FluxCherry
Active member
i do notice bulking in flower with more/far reds. i also notice that it finished slower. this is plant specific. honestly all of it is. reds are like nitrogen. just another tool. not all plants like it.
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LED and BUD QUALITY
- Thread starter Tropical Sun
- Start date
Rocket Soul
Well-known member
I am reading your posts intently
So what exactly are you arguing? It seems like you are saying that far red causes loss of yield, period. If i understand correct you said it was only usefull for causing stretch and that it will cause loss of yield no matter what. Could you specify what you are arguing instead of what you are not arguing?
As for top tier: normally this would be judged by the quality of the academic work rather than by authority. You could also ask regarding this one and only paper you brought: what made the author make your cut of international acclaim? I have described a few of the issues i have with the methodology, it would only be fair for you to explain what made the author stand out so much that you qualify him as "professor of international aclaim"?
Ca++
Well-known member
That paper was an opening to the topic. Without a reasonable opening, the conversation couldn't of moved on. Bugbee has been added as a source twice, and indicates where the topic would go without any proof. He was even added to prove it's good, when he wasn't saying that. The outcome people want, can be a stronger part of decision making, than the truth.
All the evidence from outside sources, is telling us that sticking 730 in our main lights, is bad. We have the numbers behind how bad, and explanations of why it is that way.
To counter this, the FR is good team, have expressed their desires.
Isn't that about right?
There are a couple of side topics. These revolve around FR for the uses it does have. I myself use FR. However the problem remains, that while people desire it in the main lights, cannabis brands will keep putting it in there. They don't make lights for plants, they make lights growers buy. The vast majority of which, want everything they can get. It's psychology shaping our lighting choices, not plant physiology.
Obviously, most readers want to push back at 730 not being what they want it to be. They want their one light to have everything possible in it, because that must be best. That is a different type of science topic though.
What HID has, that LED doesn't. The UK police, with no growing background, call HIDs something quite different. The press releases here, call them heat lamps. So technical correctness aside, what is the outstanding difference between HID and LED
840nm NIR which causes stretch like 730 just dreams about. It is not an inactive wavelength.
All the evidence from outside sources, is telling us that sticking 730 in our main lights, is bad. We have the numbers behind how bad, and explanations of why it is that way.
To counter this, the FR is good team, have expressed their desires.
Isn't that about right?
There are a couple of side topics. These revolve around FR for the uses it does have. I myself use FR. However the problem remains, that while people desire it in the main lights, cannabis brands will keep putting it in there. They don't make lights for plants, they make lights growers buy. The vast majority of which, want everything they can get. It's psychology shaping our lighting choices, not plant physiology.
Obviously, most readers want to push back at 730 not being what they want it to be. They want their one light to have everything possible in it, because that must be best. That is a different type of science topic though.
What HID has, that LED doesn't. The UK police, with no growing background, call HIDs something quite different. The press releases here, call them heat lamps. So technical correctness aside, what is the outstanding difference between HID and LED
840nm NIR which causes stretch like 730 just dreams about. It is not an inactive wavelength.
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exoticrobotic
Well-known member
These research papers and spectrum graphs are a load of bollocks.
Has anyone independently verified them?
How long have leds been around and they still dont work...
They would work great but just need more x, more y, more z. or equally ridiculously more CalMag
Leds don't equate to well grown cannabis at all. Unless you want single stemmed low yielding brown spotted lower trichome granola looking crack weed.
Save yourself money, buy hps and grow some large satisfying buds.
Does Bruce even grow or smoke bud?
Where's his pics?
Has anyone independently verified them?
How long have leds been around and they still dont work...
They would work great but just need more x, more y, more z. or equally ridiculously more CalMag
Leds don't equate to well grown cannabis at all. Unless you want single stemmed low yielding brown spotted lower trichome granola looking crack weed.
Save yourself money, buy hps and grow some large satisfying buds.
Does Bruce even grow or smoke bud?
Where's his pics?
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exoticrobotic
Well-known member
A troll i am not.
A lover of Cannabis i am.
Here's a better more relevant photo
HPS bud
A lover of Cannabis i am.
Here's a better more relevant photo
HPS bud
exoticrobotic
Well-known member
Not a single brown led 'calmag' spot in sight.
Show me more healthy led grown plant please? crooked8 need not apply with his NA$A budget
Not another troll pic
Show me more healthy led grown plant please? crooked8 need not apply with his NA$A budget
Not another troll pic
Hey bro.
Sweet buds no.doubt. do hps grow killer sure, led, cmh, sil, ppl, mh, sun, plasma etc. Sure they do! Whats the Best then? Well all depends on genetics, planthealth, nutrients... and lights.
Back in 2013 i had a friend that grew Awesome bud under blurple, was i good .. ? It was fire!!! I Think like with Everything it takes time to learn (in this case lights) before your dialed in.
A grower from here once said : good genetics can be grown in shitty conditions and still be fire.. I would agere in this.
As some of u mention earlier virus is a Really serious thing and can fuck Everything up. So all in all I know lights are crucial, but all the other parameters are too.
I have seen, and smoked both led hps cmh , and all got me great High. Use the light you like, and be open to New inventions.
❤
exoticrobotic
Well-known member
blurple results were imo better than current mainstream led lights.
I can't grow decent looking buds with current leds lights.
I can't grow decent looking buds with current leds lights.
exoticrobotic
Well-known member
Sure, it does all depend on all of those but there is an issue with the lights adding undue stress.
Is it heat, spectrum what?
No one knows but pound to a penny if i grew my plants under leds i'd get plants looking less healthy with the brown spots.
exoticrobotic
Well-known member
I am open to new inventions but i am more open to results.
exoticrobotic
Well-known member
Lol good one Ca.
Have you managed to adapt after 98 pages?
Show me your led plant pics to back it up?
exoticrobotic
Well-known member
Is there a led unit that has all the bells and whistles needed?
exoticrobotic
Well-known member
I see it more a case of industry pushing this tech on growers due to the vast profits buying cheap chips from China and then selling it on.
It's much more expensive generally to the end home grower and the results just don't add up unless you are selling the chips/units.
You end up spending 3 or 4 times the amount you would've spent on hids and end up then having to fork out for calmag, pH pens, far red, near red, incandescent bulbs and the like in a fruitless attempt to work out and rectify wtf has happened to the health and yield of your plants.
I love new tech but it has to offer me something extra vs what i already have or make my life easier.
The commercial LED's that are being installed en mass, are not using cheap chinese diodes. In my replacement T5 tubes I have over my fish tanks, I have chinese diodes, phillips, Osram, and custom with high output osram diodes. The difference in light between them all of comparable wattage, is VAST. The chinese putting out half the light of the osrams while drawing more current and 6 degrees hotter lamps, the osrams beating the phillips, as they make chips so makes sense, and the custom high output diodes from osram are WAY brighter than the others again.. The chips make a huge difference and most commercial LED fixtures being rolled out are using either the best bin horticulture "h" grade chips from Osram or Samsung, and as a long term HID fan, I have to admit the LED tech has come to maturity now, at least from the big diode manufacturers.
Even in my fish tanks I can grow amazing plants now with standard consumer 6500k flood lamps, cheap as chips, or t5 replacement tubes and I get light as good as mega expensive branded lights.
But with any light dialing in is key, and good genetics that's clean. Else you'd just be pissing in the wind trying to figure things out...I have mates pulling off amazing grows now under the new age LEDS, nanolux, fluence and DIY etc...One thing they are doing is not going for the energy saving, but the more light for less heat and just almost matching wattage to what they used to have. Then with clean genetics and CO2 and full climate control, dialing it in and pushing it, and then repeating it.. If stuff dirty it does complicate dialing in somewhat....and makes repeating results a complete headache.
Even in my fish tanks I can grow amazing plants now with standard consumer 6500k flood lamps, cheap as chips, or t5 replacement tubes and I get light as good as mega expensive branded lights.
But with any light dialing in is key, and good genetics that's clean. Else you'd just be pissing in the wind trying to figure things out...I have mates pulling off amazing grows now under the new age LEDS, nanolux, fluence and DIY etc...One thing they are doing is not going for the energy saving, but the more light for less heat and just almost matching wattage to what they used to have. Then with clean genetics and CO2 and full climate control, dialing it in and pushing it, and then repeating it.. If stuff dirty it does complicate dialing in somewhat....and makes repeating results a complete headache.
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Ca++
Well-known member
They make what we want to buy. If LED didn't work, making more wouldn't improve sales. Overall, it's fine. When you ask if any have the bells and whistles yet, you are playing into the game. Bells and whistles don't grow plants. That 100w E27 warm white does though. If you want to chase after a magic formula, they will sell you one. However the LM301h is all you actually need. Most other things, are just buying problems.
I think that e27 thread is longer than this one. Lots of reasonable grows in there. Lots all over the forum. Last problem thread I saw was HID. There has always been good and bad grows here. It's an advice line to many.
Of the failed adopters I see, it's mostly that they had a lot more light than they thought. They wouldn't accept the feed needed bumping up a good 50%, and so turned the light down. People are fearful of the EC levels needed. At first, I couldn't see how I could make a feed so strong, that my HID knowledge didn't say was deadly. Many folks just Increased the N as they typically had too much P already, and K is alright at just about anything. They would also need more Mg, but the small stuff was alright. However, they didn't actually know they were doing this. They thought it was Calcium they were adding (calmag)
I think that e27 thread is longer than this one. Lots of reasonable grows in there. Lots all over the forum. Last problem thread I saw was HID. There has always been good and bad grows here. It's an advice line to many.
Of the failed adopters I see, it's mostly that they had a lot more light than they thought. They wouldn't accept the feed needed bumping up a good 50%, and so turned the light down. People are fearful of the EC levels needed. At first, I couldn't see how I could make a feed so strong, that my HID knowledge didn't say was deadly. Many folks just Increased the N as they typically had too much P already, and K is alright at just about anything. They would also need more Mg, but the small stuff was alright. However, they didn't actually know they were doing this. They thought it was Calcium they were adding (calmag)
You can see amazing rooms on instagram....the leaders of the pack so to say....full climate control, they have their own tricks sure..but one thing will be common, the quality of lights, the high PPFD, the lack of viral/viroid infection..
www.instagram.com
look at that account...run in run out..trees..minimal veg time....different medias, same result..different genetics same result (though one would select genetics that suit ones growing style). Now you tell me LEDS are inferior. I used to be HID all the way, but in the last 3 years the tech of the LEDS has just reached that point where if you know what to do with them, HID's now, square sine wave and double enders and all, they are being left behind.
But one thing I can't stress enough is if you see these beautiful LED rooms, and plants are all carbon copies of each other and stacked top to bottom, that is clean plants, in high PPFD. At the end of the day you are just trying to mimic the sun, which maxes the light meters in full summer, so ...no replacement for displacement. More light means more mass of more grade if everything else is met. HID, LED or sun.. but if abiotic stress factors, or wrong diet or watering not dialed, or viral/viroid disease, your plants go south as soon as you crank up the light, no matter what source.
But all interesting the tweaking of the spectrums regarding different growth cycles, but at the end of the day the basics will always be the main stuff deciding success or failure, top grade or mids, more than enough or not enough weight. My best bud has always been in composted animal shit, in mid summer in greenhouse with maxing temps and sun, with light dep, or not. Though at scale I grow hydro, the mid summer crops trump all others, including LED and HID rooms...we are always at the end of the day just trying to mimic what the sun gives us. we have not yet found better LOL.
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look at that account...run in run out..trees..minimal veg time....different medias, same result..different genetics same result (though one would select genetics that suit ones growing style). Now you tell me LEDS are inferior. I used to be HID all the way, but in the last 3 years the tech of the LEDS has just reached that point where if you know what to do with them, HID's now, square sine wave and double enders and all, they are being left behind.
But one thing I can't stress enough is if you see these beautiful LED rooms, and plants are all carbon copies of each other and stacked top to bottom, that is clean plants, in high PPFD. At the end of the day you are just trying to mimic the sun, which maxes the light meters in full summer, so ...no replacement for displacement. More light means more mass of more grade if everything else is met. HID, LED or sun.. but if abiotic stress factors, or wrong diet or watering not dialed, or viral/viroid disease, your plants go south as soon as you crank up the light, no matter what source.
But all interesting the tweaking of the spectrums regarding different growth cycles, but at the end of the day the basics will always be the main stuff deciding success or failure, top grade or mids, more than enough or not enough weight. My best bud has always been in composted animal shit, in mid summer in greenhouse with maxing temps and sun, with light dep, or not. Though at scale I grow hydro, the mid summer crops trump all others, including LED and HID rooms...we are always at the end of the day just trying to mimic what the sun gives us. we have not yet found better LOL.
Yes as a consultant, and as a producer of nutrients I have to deal with this a fair amount. Total nutrient requirements can go way up, as metabolism climbs, generally one has to run higher EC's and with higher water requirements..though if factoring in infection, stuffs all over the place depending on load and how f'd root production has become.
