.

Try smokin a doob while walking into a police station with some hash and a pack of seeds in your hand.
No worries right? You will not go to jail, after all it is legal right?
Report back when you finish the test.

Speaking of being not informed:
You must have missed the news where LP's were guilty of spraying poison on their weed.
So you think you are safe, but it is smoke and mirrors.
Do yourself a favor and get all the info before claiming how great things are.
You may see things differently.

 

[fatigues]

narrow self-interest
This sounds a lot like the pot calling the kettle black to me.
You are not in the know if you think you can smoke weed on the public streets and not get arrested.

I live in Ontario. It is absolutely 100% legal to smoke cannabis outside anywhere in Ontario, subject to not being within 20m of a playground, school or recreational athletic facility -- or any other prescribed place in the Regulation.

Cannabis consumption outdoors is governed by the Smoke Free Ontario Act, specifically section 12(2).

Seeing as I am an Ontario lawyer, I think I know the law of my province a lot better than you. I do it for a living and have for over 20 years+

Try smokin a doob while walking into a police station with some hash and a pack of seeds in your hand.
No worries right? You will not go to jail, after all it is legal right?
Report back when you finish the test.

Could you BE any more misinformed? It's not illegal to manufacture or possess hash, rosin or other form of cannabis concentrate in Canada -- other than that made with organic solvents (BHO, shatter).

Even CO2 distillate is legal to possess and to consume or make yourself (assuming you could, that's expensive equipment) but it isn't legal yet to sell it under the Cannabis Act. That comes next year. Possession is legal (assuming they could not substantiate it was illicit).

As for getting arrested if I walked into a Police Station smoking, I'd get a ticket. Not because it is unlawful to smoke cannabis on the city street -- but because it is unlawful to do so inside a police station as it is an enclosed workspace under section 12(2) of the Smoke Free Ontario Act.

Speaking of being not informed:
You must have missed the news where LP's were guilty of spraying poison on their weed.

I am well aware that one out of 132 licensed LPs (Mettrum, since purchased by Canopy Growth) was fined for applying a banned fungicide (myclobutanil) to its indoor weed in an attempt to control powdery mildew in 2014. Mettrum hid myclo in the ceiling above the grow space so it wouldn't be found by inspectors. A former employee tipped off Health Canada about where it was hidden on site. There were fines and people were dismissed in the wake of the scandal.

There are currently 132 LPs. It was four years ago. Stop pretending this is a widespread problem. It isn't. It never was.

OTOH, Myclo is routinely used by black market growers as a fungicide. They shouldn't -- but they do. Hell, even one of the more reputable top-shelf MoMs in Canada has admitted to using banned fungicides, too.

But the LPs are regulated, tested, and all of the larger and mid-sized LPs are now publicly traded. It's simply not a widespread problem. It's a tin-foil hat issue that those who prefer a black market to dredge up time and again, as if it was a cross to ward off vampires.

Do yourself a favor and get all the info before claiming how great things are.

Buddy, I have probably forgotten more about the law of cannabis in Canada than you have ever known in your entire life.

I don't know just a little bit more about this than you do -- there is absolutely nobody else on ICM who knows more about the law of cannabis in Ontario than I do. Any part of that unclear to you?

 

[St. Phatty]

What are the retail price assumptions that are made when people fund new Large Commercial grows ?

In one thread, someone said that the government run dispensaries charge $10 to $13 a gram Canadian.

It seems like they are using past performance to predict future results.

Like the similarly worded warnings issued by stock brokerages etc., that's often un-wise.

Understood, not everybody is going go to a public place, where they can buy quality Cannabis for $100 an ounce, a little under $4 a gram.

If you have a corporate desk job, you can usually afford $10 a gram.


In general, it seems like the industry is skating to where the puck has been, instead of to, where it's going.

Also it seems the response of people who own the large grows is, "we'll just grow a fvck-load."

That just creates a race to the bottom, price wise.


Yesterday I was at the 'transfer station' (garbage dump), and there was this guy throwing out the obvious remains of a 2018 grow.

We talked a bit. He verified what I had observed - the prices had fallen out and growing was a lot less fun than he thought it would be.


Anyway, will keep watching. Packing up about 1/2 pound to gift to a neighbor, who was comparably generous last year and this year.

The 'trigger' for this kind of zero-cost transfer is sort of a Santa Claus thing - you give pot to everyone who was nice. If your rich acquaintances want some, they have to pay.

 

[Itsmychoice]

I respect the perspectives and it’s cool to see the freedoms in place for our northern neighbors. I do hope all laws continue to progress to allow anyone the chance to grow up to 200? plants if they please. It could be tested just the same if it is to be shared. It doesn’t have to be one way or the other. I do think, in time, the big ops will be able to match any small scale master in quality and do it consistently. That matters not for I am an adult and I should be able to do it myself or get it from someone I trust, period. It certainly is progress and I think we all can agree that it’s about time.

 

[shaggyballs]

Talk about cutting out the little guy??

“We go from a situation where if you wanted to submit an application, you submit your paperwork and you sit and wait to hear back from Health Canada,” said Matt Maurer, to BNN Bloomberg in May.
“Now you’re asked to build a $30-million to $40-million facility before you even submit your application.”

 

[SandyFantasyman]

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[armedoldhippy]

^^^I missed the post where you thanked @fatigues for correcting all your misconceptions.

i wouldn't hold my breath waiting...

 

[troutman]

It's 100% corrupt. That's how it is in Canada.

Name another agricultural crop that you have to bribe the Government be able to grow on any scale.