There are still a large percentage of commercial grows running hid. They will still be available for years to come. Led has turned this tide because it is more efficient, productive and proved to increase cardinal parameter #1 light intensity.
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LED and BUD QUALITY
- Thread starter Tropical Sun
- Start date
Yes, but your limited to 160 or 230 or maybe more if n the newer diodes ? lm per sec from each diode, it won't matter if your panel is 1000 or 5000w, the diodes still have a threshold which they cant surpass, usually very low cuz that's what the powers that be made it fir
so you can't go to any intensity like HIDs or even cfl, where you can go from 150w to 1000w and even 3000w non horti hid bulbs.
so you can't go to any intensity like HIDs or even cfl, where you can go from 150w to 1000w and even 3000w non horti hid bulbs.
Just be accurate so new people who don't understand light physics won't get it wrong, I know how you love the facts..
LEDs didn't increase intensity, if anything they lowered it substantially, they increased total light in space, which is a 2nd reading after the 1st overall output reading of each light source (remember you cannot add light sources, only count them individually.)
Edit - output reading is intensity, light per sec.
total light in space or ppfd (regarding LEDs) is the numbers they give you always, wonder why ?
simply cuz they can't total their output reading, not possible to + individual light sources in a total output reading, you must count each one, the highest one determine your highest intensity light source.
This is so basic really what's so hard to understand ?
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You are the one who does not understand. In ANY given space, we can deliver a higher ppfd with leds than we can with hid. We increased intensity. Ive explained this to you literally at least 10x, this is why people consider you a “troll”. Because you cant grasp that smaller output than HPS bulb diodes collectively matter lol. We all understand that an HPS bulb has greater output than a single diode. What matters is how this impacts a canopy. In the case of leds vs hps they literally embarrass hps. If you continue to deny this scientific fact, you are just being stubborn. Plants measure light in photons. They dont look to the sky and ask themselves “wait? Is this all coming from one intense source or many?”. The science is real. Its easy to measure. This is a moronic thing to debate.
Edit: hid producers make their ppfd readings known just like leds.
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Ca++
Well-known member
Dude, that's just absolute rubbish. Why can't you add light sources. You saying that putting more lights in my room is pointless, because only the first one will work? Do you think plants can only see one light source, so a 200 LED array over 1 plants is a waste of 199 LEDs? I can't see any logic shining through here. You are fucked dude.
don't worry,ass snake has been banned again and his ip added to the spam list so hopefully the last we'll see of him/it
It's actually about light sprectrum- usuable light by the plant. Bulbs and LED's spectrum tend to drift over time. You can add all the light you want to a space but if it's not the correct spectrum, the plants can't use it. HPS are quite inefficient, as plants can only utilize a small part of the light band it produces. You can dial in LED's more correctly, so most if not all of the light produced can be efficiently used by the plants.
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The main wavelengths of light that plants use is between 4-700nm, thats what PPFD is based on, a new term ePPFD is being utilized to include lower and higher nm ranges because they are finding that plants use this light also. What spectrum of light are you referring to that plants arent using? Lights arent typically producing lots of light above 780nm or below 400nm ranges.
WingzHauser
Active member
English speakers who understand plants are rare, so I'm used to deciphering incoherence in written form when reading anything related to plants.
I personally don't acknowledge the greenhouse studies. Why? Because I have strains that turn skunky after 2 weeks in the window sill, after zero skunk under Led. That's my proof. Green glass blocks ~10% of UV. A greenhouse should get plenty of UV. The best herb I've smoked was greenhouse grown. Sweet at harvest, sour diesel after cure. Caked in resin. Keyword caked..
Solacure wants you to buy their bulb. Instead of the cheaper ones. They are afraid of Samsung creating the 280nm diode. They attribute everything to 280nm yet link studies to UVA trials, and swear identical bulbs from other brands aren't identical. But don't throw the baby (dank) out with the dirty bath water (cannabis scene). Many people have observed metabolic/phenotypic changes under led.
For any other crop you have a list of metabolites responsible for flavor. The list falls into 2 categories, primary (sugars, and organic acids) and secondary (esters etc). The most important quality quantifier in Cannabis is retronasal flavor. Effect preference is subjective. Inhale is foreplay. Taste buds are overwhelmed. Retronasal flavor perception is synonymous with Cannabis quality, the topic at hand.
The means by which these crop specific quality-defining metabolites are derived is well understood. If a Cannabis plant has retronasal honey "terps" for example, sufficient iron is important to that cultivar as norisoprenoids derive from carotenoids, the result of secondary metabolism.
It's easy to see how quality is affected by inputs in this regard. Light is no exception when it comes to inputs. Iron is directly related to the absorbable light spectrum. Therefore if an operation growing a honey strain switches to a light that does not signal carotenoid production/iron uptake, they do not have the honey strain, they have unprocessed distillate, bud fit for the legal markets at best. And if a Skunk strain relies on photo-oxidation, yet gets no UVR8 activation, is it Skunk? No. Not by the quality standards being developed, that will inevitably tie production method to variety.
Terroir: The effects of inputs on chemotypic expression.
The desirable terroir of Cannabis is that of oxidation vs antioxidants.
"Treat them bad, they'll grow better."
The Cannabis community can't seem to agree on the right God, even though it's rather black and white. Does stress create desirable Cannabis metabolites or not? Is Cannabis more like a tomato than Ca++ or even I want to accept? All I see these days is underfed commercial Cannabis types with claims of over feeding. While commercial tomato is pushed to EC of 8 or 9 to increase flavor. Look at every LED grow, including your own past runs.
Googling "nutrient burn" brings up zero non cannabis websites. Most led growers will agree nute burn ruins flavor.. Hmmm.. Every Led grower thinks they have excess nutes when they see burn..
Foliar Symptomology, Nutrient Content, Yield, and Secondary Metabolite Variability of Cannabis Grown Hydroponically with Different Single-Element Nutrient Deficiencies
In controlled environment production systems, Cannabis sativa (hereafter cannabis) is a commodity with high nutrient demands due to prolific growth under optimized environmental conditions. Since nutrient deficiencies can reduce yield and quality, cultivators need tools to rapidly detect and...
www.mdpi.com
Stop reading my post and go back to that Mdpi.com link if your led bud sucks. Look really close at all the "Led light/nute burn".
Imagine feeding a plant like an athlete training to jog in outer space. Imagine heavy metal oxidation on plants incapable of a heavy metal oxidation response. Imagine plants without microbial stress. Now imagine a plant with no light stress either. It will have no muscle. Diet and exercise are important.. Or pills and photoshop.. Today's standards..
Many led grows can't even produce the hay smell under their current fertigation. I remember when dispensaries/legal grows used to smell strongly of green leaf volatiles (now they smell like organic pesticides). I have grown plenty of Led Cannabis that should be capable of protecting against photooxidation, yet the signaling was not present.
This is ~1.25 grams from my first led grow 3 years ago. This bud had been sitting in my office <45% rh >80°F for 3 years.
Still "moist". Because of excess lipids. Now you'll see why that early Led bud was for display purposes only: The resin wasn't caked. Cured resin should resemble cake frosting. These lipids are still precursors. All interesting Cannabis metabolites derive from lipids, the jasmonic/hexanol/hexanoic pathway, same pathway as grass, skunk, cheese, cannabinoids. The Amazon led lights produced the proper lipids, but did not derive the proper derivatives from it. My first led grow did not even get you high, not a single strain in the entire room. Nutrition becomes unbalanced very quickly under Amazon leds. Sap soil and tissue testing is all the rage amongst hobby growers the past 10 years or so.. And the target ratios make zero sense for Led cannabis.
Tldr: LED is like your skinny friend who wants to start working out with you. He needs to work harder and eat more GNC bottles to hang with your effortless gains. He'll probably fuck up and take some weird calcium supplements that tie up his protein powder each and be a wimp forever.
I bet most led bud tests high in cbg and low in cbn. If your Led bud sucks don't worry it just means your plants are too healthy and stress free. Like a coma patient on cbd.
Most people lie about the quality of Cannabis they smoke btw. Pretty obvious when the go to claims of "over feeding" are met with dimmer switches. No one is swapping from hid to led with the same nute ratios and "killing it" in both instances. I'm not afraid to smoke other people's Led herb, I'll tell them straight up why it sucks if it sucks, and offer a blowjob in exchange for tips if its better than mine. Would've saved me alot of trial and error.
Photosynthetically active radiation. "Eh, it makes da plants grow, that's its action, right?" Meanwhile a thousand different colors sounds and words just floated across the air into your computer monitor. Magic invisible air data should not be viewed so subjectively.
Attachments
English speakers who understand plants are rare, so I'm used to deciphering incoherence in written form when reading anything related to plants.
I personally don't acknowledge the greenhouse studies. Why? Because I have strains that turn skunky after 2 weeks in the window sill, after zero skunk under Led. That's my proof. Green glass blocks ~10% of UV. A greenhouse should get plenty of UV. The best herb I've smoked was greenhouse grown. Sweet at harvest, sour diesel after cure. Caked in resin. Keyword caked..
Solacure wants you to buy their bulb. Instead of the cheaper ones. They are afraid of Samsung creating the 280nm diode. They attribute everything to 280nm yet link studies to UVA trials, and swear identical bulbs from other brands aren't identical. But don't throw the baby (dank) out with the dirty bath water (cannabis scene). Many people have observed metabolic/phenotypic changes under led.
For any other crop you have a list of metabolites responsible for flavor. The list falls into 2 categories, primary (sugars, and organic acids) and secondary (esters etc). The most important quality quantifier in Cannabis is retronasal flavor. Effect preference is subjective. Inhale is foreplay. Taste buds are overwhelmed. Retronasal flavor perception is synonymous with Cannabis quality, the topic at hand.
View attachment 18847776
The means by which these crop specific quality-defining metabolites are derived is well understood. If a Cannabis plant has retronasal honey "terps" for example, sufficient iron is important to that cultivar as norisoprenoids derive from carotenoids, the result of secondary metabolism.
It's easy to see how quality is affected by inputs in this regard. Light is no exception when it comes to inputs. Iron is directly related to the absorbable light spectrum. Therefore if an operation growing a honey strain switches to a light that does not signal carotenoid production/iron uptake, they do not have the honey strain, they have unprocessed distillate, bud fit for the legal markets at best. And if a Skunk strain relies on photo-oxidation, yet gets no UVR8 activation, is it Skunk? No. Not by the quality standards being developed, that will inevitably tie production method to variety.
Terroir: The effects of inputs on chemotypic expression.
The desirable terroir of Cannabis is that of oxidation vs antioxidants.
"Treat them bad, they'll grow better."
The Cannabis community can't seem to agree on the right God, even though it's rather black and white. Does stress create desirable Cannabis metabolites or not? Is Cannabis more like a tomato than Ca++ or even I want to accept? All I see these days is underfed commercial Cannabis types with claims of over feeding. While commercial tomato is pushed to EC of 8 or 9 to increase flavor. Look at every LED grow, including your own past runs.
Googling "nutrient burn" brings up zero non cannabis websites. Most led growers will agree nute burn ruins flavor.. Hmmm.. Every Led grower thinks they have excess nutes when they see burn..
Foliar Symptomology, Nutrient Content, Yield, and Secondary Metabolite Variability of Cannabis Grown Hydroponically with Different Single-Element Nutrient Deficiencies
In controlled environment production systems, Cannabis sativa (hereafter cannabis) is a commodity with high nutrient demands due to prolific growth under optimized environmental conditions. Since nutrient deficiencies can reduce yield and quality, cultivators need tools to rapidly detect and...
Stop reading my post and go back to that Mdpi.com link if your led bud sucks. Look really close at all the "Led light/nute burn".
Imagine feeding a plant like an athlete training to jog in outer space. Imagine heavy metal oxidation on plants incapable of a heavy metal oxidation response. Imagine plants without microbial stress. Now imagine a plant with no light stress either. It will have no muscle. Diet and exercise are important.. Or pills and photoshop.. Today's standards..
Many led grows can't even produce the hay smell under their current fertigation. I remember when dispensaries/legal grows used to smell strongly of green leaf volatiles (now they smell like organic pesticides). I have grown plenty of Led Cannabis that should be capable of protecting against photooxidation, yet the signaling was not present.
This is ~1.25 grams from my first led grow 3 years ago. This bud had been sitting in my office <45% rh >80°F for 3 years.
Still "moist". Because of excess lipids. Now you'll see why that early Led bud was for display purposes only: The resin wasn't caked. Cured resin should resemble cake frosting. These lipids are still precursors. All interesting Cannabis metabolites derive from lipids, the jasmonic/hexanol/hexanoic pathway, same pathway as grass, skunk, cheese, cannabinoids. The Amazon led lights produced the proper lipids, but did not derive the proper derivatives from it. My first led grow did not even get you high, not a single strain in the entire room. Nutrition becomes unbalanced very quickly under Amazon leds. Sap soil and tissue testing is all the rage amongst hobby growers the past 10 years or so.. And the target ratios make zero sense for Led cannabis.
Tldr: LED is like your skinny friend who wants to start working out with you. He needs to work harder and eat more GNC bottles to hang with your effortless gains. He'll probably fuck up and take some weird calcium supplements that tie up his protein powder each and be a wimp forever.
I bet most led bud tests high in cbg and low in cbn. If your Led bud sucks don't worry it just means your plants are too healthy and stress free. Like a coma patient on cbd.
Most people lie about the quality of Cannabis they smoke btw. Pretty obvious when the go to claims of "over feeding" are met with dimmer switches. No one is swapping from hid to led with the same nute ratios and "killing it" in both instances. I'm not afraid to smoke other people's Led herb, I'll tell them straight up why it sucks if it sucks, and offer a blowjob in exchange for tips if its better than mine. Would've saved me alot of trial and error.
Photosynthetically active radiation. "Eh, it makes da plants grow, that's its action, right?" Meanwhile a thousand different colors sounds and words just floated across the air into your computer monitor. Magic invisible air data should not be viewed so subjectively.
This is absolute nonsense.
You know a lot!
Corpselover Fat
Active member
They are too used to deciphering incohorence me thinks.
I got it right on these 2 flowered between HLG/Mars LED.
You bred their colors so beautifully, any tips?
It's not consistent under LED. Veg is where you can figure out how to get them to a preferable color before flower. Once that's done then onto figuring out how much ca/mag to add keeping them green for at least until week 6. That depends on flowering time
It all comes from a wealth of experience. If there's a novice here, it's easy to get flustered even by following the instructions.
GF-Z
Active member
How many buckets of foliar silica were used for 1 plant ? =)
