Lacto Bacilli: process and discussion

[Organilush]

I know the originally recipe calls for rice wash water. However, you’re actually cultivating the microbes living on the grains, not the native ones from your own environment. Instead, I prefer to use the starchy water left over from cooking potatoes or pasta. The cooking process sterilizes the water. I also heavily salt my cooking water, which can inhibit certain microorganisms but LABs seem to handle it just fine.

So you are saying...

When using something like rice wash water....the "spectrum" of micrbobes one is cultivating is mostly those that were on the rice from what ever environment that rice was grown? Since the water is never heated/sterilized, what ever microbes are on the rice from what ever region the rice was grown is what one ends up cultivating?

And when using something like leftover starch water from pasta....which has been sterilized from cooking the pasta, one will be cultivating microbes from their local environment that ended up within the water/container after the cooking....?...


I never really thought about that...makes sense though.



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[Hookahhead]

Organ, your exactly right. Part of mushroom cultivation is soaking grains. After a 24 hour soak a lot of the bacteria and stuff germinate. It’s all microbes that were living/dormant on the grain. By starting with a sterile broth, you ensure you’re cultivating microbes from your environment.

 

[Veggia farmer]

In Scandinavia we have some like this in the store. Milk with bacteria.. Different kinds too.. I have a tree inside, dont remember the name, that is my experiment pot ( I put everything in it) when used this Cultura melk as we call it here, everything went crazy! Good shit! All the mulch that was on top was soon gone, eaten by bacteria and mycel.


can also use left overs from sour bread (before the oven), or rather say all fermented food.

 

[scs]

Excellent read, thank you. Definitely trying this out in the spring.

 

[Benny106]

Hope your doing good out there jaykush!

 

[Maple_Flail]

http://www.koreabiomed.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=7744

L. Gasseri for the win!

 

[Guest]

Great thread!!

 

[Hookahhead]

Did you know that you can make LAB cultures from other “milks”? Not just from other animals, but from vegetable sources too.

Here is the broth left over from cooking dry red beans. The beans were eaten, and normally the broth would be dumped. Why not put it to use?

I used a LAB culture I previously harvested from milk. I have only tried inoculating in this manner, I have not tried to add the rice wash directly to bean broth. I would be hesitant to do this as bean broth is a good food source for more than just LABs. Here’s our brew after 24 hours.

Now 48 hours have passed. I live in the tropics, it’s hot as hell... ferments move fast lol. I have included a batch of milk LABs that we’re produced using the same procedure outlined in this post (except I started with pasta water instead of rice wash). So what’s actually going on here is that “milks” have a lot of dissolved proteins in them. When the LAB feed on the sugar, they convert it to Lactic acid. The low pH denatures some of the proteins (not all are susceptible), causing them to separate from the solution and coagulate as a solid.

You can see the bean culture is pretty cloudy and “fizzy”. I left this batch covered with a cloth like I typically do for milk. I believe some native yeast entered my broth and are feeding on the oligopsaccharides. These are complex sugars, and are the culprit for beans causing farts. In my experience the LABs don’t feed to heavily on these, but the yeast love them. In the past I’ve added yeast after the LAB ferment and it explodes with activity. Here is an example when I kept the initial ferment sealed (sterile). Notice the broth is much clearer.

 

[Hookahhead]

I have also done this entire process using the broth left over from cooking dry garbanzo beans. I imagine this should also work on seed milks such as a almond, hazelnut, or hemp.

Anyhow back to finishing this red bean ferment... Just like milk we have to separate the curds from the whey. If we had used soy milk, we would have produced tofu instead! Side note: this paste makes a nutritious and delicious base to soups and sauces.

The finished product!

 

[Veggia farmer]

nice hookahead, I have always just fed the bean and pea broth.. I got inspired now, thanks!

 

[voidpainter]

I made a batch of LAB and “inoculated” a fresh soil mix. The pH of the soil went from 6.9 to 4.5 in an hour, raised to 5.5 over night. What exactly is going on in there?

 

[h.h.]

I think the point of the milk is to isolate the lactoB. In most cases, I don’t think it’s important.

I have noticed when using milk jugs for storage, my fermentations tend to get darker in color if there’s a tiny bit of milk left.

 

[voidpainter]

I made a batch of LAB and “inoculated” a fresh soil mix.

The pH of the soil went from 6.9 to 4.5 in an hour, raised to 5.5 over night. Raised to 6.2 at noon.

1) What exactly is going on in there?

2) Does it really solubilize phosphates, make
them available?

3) I have a lot of soft rock phosphate in the mix, does LAB make P from the rock more available?

 

[Maple_Flail]

I made a batch of LAB and “inoculated” a fresh soil mix.

The pH of the soil went from 6.9 to 4.5 in an hour, raised to 5.5 over night. Raised to 6.2 at noon.

1) What exactly is going on in there?

2) Does it really solubilize phosphates, make
them available?

3) I have a lot of soft rock phosphate in the mix, does LAB make P from the rock more available?

What did you Dilute your LAB too? as the middle Letter stands for Acid, therefore acidic in nature.

Soil takes a bit to stabilize Ph changes unless heavily buffered then it takes bloody forever.

the LAB is innoculating as it is wetting the medium, as the medium is absorbing it, the Cations and the residual organics mix and balance out as the LAB get accustomed to their new place of residence.

as for rock phosphate, yes LAB will accelerate the break down slightly faster, it would be a fractional differnce. unless you over loaded your soil already you shouldn't have issues. plus its real easy to drop/limit phosphorus out of your tea regime. Its rock... the bacteria have a plethora of other things they'd can and rather eat then weathered rock.

 

[voidpainter]

Thank you for your input!

I mixed the soil with a rake again, pH ranges between 4.8 - 5.5 across different measuring spots.

I wanted to plant in a week. I’m not sure if I fucked up.

Will the pH stay this way now that its full of LAB?

Will it get buffered back to 6.9 due to ag lime & soft rock phosphate? Approximately when?

Is it possible the pH will stay like this or do I wait and how long approximately until it gets 6.5+ ?

I mixed a cap of LAB in a bottle of water 1,5L and poured it over 280L of soilmix.

What could happen if I added too much LAB in there?

 

[Maple_Flail]

Thank you for your input!

I mixed the soil with a rake again, pH ranges between 4.8 - 5.5 across different measuring spots.

I wanted to plant in a week. I’m not sure if I fucked up.

Will the pH stay this way now that its full of LAB?

Will it get buffered back to 6.9 due to ag lime & soft rock phosphate? Approximately when?

Is it possible the pH will stay like this or do I wait and how long approximately until it gets 6.5+ ?

I mixed a cap of LAB in a bottle of water 1,5L and poured it over 280L of soilmix.

What could happen if I added too much LAB in there?

out of curiousity, how are you checking your soil ph?

as you'll have to dampen the soil over the week, just make sure your input liquid is round your desired end point.

if you need additional shifting, lime and wood ash are benificals that will manage this, once you are at your ph range add in some good basalt rock dust and that should keep it fairly close to where you wanted atleast until things in the soil start depleting and you've got to top/side dress

as for how long it will take? couldn't tell ya man, I didn't make your soil.

but only 1.5l of dilution and 280l of mix, I can't see it shifting as extreme as you mention..

doesn't sound like your testing a settled slurry to me. sound like run off testing.

 

[h.h.]

I add straight lacto fermentations to new soil. Then I spread it out thin to air out for a couple days. Maybe 4 days and it starts smelling sweet. That’s when I use it. Never checked the pH.

 

[voidpainter]

I use an agro pH meter that measures directly, you stick it straight in soil. It’s more accurate compared to digital meters, cant measure water with it tho.

Could the shift he explained if I added too much LAB solution?

 

[h.h.]

The shift comes from lactic acid produced from LAB. I don’t have a problem with it. If it persists in your soil, my guess would be you need better aeration.

 

[voidpainter]

I did spread the soil out to dry faster yesterday. I might be impatient as I added LAB 2 days ago.

I understand it’s lactic acid, I just didnt imagine it would go under 5 pH.

So you’re saying pH will get corrected back if soil is well aerated?

My biggest concern was once you pour too much of it you’re fucked acidity-wise? I hope I’m wrong.