Leaf Curl Up and Down?

[Kush Technician]

so did you check your run-off, Broseph? Soil can tolerate ph fluctuations better than hydro, so look for the EC/ppm rather than the ph - as in the soil may be still a little too hot. Unless the ph is crazy out of whack, like 4 or 8, you should be ok. Try to keep it in the 6's tho. And 10 gallon pots, unless the roots have filled up the space, won't need to be watered more than once, maybe twcie a week, until the roots take off. A lot of people underestimate the importance of proper watering cycles. Your plants still have time to recover and make nice buds. Good luck.

 

[Crooked8]

Haha oh im blasting the og hard. As for the OP. I still think hes having ph issues along with hungry plants. Hard to tell because the one photo with hids looks like theyre yellowing but then the other pic they look green and curling down is usually nitro def. which would be hard to have with underfed/locked out plants. I dunno, im so confused, people watering with a ph of 6.8 my room flooded because a dwc pump moved into a position that shot my resivoir all over the floor i feel crazy right now. My world is flipping upside down hammer!

 

[Snype]

Listen bro, ive grown in ffof, roots 707, happy frog and many other soils. Your larf cola does not impress me. Not here to have a pissing match but dude look at my work and youll see why i coudnt care less about that bud you showed. I converted to DWC and F&D for a reason. Because problems like this don't occur nearly as often. To each his own but if hes going deficient at week 3 his ph is likely to be off. FFof is designed like most other organic potting soil in that it has nutrients already in there for up to 4 weeks. Starting at week three with light nute base is recommended by many. The "magazine" i was referring to was THIS FORUMS MAGAZINE. IC mag Issue number 4. also known as the magazine with extremely good information in it from the masters on this forum youre trying to contribute to. Not like reading high times or something. And after very little research i also realized i am correct. Organic soil is naturally acidic like i said previously. CANNABIS whether in hydro or soil wants the ph to be between 5.8-6.2. When you water brand new soil with water or water mixed with fertilizer you want it to go in at 6.2-6.4 with the hopes that the acidic soil will create a medium with a ph of 5.8-6.2 which is why measuring runoff is key. After week 4 in soil most of that medium has become fertilizer free and watering at your desired runoff ph or very slightly above is ideal. Just because you grew a larfy plant thats somewhat healthy in ffof with a higher ph than i recommended doesnt make you an ffof master. Ive helped many people in this infirmary and you're the one with the crap info telling someone to keep their ph too high. Ill help whoever i want and my advice will always be well thought out and based on my experience and research. Who are you to even assume what my experience has been based on? Ive used ffof since 2008. Back when the soil didn't have more added bullshit. I switched when they added all their fillers. All of my moms are in soil. I never use ffof either anymore because its hyped rape pricing for inferior soil. Which is why they had to add fillers to compensate for their increased demand. It used to be the shit. Im just trying to help. Im admittedly not a master, but i have first hand experince and every right to chime in.

I'm specifically speaking about FFOF soil. If the run off falls below 6.0, it is not good. Some strains can take those pH swings for a little while and some can't but I'm positive about this one. I'm still using FFOF to this day and I check my run off every watering and every feeding. I always make sure that the Run Off is around 6.4 but never below 6.0. I have data to prove everything that I'm saying.

There is a reason why Stiches thread in the sticky has over 1,000,000 views. Here's a direct quote from Stitch:

For soil the best ph to have is 6.8. Why? Because at 6.8, that’s the best number for ALL available nutrients to be absorbed into the plant without any of them being locked out.

 

[Crooked8]

Snype, you're on it. Ill leave the soil advice to the soil heads. My bad earlier, today hasn't been my day. On to the mobius with og loaded with some cheese kief on top. Maybe a beer too lol

 

[Seal-Clubber]

want my advice? It`s a Calcium / Magnesium lockout due to a flux of pH. Are you over-watering? Most growers use perlite or some something to fluff up the soil so it does not cake. You want oxygen in the soil, if you have little oxygen, pH will likely flux, roots will stagnate, and cause some lock-outs.

 

[Crooked8]

What is it about soil that makes the plant want a ph of 6.8? I remember even when i ran soil and i would use house and garden soil a and b and they suggested 6.2. Why would they suggest 6.2 if that would make their nutes less available? Seems like a bad sales tactic to suggest a ph on a chart only to have plants lock out. Wouldnt that also vary from nute company to nute company and soil mix to soil mix? How does stitch know 6.8 is ideal for all soils being fed all types nutes? Not trying to argue at all genuinely curious. Also some strains prefer a difference in ph. My cheese loves it more acidic than other plants same with the amnesia. My og likes it higher. Its all so varied based on personal situations. I just always thought the rule of thumb was for your MEDIUM regardless of soil or hydro to be running off or recirculating at a ph of 5.8-6.2. I guess im wrong.

 

[Snype]

What is it about soil that makes the plant want a ph of 6.8? I remember even when i ran soil and i would use house and garden they suggested 6.2. Why would they suggest 6.2 if that would make their nutes less available? Wouldnt that also vary from nute company to nute company and soil mix to soil mix? How does stitch know 6.8 is ideal for all soils being fed all types nutes? Not trying to argue at all genuinely curious. Also some strains prefer a difference in ph. Its all so varied based on personal situations. I just always thought the rule of thumb was for your MEDIUM regardless of soil or hydro to be running off or recirculating at a ph of 5.8-6.2. I guess im wrong.

Nutrient company's are in the business of making money not putting out good information. Look at even Advanced Nutrients which is tested on Cannabis. Look at how much the bottles from Nute company's says you are supposed to use. This industry is filled with misinformation. It's just how it is. Not all hydro is supposed to be the same pH ranges. It really depends on your specific medium because within the medium there will be pH differences. Like Rockwool for example. Stitch knows because Stitch is very smart and informative. I learned so much from Stitch and I wouldn't be the grower that I am today without Stitch. This type of soil and pH is not the same as using teas that you bubble and stuff like that. I don't think those guys even have to pH with all the live things going on in their soil. I have no experience with that whatsoever so I can't speak for it. I can only speak with my personal experience that I have and I keep loads of data. I learn everything that I know from my data and it's a ton of work to do. When you say that some strains prefer a different pH I don't think that you are right. What I think is that if you kept data, you would find that a certain plant that you grow wants a different pH because they are uptaking too much or too little of a specific element because your nute formula wasn't correct and had too much of something or too little of a specific element. As you may know certain elements are more available at different pH levels and other nutrients will be less available at that same pH which is why you probably have seen what you have seen.

 

[Crooked8]

I was always informed that the nute companies want to make money. Their schedules always suggest using far more than needed. However, it doesn't seem like they would make much money off of giving an incorrect ph suggestion. Regardless, i really like that you keep data. I think i should keep a journal of some form. Its always better to have more info than less. As for my strains variances in ph needs, maybe you're right.

 

[prune]

You may be a new member and not aware what happened to the infirmary. Some of the greatest educational infirmary helpers chose to leave the infirmary because of these types of situations. When they would try and help people, it ended up turning into pissing matches and loads of poor information that led to a lot of growers plants messed up even further. You are right everyone is entitled to their opinion but when you have such bad information when people are telling growers in soil that their pH should be 5.8, that is just crazy and shouldn't be tolerated. I've been saying for years that there should be a master moderator in this form for when the information is clearly wrong but that may never happen. Environment and genetics have nothing to do with what your pH in soil should be.

I guess that went in one ear and out the drunk other one cause i'm still hearing the same useless inane pissing and arguing clogging up the thread...

 

[BrosephStalin]

Thanks for all the input guys. I just watered with water PHd to 6.6, run off was measured at 6.3. Watered them at %50 strength tiger bloom and grow big, hope they bounce back. I really appreciate the help guys.

 

[Crooked8]

I guess that went in one ear and out the drunk other one cause i'm still hearing the same useless inane pissing and arguing clogging up the thread...

I disagree. I think it went from being rude to being genuine with my questions and him being genuine with good answers. This is a forum, people will debate things. Its human nature. Im glad i learned what i did.

 

[Snype]

Thanks for all the input guys. I just watered with water PHd to 6.6, run off was measured at 6.3. Watered them at %50 strength tiger bloom and grow big, hope they bounce back. I really appreciate the help guys.

Why didn't you check the PPM of your run off to determine if they even needed nutrients? Magnesium and Calcium can become locked out in a medium of 6.3. You have such big pots. Here is a quote from Stitch in the Sticky in the Infirmary:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688

"Soil
Magnesium gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 2.0-6.4
Magnesium is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.5-9.1 . (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Magnesium deficiency.

Calcium gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 2.0- 6.4
Calcium is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.5-9.1 (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Calcium Deficiency."

I just don't understand why you added anything besides water to check for pH and PPM of your run off. Adding more nutrients to the problem wasn't the best idea. Good luck with your grow. Read the thread that I linked for you above. To find a solution to your problems, it is best not to add anything and to eliminate variables. Now you just added more variables to your equation. Check to see if your pH meter is calibrated properly. If I was using a 10 gallon pot of FFOF, I wouldn't need to add any nutrients the entire grow and would have healthy plants as long as my pH was in line.

 

[BrosephStalin]

Well damn. I calibrated my ph meter before I measured the runoff. I don't know why I didn't measure the ppm of it. I had a more experienced friend come over this morning when I watered and he suggested a half strength dose of nutes, so that's what I did. Ughhhh, stressful.

 

[Crooked8]

I hope things work out well for you broseph

 

[Snype]

Well damn. I calibrated my ph meter before I measured the runoff. I don't know why I didn't measure the ppm of it. I had a more experienced friend come over this morning when I watered and he suggested a half strength dose of nutes, so that's what I did. Ughhhh, stressful.

Maybe you will get lucky. The thing that sucks is that you have 10 gallon pots so you won't have to water for a long time. So if you still have problems, that's a long time to wait to get them fixed. When I test my FFOF out of the bag, it tests at 1850 PPM. You have 10 Gallons and I use 4 Gallon pots and only nute 3 times for the whole crop at less than 1/2 strength.

Most growers that I see with problems add nutrients to try and fix the problem. Less is actually more. This site is really informative when you don't ask people for help. You just have to know where to look.

If your plants were mine and I was going to add nutrients and I saw the run off at 6.3, I would have nuted at 6.8 to try and get it back up to 6.4. You will probably fine in the end. 6.3 isn't crazy. But it doesn't tell us if you have any root problems with the method that you chose.

 

[BrosephStalin]

Thanks guys, I've started reading that thread you linked. I'll end up reading through a few times no doubt!

 

[RetroGrow]

I'm watering tomorrow so I'll check runoff. I've been running this room for almost 2 years with no issues and this strain many times as well. I've checked VERY closely for bugs and haven't found any, so I'm pretty stumped as to where to go from here. Thanks for the input dude.

Did you scope the underside of the leaves for Broad mites? They are epidemic now, and are microscopic, and can cause some of the symptoms you have. You need a 100X scope to see them, and a bright LED light.

 

[Seal-Clubber]

What is it about soil that makes the plant want a ph of 6.8?

I use 6.8 because I used organic. As organic soil decomposes, it becomes more acidic. My soil has a median pH of 6.5 stable, 6.3 runoff, when it is fed 6.8 @ 1400ppm. My soil is re-used and it only gets better as i pour more homemade organic tea into the roots.

Edit... be careful watering it too much if you used only soil and no aerator. advice, advice, advice..

The thing that sucks is that you have 10 gallon pots so you won't have to water for a long time.

I use 30 gallon pots with 25% steer manure/compost, 40% oak tree compost (tannic acid leeched), and 35% perlite. 36-hours without water = a limp and dying plant. Her tote container weighs about 250lbs, and she is 7ft tall and 6ft wide. She wants 5 gallons a day with about a quart of runoff. point being, NOTHING IS ABSOLUTE.


another thing, cal and mag will get locked out if the soil is not properly aerated and over-watered. does not matter the pH if it`s over-watered in a cake-like soil.

 

[Kush Technician]

If you keep using FFOF, make sure to add perlite to it. Better yet, get some promix or just a bag of peat moss and perlite each, since you are using liquid nutrients anyway.