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Landraces . Will we ever smoke what we once had? If no is there a Way back?
- Thread starter romanoweed
- Start date
MrMojoRisin
New member
Feral cannabis still growing in Oklahoma as well.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ko...ound-on-devon-energy-land-in-oklahoma/4294109
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ko...ound-on-devon-energy-land-in-oklahoma/4294109
White Beard
Active member
Good link and good point: I doubt cannabis is headed down that road. I think that there’s far more to the plant genetically than we’ve plumbed so far. If you want to say that we overuse certain genetic pools, that we could select smarter, that we may be seeing a narrowing of states and profiles being grown, I’ll agree that it certainly SEEMS like everything is Kush this and Haze that and Cookies everywhere, from what I gather here.
It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that cannabis is like apples, every plant unique and unpredictable. Interesting too that the source of all apples is Kazakhstan.
There’s lifetimes of study and research and discovery ahead. Freedom to research will bring far more and far better information
romanoweed
Well-known member
I think i once read the source of all Major livestock is from around arabia.. Cows , Horses , donkey , goat.. as i remember. But probably this is wrongly delifered... Like said Historical Researchs Evidences arent perfectly acceptet from everyone. Also the Age of Bibel determined trough Gaschomatography is still a Little bit an unsure Thing.. But why not... Funny also that this Region is very Close to where all Humans may have emerged from! They came from somewhere like Ethopia, and first immigrated to this more arabian Regions(Kasachstan) before Splitting up in thosand directions... Called :Mitochondrial_Eve here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
I just stumbled on some photos of Ethiopian plants and those look very similar to ACE Seeds' new Lebanese sativa line. Pics of some Egyptian plants also shared similar features.
Originally i thought Ace's Leb line looks like something related to Indian/Paki sativa hybrids.
Just looked thru photos of Iranian lines from the www and clearly these kind of "Leb sativas" were also in Iran, so Mid Eastern sure might have something to do with it.
Those pics are on the "African strains" thread. Cool thread:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=59587
..some African plants look "rustic" like some Himalayan/Nepalis, red stems etc., and look abit similar to some Mexican (Acapulco Gold?)
G `day GC
Its not that far by boat from Arabia to Ethiopia / Somalia .
The Queen of Sheeba [ modern day Ethiopia / Somalia ] visited King Solomon maybe she brought back the fire ? lol .
Thanks for sharin
EB .
Camels originated in north america.
Ibechillin
Masochist Educator
Feral cannabis is all over the Midwestern USA. Definitely in Missouri still (lived there in 2016), feral hemp is notorious for breaking farm equipment lol.
From Wikipedia On Feral Hemp:
Responses to feral cannabis vary by time period and jurisdiction, with some entities putting out efforts to eradicate the plant, while others consider it a very low priority. The DEA's Domestic Cannabis Eradication/Suppression program was founded in 1979 and provides federal funds nationwide to eradicate cannabis. In 1991, the program claimed to have eradicated 118 million feral cannabis plants, mostly in Indiana and Nebraska, versus about 6 million cultivated plants in the same program (95% and 5% of the total, respectively). A 2003 report noted that 99% of the cannabis eradicated under this program in 2003 was feral cannabis, not cultivated plants.
Feral cannabis is an exceptionally hardy weed, widely dispersing its seeds which can lie dormant for 7–10 years before sprouting again. In Minnesota, hemp is classified among the 11 "noxious prohibited weeds" along with several species of thistle, and noted for damaging farmers' plowing equipment.
Particularly in Indiana, where feral cannabis is most concentrated, authorities have largely ceased eradication attempts, with one police spokesman stating "You can eradicate ditch weed as well as you can eradicate dandelion."
From Wikipedia On Feral Hemp:
Responses to feral cannabis vary by time period and jurisdiction, with some entities putting out efforts to eradicate the plant, while others consider it a very low priority. The DEA's Domestic Cannabis Eradication/Suppression program was founded in 1979 and provides federal funds nationwide to eradicate cannabis. In 1991, the program claimed to have eradicated 118 million feral cannabis plants, mostly in Indiana and Nebraska, versus about 6 million cultivated plants in the same program (95% and 5% of the total, respectively). A 2003 report noted that 99% of the cannabis eradicated under this program in 2003 was feral cannabis, not cultivated plants.
Feral cannabis is an exceptionally hardy weed, widely dispersing its seeds which can lie dormant for 7–10 years before sprouting again. In Minnesota, hemp is classified among the 11 "noxious prohibited weeds" along with several species of thistle, and noted for damaging farmers' plowing equipment.
Particularly in Indiana, where feral cannabis is most concentrated, authorities have largely ceased eradication attempts, with one police spokesman stating "You can eradicate ditch weed as well as you can eradicate dandelion."
White Beard
Active member
Thanks for that in-depth look at feral cannabis. I have learned something today already.
It still remains, I believe, that modern stoner tech has not contaminated the entire cannabis gene pool, mostly it seems the same lines get crossed and recrossed - much the same way I imagine those fancy chickens get bred.
The fact is the true seedbanks are the aboriginal populations in Africa and Asia, and there are those who make those banks available to us, but it’s up to us to grow them, to preserve them, and to use them intelligently.
A dream of mine is to establish a self-perpetuating field of landrace cannabis, to search through *it*, and to every now and then feed it a few fancy seeds, see how that affects the effects and overall potency of the field, and see what modern grow techniques bring out of the cultivars.
It still remains, I believe, that modern stoner tech has not contaminated the entire cannabis gene pool, mostly it seems the same lines get crossed and recrossed - much the same way I imagine those fancy chickens get bred.
The fact is the true seedbanks are the aboriginal populations in Africa and Asia, and there are those who make those banks available to us, but it’s up to us to grow them, to preserve them, and to use them intelligently.
A dream of mine is to establish a self-perpetuating field of landrace cannabis, to search through *it*, and to every now and then feed it a few fancy seeds, see how that affects the effects and overall potency of the field, and see what modern grow techniques bring out of the cultivars.
romanoweed
Well-known member
I am not an Expert meaning what i say now is not so clear to me, but if you wanna take strains from Africa, and just self pollinate them in North America, then they will be selected differently, as how they would by Nature of Africa.. And i believe it would be so different, that after 8th Generations or so the outcome would be clearly visible. When dooing open pollination you would have to cancel out the Influence of your Enviroment. How to doo that?: If you do 8 Generations open Pol. with per Example White Widow and you see certain Traits boosted, and others disapearing, and you doo an other 8 Gen. open Pol. with say SkunkNr1 and you see some of the same Genes boosted as with Wite Widow than you doo some adjustments like Change Lights.. so often until you dont see the same Traits boosted in completly DIFFERENT Strains.. Now you have neutralisized the influence of the Growroom... A very Long Process.
That leafes Your say implanted random African Seed an African Steed for some time... I just wanna clarify that this doesent GENERATE what African Wilderness does... It just copies it. You know , the Result might still be inbreeding on lllllong Therm, even with an Endless amount of seeds, you never know.. And even with random Injection of new african Races. Probly you know that even more exact , but i just say.
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What im rather hoping is that there might be something like insane Regional / very Close wild Races, wich are Kind of inbreed BUT have Kind of a very certain Genetic... Like a Counterpart to pure Colors in visible Light Spectum... And if thats the case , then probably you could open Pollinate inbreed this forever. Probably Inreeding Depression wich is deadly in Long therms doesent happen there, in pure(colored)Races, this is hypotetical again..
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And now i just dreamdance a bit: It is also possible, that this pure-colored Races doesent survive Inbreeding forever, but there must be a certain Inbreed-ness if you just look at plants locked up in Valleys, besides unclibable Moutains, this is surely a Fact, BUT.. How you describe that Kind of --small- Influence from Outside? how ? probably we could find out how Nature introduces External Genes, and how not.. Cause then we coud find out the real perpetuum Landrace, and therefore recreate this pure-colored, as also the normal mudiier-colored by in, and outbreading.....
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Now i Show also something about Colors: In Nature we often see Colors wich have a certain muddieness, like this:
wich is not just like old Color(imagine liveng Flowers) no , it is actually pure Colors just a bit more mixedup. Pure Colors in the next Picture:
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It doesent paticulaary have a Connection. But i just wanna Point out: once you dont have nomore the pure Colors. you cann nomore create pure AND normal Colors , and therefore probably only paint too muddy Pictures.. The other way around: if you ONLY use pure Colors, you end up with a blacklitepeinting, wich might be cool, but the MOST beautiful things on Earth are rather in a certain Degree of (muddienes) mixedness..
There is still some Connection, as so many things are connected.. A real Hallucinogenic Landrace looked very Neonlike. It had this extra pure green i never saw Long time
romanoweed
Well-known member
So now it sounds like im too neagetive Thinking maybe. But i just wanted to make clear what it might not doo, probably. And i still would rather try to get Exemplares, so pure as possible, but also lightly muddied ones, and cross EVERY exemplar with the other separatly and try to see Patterns. Cause i suspect that the NEUTRAL open Pollination might affect a race differently than the INFLUENTING african Nature.. So i cant imagine what could Evolve out of that. But i suspect rather Inbreeding Depression, Than something usefull, even on big size. I rather think that Nature does create the Races, or if they do theselve... It is just a very big gamble that they would wanna evolve in a NEUTRAL enviroment, wich probably feels like an Alien Planet for them, cause ist Kind of artificial.. like Home sweet Home? It still would be like a Race evolving in a different Nature, and You in Fact COULD study the Adaption, since they would adapt to Neutrality, or in other View , how they would adapt OUT of Influence like : Snail-eat, Fog-rodding , Mountain blockage...... since it would be aRace you would see MORE clearly, BUT , but.. you would have to compare it to different Testing-Scenarios, to be able to see Patterns i think. Cause trough comparison you could define what you see, but you maybe not be able to see if you just look to it and dont know exactly how to call Things.. rather trough Comparison you could tell by the frequency of what you recognize that it might be
romanoweed
Well-known member
If you just neutrally imbreed whatever: per example a pure wild Thai Landrace or a more mixed Thai landrace, on whatever Scale, i suggest you run into inbreeding depression, cause even with 10000 plants and (open pollination) and even after 3 , 4 Generations: the resulting children arent Selected by nature, cause every time a male marries a women, Babys arent choosen by nature, no they are just randomly choosen.. It would probaly be better than human selection, cause humans tend to look onto wrong shines...very fast, and voila, you loosed some important genes in the same Time you Human choosed... and therefore Open pollination might be better, but i think wont recreate what nature does. So now again Colors: I think what we wanna is not a pure Color, also not a totally mixed up Color, we want rather something between.. The mixed up watercolors wasnt probably a good example cause they just arent that nice.. but consider other mixed up Colors, you often find in Minerals and such, wich often are expensive, but very beautiful.. Thats what we want. And i would tend to describe their Color as a rhythm: like said a mixed Color is often a pure Color with a bit of the neighbouring pure Colors mixed.. i even tend to think that i see like a(dreamdancing a bit) rhythm, in that These Colors mix up.. That is what Looks like a gloss in the Color when moving it.. I could imagine, that These pure Landraces, wich may often be lost, or just the least to find(if you even can identify these) are just mostly imbreed, but never total, that means that there Needs to be some outer influence from the neighbouring pure ones, to stay healthy, to be what we find in Nature... But actually i think they have to be the right choosen ones, not like every surrounding neighbour is right. Nature will know wich, if you wanna call it Snails deciding wich one to eat, or wich plants to find weapons against snails, and therefore surviving. And i think this is totally unknown wich plant will pair with wich. But i think at least it is reasonable that pure landraces often marry pure neighbours , and not lesser relatet plants. So based on this Assumtion we coud make narrow down the possibileties, and try to: do mostly inbreeding of pure Landraces, and from time to time, or progressively cross in nearly related pure plants to sustain a certain undepression, and based on the same thought we could also look if we could progressively create the more unpure plants (the Yewels i assume, since i often heard a close outcross of pure Landraces creates the Yewels) . So that would also be a perpetum Garden. Thats what i would test if i had a bigger number of plants.. and if i had the energy to do it. Cross Close related, pure Plants one by one , and look if in some case we can: sustain the FULL VITALITY(undepression) and in the same time sustain the :FULL PURENESS, ( not see ANY more Unpureness)..
And whats the Goal on the Close Outcross side? I Guess still :sustain THE UNIFORMNESS of the pure Plants, and in the same time gain: MORE TRIPPINESS or what you intended, more than with pure Landraces.
And whats the Goal on the Close Outcross side? I Guess still :sustain THE UNIFORMNESS of the pure Plants, and in the same time gain: MORE TRIPPINESS or what you intended, more than with pure Landraces.
White Beard
Active member
I’m sorry, guy, but it’s too hard to make out what you’re trying to say.
There’s lots of things you’re trying to get to in each wall of text, I can see that, but your punctuation is random, your sentences are fragments, and your thoughts don’t seem to hook up with each other. Maybe one idea at a time, several complete sentences for each, then new paragraph for the next idea?
I must confess that conversations about genetic purity can get wonky fast IMO....
There’s lots of things you’re trying to get to in each wall of text, I can see that, but your punctuation is random, your sentences are fragments, and your thoughts don’t seem to hook up with each other. Maybe one idea at a time, several complete sentences for each, then new paragraph for the next idea?
I must confess that conversations about genetic purity can get wonky fast IMO....
romanoweed
Well-known member
would be much easyer to Skype than typing all These words in my head. Peace
Trollhammer
New member
Go find some pot in a field BOOM landrace..
You'll be home huffing your jars of PMO's in no time
You'll be home huffing your jars of PMO's in no time
White Beard
Active member
I’m beginning to think that ‘landrace’ simply means field-grown and open-pollinated, and I’m beginning to think that much if not most of the ‘missing’ history of human-cannabis relations lie under water.
Last I heard, they’d found traces of the relationship as far back as 12,000 years - in other words, about the end of the last Glacial period, when the icecaps melted.
To consider how much of human history may have been lost, look at the areas most at risk of rising oceans: the coasts, where we’re already trying to figure out how much land will be lost if seas rise another ten feet...and where the bulk of populations tend to cluster.
Now consider that when the big melt happened, the seas *did* rise, something like 100-130 meters, and they did it fast. People had time to move inland and to high ground, but where they lived at the start is now under some 400’ of water. That’s a lot of hidden history, but my sense is that the human-cannabis relationship is much older than 12,000 years, given the nature and scope of the endocannabinoid system.
Because of this and other factors, I have serious doubts about the utility of pretending that the dates associated with archaeological cannabis finds establish any kind of ‘timeline’ for the ‘progress’ of the relationship, or any meaningful sequence of development of the plant itself.
I know this flies in the face of Bob Clarke’s efforts to retaxonomize cannabis, but I guess I’m stuck with it now.
Last I heard, they’d found traces of the relationship as far back as 12,000 years - in other words, about the end of the last Glacial period, when the icecaps melted.
To consider how much of human history may have been lost, look at the areas most at risk of rising oceans: the coasts, where we’re already trying to figure out how much land will be lost if seas rise another ten feet...and where the bulk of populations tend to cluster.
Now consider that when the big melt happened, the seas *did* rise, something like 100-130 meters, and they did it fast. People had time to move inland and to high ground, but where they lived at the start is now under some 400’ of water. That’s a lot of hidden history, but my sense is that the human-cannabis relationship is much older than 12,000 years, given the nature and scope of the endocannabinoid system.
Because of this and other factors, I have serious doubts about the utility of pretending that the dates associated with archaeological cannabis finds establish any kind of ‘timeline’ for the ‘progress’ of the relationship, or any meaningful sequence of development of the plant itself.
I know this flies in the face of Bob Clarke’s efforts to retaxonomize cannabis, but I guess I’m stuck with it now.
TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
History is pretty easy to erase if you settle next to water. And almost all did.
If you believe in the stoned ape theory, weed was probably discovered and lost, like fire, more than once. A huge amount of time goes by before it sticks.
If you believe in the stoned ape theory, weed was probably discovered and lost, like fire, more than once. A huge amount of time goes by before it sticks.
cannabis is fine. if you think farmers high in the himalayas that have been growing their particular village strain for hundreds if not thousands of years are gonna get over taken by some flimsy indoor genes that need exactly timed lighting and fertilizing requirement youre goofy. thats the shit we get cause were a captive market surrounded by bullshit and marketing. cannabis is fine and will be fine. all this landraces are going extinct shit is grandstanding to drum up concern and hype for the shit product too many people are putting out today. its the fox news model of business. meanwhile chuckleheads feed you shit weed sprayed with perfume and tell you the sky is falling. and you lap it up cause "omg teh cannabis is going extinkzors!!!!"
