LED vertical scrog

[Ichabod Crane]

thanks for replying bro, since university these kind of subjects light something in my brain =)
my queries are mostly about the ratios, and the feeding way, in relation with lights and grow method... (i'm high, i'm sorry if i can't make myself clear). this is mostly why i needed the numebrs to be correct hahaha

you see, when i ran my numbers with the ferts i'm using, and comparing with some recipes from Head, DJM and other big names; the amounts are always crazy different.

still, some kind of ratio can be seen throughout all recipes for coco, so my questions are:
1. are you using this ratio for the entire cycle?
I normally use the same feed all the way threwveg and flower.
2. do you think ratios or ppms should vary according to the grow method and mostly, irrigation method?
I only hand water
2.5 do you adjust the recipe for different stages? i mean, keeping the ratios together, and increasing EC.
When my plants are small and I am using a weak light I use half strength.
3. when did you realize this was your aimed ratio/recipe?
I decided that my plants needed more calcium.
But to get it I needed a additional item. There is no reason I should have to add cal/mag when it is in the base fertilizer.
4. if by changing EC, or changing the ratio of nutrients, how do you adjust your pH? and after adjusting, do you take into account the added elements of the pH modifier?
I adjust down with phosphoric acid. I adjust up with potassium silicate. I dont need very much of either so it will no move the number much. So I am not concerned to much about it.

just some ratios regarding these numbers:
N 0.9
N:K 1.7
P:K 2
N:Ca 1.3
Ca:K 1.28
Ca:Mg 1.98
N:Mg 0.65

so kind of... N 1 - P 1 - K 2 - Ca 1.3 - Mg 0.65 - S 1

so yeah, thanks a lot for your time and dedication! maybe the questions are quite dumb, if you have any comments i will appreciate each of them,
ty!
cheers

I have been running LEDs for about 1.5 years. They are quite strong and I have not been able to get the plants to look perfect. So I am trying different things to correct the issues I have been having.

One is not enough calcium. So the way to fix that is add more calcium. But my calcium comes from calcium nitrate. So to add that will increase the nitrogen. To much nitrogen gives me fluffy buds and a lot of stretch.

With this in mind I need to figure out how to add the calcium and not increase the nitrogen. I dont like to have a bunch of different additives because it leads to mistakes. Plus they usually come with other stuff I dont want.

So I was talking with Waxitaxi and he was telling me what other people were doing. I searched for what he was talking about but could not find it. I was irritated with Jack's anyway since they changed their mix several years ago. So I checked another place I buy ferts at and they have the Chemgro that I bought.

So this new fertilizer reduces the nitrogen in the base mix. I thought that I would give it a try to see if it will clear up my calcium problems since I can take the calcium up even higher. I say that because I have been running the Jack's for about 9 years. For most of that time it ran great. Most of my problem happened when I switched to LEDs. Since it worked fine I am leaving the NPK close to what it was with the Jack's and increasing the calcium.

Anyway that is my thinking. And I am not a expert at this. So maybe someone with more knowledge will stop by.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Mixing this at this amount:

2.5 grams calcium nitrate
2.0 grams 4-20-39
1.5 grams magnesium nitrate

Gets me these numbers:
N= 10.39%
P= 8.89%
K= 17.33%


That is 10.4-8.9-17.3 for the Chemgro
and then 9.2-7.2-15.6 for the Jack's

That ratio is pretty close from the Chemgro to the Jack's. But the calcium is up about 25% in the Chemgro to the Jack's. This is what I was aiming for. A increase in the calcium with out spiking the nitrogen.

My calcium went from 129 to 160.

 

[pongster]

so after all these specs, i'm guessing the final ppms of the solution you prepared are (i only ran the numbers you provided in the posts before).
N 123.3
P 105.5
K 205.8
Mg 81.0
Ca 160.9
S 126.6 (i just calculated through the MgSO4 as 32% S)

sorry these numbers are wrong since i didn't account that the fert has 20% P2O5 and not 20% P, same for K2O, so the numbers are actually:
P 46
K 171

this is quite a difference indeed, sorry about that,
cheers,

 

[hayday]

I have been running LEDs for about 1.5 years. They are quite strong and I have not been able to get the plants to look perfect. So I am trying different things to correct the issues I have been having.

One is not enough calcium. So the way to fix that is add more calcium. But my calcium comes from calcium nitrate. So to add that will increase the nitrogen. To much nitrogen gives me fluffy buds and a lot of stretch.

With this in mind I need to figure out how to add the calcium and not increase the nitrogen. I dont like to have a bunch of different additives because it leads to mistakes. Plus they usually come with other stuff I dont want.

So I was talking with Waxitaxi and he was telling me what other people were doing. I searched for what he was talking about but could not find it. I was irritated with Jack's anyway since they changed their mix several years ago. So I checked another place I buy ferts at and they have the Chemgro that I bought.

So this new fertilizer reduces the nitrogen in the base mix. I thought that I would give it a try to see if it will clear up my calcium problems since I can take the calcium up even higher. I say that because I have been running the Jack's for about 9 years. For most of that time it ran great. Most of my problem happened when I switched to LEDs. Since it worked fine I am leaving the NPK close to what it was with the Jack's and increasing the calcium.

Anyway that is my thinking. And I am not a expert at this. nSo maybe someone with more knowledge will stop by.

Verdantgreen had recipe for Fast Calcium. It used eggshells and vinegar I believe. You have chickens so maybe if they lay eggs you might have your stuff. I think its in the oraganic section but contact him and see if he know where it is. Been years back...

I took a wide angle pano of my room this evening after I pulled 3 plants. It looks weird but its got two Ickybud 3000's burning along with some HLG gear.
360 degree view, the yellowish lights are yours.

You work pretty hard on your grow Icky, the weight you pull in tells the tale there. I'm lazy in my garden as I have a full time gig for exercise and work on a place to roost on the side. All my plants go in untopped and hardly get touched untill I drag them out by the base. Just feed and water.

Cool thread ...

 

[Earlmarne]

I have been running LEDs for about 1.5 years. They are quite strong and I have not been able to get the plants to look perfect. So I am trying different things to correct the issues I have been having.

One is not enough calcium. So the way to fix that is add more calcium. But my calcium comes from calcium nitrate. So to add that will increase the nitrogen. To much nitrogen gives me fluffy buds and a lot of stretch.

With this in mind I need to figure out how to add the calcium and not increase the nitrogen. I dont like to have a bunch of different additives because it leads to mistakes. Plus they usually come with other stuff I dont want.

So I was talking with Waxitaxi and he was telling me what other people were doing. I searched for what he was talking about but could not find it. I was irritated with Jack's anyway since they changed their mix several years ago. So I checked another place I buy ferts at and they have the Chemgro that I bought.

So this new fertilizer reduces the nitrogen in the base mix. I thought that I would give it a try to see if it will clear up my calcium problems since I can take the calcium up even higher. I say that because I have been running the Jack's for about 9 years. For most of that time it ran great. Most of my problem happened when I switched to LEDs. Since it worked fine I am leaving the NPK close to what it was with the Jack's and increasing the calcium.

Anyway that is my thinking. And I am not a expert at this. So maybe someone with more knowledge will stop by.

Might want to look into some e-ca-10 Ive been bumping up my ca numbers with it
It needs hot water to break down fast. But once done it dissolves right in.
Id really love to hear your take on the stuff. Spendy but ca without n ill take it

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Verdantgreen had recipe for Fast Calcium. It used eggshells and vinegar I believe. You have chickens so maybe if they lay eggs you might have your stuff. I think its in the oraganic section but contact him and see if he know where it is. Been years back...

I took a wide angle pano of my room this evening after I pulled 3 plants. It looks weird but its got two Ickybud 3000's burning along with some HLG gear.
360 degree view, the yellowish lights are yours.
View Image
You work pretty hard on your grow Icky, the weight you pull in tells the tale there. I'm lazy in my garden as I have a full time gig for exercise and work on a place to roost on the side. All my plants go in untopped and hardly get touched untill I drag them out by the base. Just feed and water.

Cool thread ...

I am looking to set up some auto dosers in the near future. So I am not sure that would work for me. Plus by keeping the number of different additives it makes them easier since there are fewer variables.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Might want to look into some ca-10 Ive been bumping up my ca numbers with it

I was going to but thought I could do it with just a little base A change. Which I think will do it with this new base mix.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

So I did the calculations for the mix I have been using. The Jack's 5-12-26 with calcium nitrate and epson salts. Holy crap the numbers were way off. I went with someone elses mix. Big mistake. It runs the magnesium real high. So high the magnesium was higher than the calcium nitrate.

I also looked back at what I posted as to what I am feeding. And I forgot to add the magnesium sulfate.

Any way The amounts I put on page 2 should be discarded because it puts the calcium and magnesium out of balance. It will still grow weed but it is not ideal and is sort of bad.

So I am going to go back and figure out a better mix.

 

[soil margin]

Just got a chance to look through this thread. Nice pics man. Looking forward to more stuff.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

OK so I totally butchered my calculation. I use 24% for the available calcium in calcium nitrate and it should be 19%. I also used 20% for the magnesium when it should have been 9.7%.

So tomorrow I will redo the numbers. I wont redo the calculations since they were correct. So if you wanted to do the calculations you can use the formulas just use the 19% and 9.7% numbers instead.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

So here is what I had happening. To much magnesium.

With the new percentages for the mag and calcium I calculated what the PPM's were. According to Heads numbers and the Lucas formula the calcium should be 2 times the magnesium.

If you go with heads formula with GH nutes it comes out at 79 PPM for the calcium and 36 for the magnesium.

Under my old formula for Jack's where I used 10 ml of a concentrate of 880 grams per gallon and 10 ml of a concentrate of 580 ml gallon mix of calcium nitrate the calcium is 77 PPm and the magnesium was 39 PPM.

So the Jacks ran just a little heavy on the magnesium and the GH hit it almost exactly. I ran both of these with no problem for years.

Now I followed someone else's numbers and the magnesium was to high. It was running 13 PPM to high. That is a extra 33% more magnesium.

So If I drop the extra magnesium it would be back in balance. I still think I need to run it at a higher EC to keep the plants feed. So this is what I will try first. And it is what I ran yesterday.

Now for the new Chemgro 4-20-39 I can still get the calcium higher with out spiking the nitrogen. I will have to look closer at the other PPM's for the other nutrients in the mix.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Moving along. It is day seven of flower tonight.

Here they are on day one of flower.



And today on day seven.



Here is a picture of one branch tip in the middle of the screen. This is from one node seven days ago to six nodes tonight.



Here is one of the top nodes. All this growth is from one node. You can see the red stems seem to be clearing up.



Finally in the next picture you can see how far the top is above the screen. I may have to put another screen on the top. From the bottom of the bottom screen to the top of the top screen is five feet. With another screen it would be six feet.

In the back you can also see some of the colas are sticking out. I will have to get in and clip them back at some point soon.

 

[DunHav`nFun]

Whatcha gonna do with stretch bein another 3 weeks and you only got another ft. to the ceiling Icky.....?......Can yas circle those top colas like you did down on the screen ?.....anyways.....Glad you`re fine tuning your juice formula , and yeah.....most folks don`t realize that red/purpling stems/petioles signals the first signs of calcium deficiency , gladta see the new nodes bustin out green and healthy......so.....

Keep strokin …...DHF..... …..

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Whatcha gonna do with stretch bein another 3 weeks and you only got another ft. to the ceiling Icky.....?......Can yas circle those top colas like you did down on the screen ?.....anyways.....Glad you`re fine tuning your juice formula , and yeah.....most folks don`t realize that red/purpling stems/petioles signals the first signs of calcium deficiency , gladta see the new nodes bustin out green and healthy......so.....

Keep strokin …...DHF..... …..

I should be fine with the height. They will lean in a little to the light and I can angle them over on the screen to stop the upward growth. So instead they will grow at a angle and not straight up.

On the calcium I have been running numbers to see what will work best to increase the calcium with out jacking the nitrogen to much. Then it is on to testing it before I know what will work best. Just takes time to test. For now I will just keep running the Jack's while testing the Chemgro.

 

[swapmeet]

This leaving one node practice is interesting.... especially getting up over 6 nodes this quick into stretch... you just leave one node per branch, yet all the fans... How long before the flip do you trim and attach to the screens?

 

[infrasound70]

This is a great setup. As a newbie with only 1 grow under my belt I am amazed with this grow. It is a product of years of solid experience in growing. Subscribed!

 

[Ichabod Crane]

This leaving one node practice is interesting.... especially getting up over 6 nodes this quick into stretch... you just leave one node per branch, yet all the fans... How long before the flip do you trim and attach to the screens?

It is nothing more than a modified lollipop trim job.

The thinking is that if you have one fan feeding one growth site the extra should increase the growth. Which it does. Not only that but the quality goes up on the final product.

There are several reasons why the quality goes up. First is that you get the light to the tip. Instead of having the lower buds which are shaded you just have the tips.

Second I already mentioned. Saving the extra fans. If you lollipop you trim all those fans which the plant has to regrow again to feed the buds. So save that growth instead to feed to the best bud sites.

The last is that the hormones that suppress the lower bud sites on the branch just go to the roots. Since there are no buds to suppress these hormones have no effect.

I do this trimming right at the flip. I dont want any growth which could cause a side branch to form. But as you can see one formed on the branch tip on the picture I post yesterday.

The other thing you did not talk about is the heavy pruning I did. Look at the pictures from before it went onto the screen and then after they are on the screen. This heavy pruning puts the balance of the plant out. So it must grow more foliage in order to balance out again. I did not take just the bud sites. I took some rather large branches as well.

So with a abundance of extra roots the new growth gets every thing it needs from the roots since it is not growing roots.

So as for the quality I just sold some bud today to a dispensary that gave me a extra $200 because it was of higher quality than they normally get. This was the first time I sold there and they said they will take what ever I bring if it is like what I had tonight.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

This is a great setup. As a newbie with only 1 grow under my belt I am amazed with this grow. It is a product of years of solid experience in growing. Subscribed!

This set up is hard for new people as well as some older people to do. It is because most wont take the effort to trim heavily in the start. They fear that they will loose a large amount of yield.

I am all for high yield but quality matters more to me. To a extent I will go for quality as long as it does not destroy the yield. The other benefit is that harvest is a lot faster because of the larger buds.

Bud most people just dont trust themselves to do the heavy pruning.

I wish you luck if you try it.

 

[swapmeet]

It is nothing more than a modified lollipop trim job.

The thinking is that if you have one fan feeding one growth site the extra should increase the growth. Which it does. Not only that but the quality goes up on the final product.

There are several reasons why the quality goes up. First is that you get the light to the tip. Instead of having the lower buds which are shaded you just have the tips.

Second I already mentioned. Saving the extra fans. If you lollipop you trim all those fans which the plant has to regrow again to feed the buds. So save that growth instead to feed to the best bud sites.

The last is that the hormones that suppress the lower bud sites on the branch just go to the roots. Since there are no buds to suppress these hormones have no effect.

I do this trimming right at the flip. I dont want any growth which could cause a side branch to form. But as you can see one formed on the branch tip on the picture I post yesterday.

The other thing you did not talk about is the heavy pruning I did. Look at the pictures from before it went onto the screen and then after they are on the screen. This heavy pruning puts the balance of the plant out. So it must grow more foliage in order to balance out again. I did not take just the bud sites. I took some rather large branches as well.

So with a abundance of extra roots the new growth gets every thing it needs from the roots since it is not growing roots.

Hahaha trust me Icky, I took note of the heavy pruning... I do the same....the twist, for me, was the budsite pruning... Always innovation with you brother... And success to prove it... Instantiation trumps all theory and reading materials....

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Hahaha trust me Icky, I took note of the heavy pruning... I do the same....the twist, for me, was the budsite pruning... Always innovation with you brother... And success to prove it... Instantiation trumps all theory and reading materials....

That's a big word.