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Leafs and shoots turning nearly paper white

southpaw

Member
Whew... okay, deep breaths everybody.

One. T5s, under optimal growing conditions with healthy plants and good ventilation, belong no more than three inches away from the tops. Your plants will not burn unless the tips of their leaves are touching the bulbs. 1 inch might have been cutting it close, and you may not have been getting good airflow between the bulbs and the tops, but that is not the cause here. For right now though, with your plants suffering lockout symptoms, I'd go ahead and raise the lights. No point forcing growth when the plant is stressed.

Two. Nothing about the yellowing pattern here says Mg deficiency. It started at the tops of your plants and at the growth tips, and also is yellowing out your leaves from the base to the tip. Mg makes leaves chlorotic from the edges inward (between the veins), and tends to affect old leaves first.

That stuff aside.

Was your "flower soil" preferted in any way? Even if it wasn't, you used products that in all likelihood shot P levels way over where they need to be. Bio Root contains P from rock phosphate, and all worm casting products contain P because worms enrich this element greatly with their digestion. There is really no reason to use a "root stimulant" on plants this young anyhow, and all that P has locked iron uptake at the rootzone.

My .02.

A quick fix would be to get them out of that overferted soil, and transplanted into a fresh mix, preferably something very, very light on nutes but with a good organic worm casting. They are just big enough that I could see them surviving a transplant, although I'm always leery of transplanting young plants with underdeveloped root balls.

If you decide against that, find a B1 product with iron, or better yet a kelp product, and foliar feed them with a very dilute spray. This won't fix the rootzone imbalance, but it will give them a quick shot in the arm of iron. As for watering, a B1/ iron/ zinc mix at no more than half the recommended label dose, and with runoff to about the volume of the container. Make sure the PH of the water is right around 6.5 to 7. This will leech the soil of some of that excess P.

Hope this helps. Your plants will be just fine. :joint:
 

ericsson

Member
Thanks for taking a peek shouth!

Whew... okay, deep breaths everybody.

One. T5s, under optimal growing conditions with healthy plants and good ventilation, belong no more than three inches away from the tops. Your plants will not burn unless the tips of their leaves are touching the bulbs. 1 inch might have been cutting it close, and you may not have been getting good airflow between the bulbs and the tops, but that is not the cause here. For right now though, with your plants suffering lockout symptoms, I'd go ahead and raise the lights. No point forcing growth when the plant is stressed.

Like I wrote somewhere earlier, I screwed-up and my light's are 36W T8 instead of T5, but they're really not giving that much heat (I rested the thermo / hygro and will know exactly today), plus I've raised them do about 8"+ on wednesday.
Two. Nothing about the yellowing pattern here says Mg deficiency. It started at the tops of your plants and at the growth tips, and also is yellowing out your leaves from the base to the tip. Mg makes leaves chlorotic from the edges inward (between the veins), and tends to affect old leaves first.

That stuff aside.
FUCK! I was pretty convinced that it could be the Mg def. and gave them dolomited, hope it won't bump up the pH even higher and make to lock up harder to flush out..
Was your "flower soil" preferted in any way? Even if it wasn't, you used products that in all likelihood shot P levels way over where they need to be. Bio Root contains P from rock phosphate, and all worm casting products contain P because worms enrich this element greatly with their digestion. There is really no reason to use a "root stimulant" on plants this young anyhow, and all that P has locked iron uptake at the rootzone.
No prefert of the soil mix - all I did was add 30% perlite and about 10% hydroton. As for the GHE "Bio Roots", according to the chart it should only be used in weeks 1-3, so I followed the chart and was hoping it would give and "extra hand" for the freshly rooted clones - is that bad thinking? When would you suggest using the Bio Roots?
My .02.

A quick fix would be to get them out of that overferted soil, and transplanted into a fresh mix, preferably something very, very light on nutes but with a good organic worm casting. They are just big enough that I could see them surviving a transplant, although I'm always leery of transplanting young plants with underdeveloped root balls.

If you decide against that, find a B1 product with iron, or better yet a kelp product, and foliar feed them with a very dilute spray. This won't fix the rootzone imbalance, but it will give them a quick shot in the arm of iron. As for watering, a B1/ iron/ zinc mix at no more than half the recommended label dose, and with runoff to about the volume of the container. Make sure the PH of the water is right around 6.5 to 7. This will leech the soil of some of that excess P.

Hope this helps. Your plants will be just fine. :joint:

THC again for all the useful info, I'd be scared :yoinks: to transplant them at the moment, so I guess the foliar feed (by B1 did you mean the vitamin?) I'll try to find somthing with Iron, feed via the leaves and give the youngsters a good flush as you advised.

good vibes,
eric
 

southpaw

Member
Like I wrote somewhere earlier, I screwed-up and my light's are 36W T8 instead of T5, but they're really not giving that much heat (I rested the thermo / hygro and will know exactly today), plus I've raised them do about 8"+ on wednesday.

My T5s are 24W and they also don't give off very much radiant heat. Haven't used T8s so I won't tell you how far off they should be, but in general with flouro tubes, you want them about as close as they can safely be. Their light penetration simply doesn't compare to HIDs.

FUCK! I was pretty convinced that it could be the Mg def. and gave them dolomited, hope it won't bump up the pH even higher and make to lock up harder to flush out..

Don't worry. Dolomite buffers to neutral, it won't send you PH way out of whack like quick lime. It's also very slow acting. In any case, epsom salts are the short term Mg fix, not dolomite. Dolomite is healthier though in the long run for your soil.

No prefert of the soil mix - all I did was add 30% perlite and about 10% hydroton. As for the GHE "Bio Roots", according to the chart it should only be used in weeks 1-3, so I followed the chart and was hoping it would give and "extra hand" for the freshly rooted clones - is that bad thinking? When would you suggest using the Bio Roots?

Glad to hear that the soil was relatively pure, that should make your recovery go quicker. My personal philosophy on additives is the less, the better. I'd never heard of Bio Root until I read this thread. Superthrive, B1, and kelp products are all good safe root stimulants, but I only use the first two when a plant has been stressed by something else I've done (for example, my transplanting skills used to be awful.) :D

A healthy clone, in a good soil under good lighting, doesn't need "help" to make roots.

THC again for all the useful info, I'd be scared to transplant them at the moment, so I guess the foliar feed (by B1 did you mean the vitamin?) I'll try to find somthing with Iron, feed via the leaves and give the youngsters a good flush as you advised.

Sounds good. B1 is just a mild root stimulant that is combined with iron, zinc, and trace elements in lots of different fertilizer brands. Try a half dose of the weakest mix the label gives first, and just a quarter if you try a foliar spray.
 

gmanwho

Well-known member
Veteran
Whew... okay, deep breaths everybody.

Mg makes leaves chlorotic from the edges inward (between the veins), and tends to affect old leaves first.

That stuff aside.

So when u look at pic 5 & 6 from the first post, the lower fan leaves,closest to the bottom of the photo, you dont see exactly what you just described?

ericsson... Thats why i suggested cal-mag+ would be a great start. if it ant' mag def, then you'll get the fe like southpaw suggested an the other trace elements.

Most likely you ph is giving you all your troubles.

pic 5&6 look mag def to me. the other pics with top light green growth look like fe now when i compare.


as for the 6/9 cocking them, you could start of weaker, especially since you have lower watt veg lighting. go 3/6. If you increase your light your gonna need more food.

t5's are great, an a very big difference from t8'. the 4 bulbs fixture,54 watts x 4, are nice, they also have 6 an 8 bulb. t5's produce tight node growth. i suggest you look into some t5's if you enjoy your hobby. night to day diffence. you can still get an 1inch or 2 form the tops.

Any updated picks? it been like 7 or so days.

Be well
 
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