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LED and BUD QUALITY
- Thread starter Tropical Sun
- Start date
LED tree lacks that extra gear that’s sends you to the next level …kinda meh for effects … but yield and electricity cost outweigh that to 98% of people
they have been good to veg with after figuring out how to use them
I have a run of Autos to try under LEDs so time will tell
somewhat
all the best and grow well
Dequilo
Ca++
Well-known member
There is a big gap in what's understood. Leaving a few reasonable explanations. I might as well make one up myself.
Sugars are moving around in these twigs, and a few things are needed for steps in the conversion. Before the colour is made, and fixes. One is oxygen from photosynthesis. The twigs have higher brix than the leaves, which in turn are better adapted to expelling the oxygen. Survival advantage to leaf.
Excess sugar is less likely if the plant has it's P. In fact, low P causes higher brix. There is a strong relationship between the sugar sat around, and it's use, which P and temperature are good regulators of. These are all pointers seen in the last page or so of replies.
There is no text I can point to. Just a sea of knowledge with puzzle pieces scattered about.
Same genetics different phenos diferant areas of the room. Same feed 1.3ec. Same PH 6.4
This plant is directly under CMH.. She just started getting alternating RO feeds.
This plant is directly under HLG. This one no RO is needed.
This plant is directly under CMH.. She just started getting alternating RO feeds.
This plant is directly under HLG. This one no RO is needed.
Deleted user 90433
Member
I can agree with you on that,looking good doesn't mean it is good,but with 6 different strains it is a average ppfd as some burn easier than others,once I get amber trichomes I know its close
Growers forget that not all PPFD is the same.
Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density obviously counts photon density. However LEDs – especially many commercial fixtures on the market – have much higher levels of blue photons than HPS, and there can also be large differences in spectra between individual LEDs.
Remember, a 400nm blue photon carries 50% more energy than a 600nm red photon. That means 400 PPFD of blue carries the same energy as 600 PPFD of red.
There are also "hidden" photons that include UVA and Far Red, because these are either not measured by many PAR meters, or they are not counted towards PAR (and PPFD) in the 400-700nm range.
I run my lights around 800-900 PPFD at the top of the canopy, but you can add another 100+ PPFD to that figure if you count the 10% Far Red and 1% UVA.
A higher percentage of blue light for the same PPFD will have more potential to stress plants. The photo-oxidative damage sometimes seen under high amounts of red light is due to chloroplast saturation, so that is a slightly different cause and effect.
Probably because you are delivering more light to the lower canopy where it is the ideal intensity. It sounds obvious, but plant canopies are 3D, not 2D. Which is why side and under-canopy lighting can make such a difference to yield.
Deleted user 90433
Member
Only c02 I use are mushroom bags so I can't go really expect much higher without bottled c02
Ca++
Well-known member
PPFD isn't a count of photons. It is the energy.
PPFD is a measure of energy, using energy units such as Watts or Joules.
Changing colour doesn't effect the energy present. The energy present is 400 or 600. What changes, is the photon count. To reach the same PPFD, it takes less blues than reds.
I dont wanna go ten rounds on this but simply stated that is not correct.
Ppfd: “the number of photosynthetically active photons that fall on a given surface each second”
One blue photon indeed carries more energy than a red. Wavelength and energy per photon is proportional.
Ppfd is measured in umols/m/s; how many photons land on a certain area per second. Umol is a plain number, not a measure of energy.
Look up the definition on google if you like.
All the best and respectfully
Ca++
Well-known member
You are not wrong. Which is quite embarrassing, and deserves a long post to explain how I got out the wrong side of the bed. But.. Oh wellI dont wanna go ten rounds on this but simply stated that is not correct.
Ppfd: “the number of photosynthetically active photons that fall on a given surface each second”
One blue photon indeed carries more energy than a red. Wavelength and energy per photon is proportional.
Ppfd is measured in umols/m/s; how many photons land on a certain area per second. Umol is a plain number, not a measure of energy.
Look up the definition on google if you like.
All the best and respectfully
Brother Nature
Well-known member
I've recently been running the same clones under a 1m sq CMH (320w, 3000k) setup and a 1.2m sq LED (640w, 3500k, 5000k, IR), same feed. Clones are Sour Diesel, Phantom Cookies crosses, and some back domina crosses.
So far the CMH plants are actually doing better in most aspects, as much as I hate to say it. Resin production does look better with LED, as does the bud density, but that makes sense using twice the wattage. The CMH plants do have better internodal spacing, are filling out better, have a much happier green look to them, and even smell better.
The enviromental factors are pretty much the same in each tent, with the CMH being slightly less humid and slightly hotter.
I'm really interested to see the smoke results of the test, I will try to post photos when I have the ability.
I've run the SD under LED's and outside before and its a great smoke with both methods, the outdoor being the preffered method, but both poducing stellar results.
I don't feel the difference is going to be something your average consumer will notice, but I do bet there's going to be a noticeable difference in the end product for those of us who do notice the sublities in our final product.
So far the CMH plants are actually doing better in most aspects, as much as I hate to say it. Resin production does look better with LED, as does the bud density, but that makes sense using twice the wattage. The CMH plants do have better internodal spacing, are filling out better, have a much happier green look to them, and even smell better.
The enviromental factors are pretty much the same in each tent, with the CMH being slightly less humid and slightly hotter.
I'm really interested to see the smoke results of the test, I will try to post photos when I have the ability.
I've run the SD under LED's and outside before and its a great smoke with both methods, the outdoor being the preffered method, but both poducing stellar results.
I don't feel the difference is going to be something your average consumer will notice, but I do bet there's going to be a noticeable difference in the end product for those of us who do notice the sublities in our final product.
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Where on earth did you get that idea?
I mean, it's in the name!
PPFD = Photosynthetic PHOTON Flux density.
Ie: The density of photons in the 400-700nm range that fall on 1m2 each second
Specifically measured in umol (micromoles) of photons!
EDIT: OK, Rocket beat me to it. At least you now agree with us. Fair enough.
CharlesU Farley
Well-known member
As Fonzie on the US television sitcom Happy Days in the '80s used to say, correctamundo!
I almost always learn something from reading your posts, thank you.All the best and respectfully
Good quote Sir!!
Kimes
Well-known member
I tend to push even the seedlings with strong dose of light from the beginning with no ill effects.
in comparison, was bright blue skies today, metered with my photon gadget the spring sun is abt 6000K and 1000ish ppfd.. any and all plants outside easily flourish with that without extra co2.. As the temps rise the world just explodes to green everywhere in a few weeks time.
with high power leds i find little extra temps and nutes to be beneficial. Only time with issues with leds were with coconut coir. Not so much with MH or HPS.
Still learning so I might be full of it though..
in comparison, was bright blue skies today, metered with my photon gadget the spring sun is abt 6000K and 1000ish ppfd.. any and all plants outside easily flourish with that without extra co2.. As the temps rise the world just explodes to green everywhere in a few weeks time.
with high power leds i find little extra temps and nutes to be beneficial. Only time with issues with leds were with coconut coir. Not so much with MH or HPS.
Still learning so I might be full of it though..
All good, its refreshing to see anyone here or online reacting well, much love and props
CharlesU Farley
Well-known member
I thought the Albert Einstein quote I used to use was insightful, till I read that one fron Nevil down in the Rabbit Hole.
greyfader
Well-known member
i just thought i would throw in a comment about photon energy. in the pic below i was in the middle of changing out the bulbs on these two plants. one was still all 5000k and one was 2700k with incandescent.
i have a par meter and it showed that i lost approx 50 ppfd at the change-over to 2700k from 5000k.
this is without changing height.
i have a par meter and it showed that i lost approx 50 ppfd at the change-over to 2700k from 5000k.
this is without changing height.
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