LAB CULTURE: {Lactic Acid Bacteria} How to Guide.

[stashpot]

Alright people today we're going to make LAB culture and learn of its properties in regards to cannabis plants.
I do enjoy researching,using and making LAB for my needs which is cheap, effective and a win for all the organic growers out there! as we all know we have one thing in common, and that is we all hate those damn chemicals
(You do not have to grow in organics to use LAB)
A short introduction to LAB culture. Please read if you are new to this.

Now that you understand what LAB culture is all about, lets make some. That's the beauty of it, its free and easy.

After you have made your lab its time to use it. And figuring out what way you want to use it.

Here's the list of things it can help you with.
LAB has highly antifungal properties which can fight fungal like molds etc.
LAB as you can read on the papers can be used as a Seed inoculation to improve germ rate and a host of other things.
LAB has been used for decades to improve soils, control disease and promote plant growth.
LAB can serve as biofertilizers, biocontrols, biostimulants, and bioelicitors.
LAB can improve nutrient availability from compost and other organic material.


Here's some more things it can do.

Feel free to add your own info photos methods etc or ask any questions.

And one final thing be careful on how much you use, this stuff is not to be used every other day or week.

If you are dealing with molds in veg or early flower foliar drench them before lights on for a couple days.

Thread carefully in late bloom.
Anyway hope this info helps at least 1 person, peace.

 

[CosmicGiggle]

Wow, thanks, this is very timely as I've just gotten into it recently myself, not for organic growing but for culturing out Lactobacillus, etc. from probiotics to have fun and save big buck$.

Makes sense that it would also be found in soil as that's how it would get from soil, vegetables and into the human stomach - our symbiotic friends!

I've also been (intuitively) curious if it could do anything for Powdery Mildew and maybe it can!

Etsy.com is a good place to look for laboratory supplies, especially hempjungle sells LAB.

This is one thread I'll be following!

 

[CosmicGiggle]

I have a quick question, the title is 'lactic Acid Bacteria', I was wondering if you want to limit the discussion to LAB in organic soil for growing, feeding and treating marijuana or if you are open to branching out and extending into other areas regarding Lactobacillus?

In addition, (thanks to info in this thread!) I'm also just getting a Psilocybin and Panaeolus grow set up, the 10lbs of horse poop 'n hay has been sterilized but I'll be inoculating it with the LAB I'm making right now, just out of curiosity!

 

[imiubu]

LAB's can be processed/ obtained without the use of dairy/ milk. I've been making my own LAB's now for a few years, for my garden and for my own consumption. I do not care for the smell of the souring dairy so I found a process that doesn't require the milk. Not sure if I can link a site that explains the milk free process or not?

 

[midwestkid]

Do you guys ever use this as a soil drench?

 

[CosmicGiggle]

Lactobacillus can be grown out on an agar plate just like most other bacteria. It is a bit pickier and requires MRS agar/broth, here's a recipe if you don't want to buy it ready made:

1. Dissolve the following in 850ml of distilled water
   • 10g Casein peptone, tryptic digest
   • 10g Meat extract
   • 5g Yeast extract
   • 20g Glucose
   • 1g Tween-80
   • 2g K[SUB]2[/SUB]HPO[SUB]4[/SUB]
   • 5g Na-acetate
   • 2g (NH[SUB]4[/SUB])[SUB]2[/SUB] citrate
   • 0.2g MgSO[SUB]4[/SUB]-7H[SUB]2[/SUB]O
   • 0.05g MnSO[SUB]4[/SUB]-H[SUB]2[/SUB]O
2. Adjust pH to between 6.2 and 6.5
3. Bring to 1000ml with distilled water
4. Autoclave or filter sterilize

I'm not too crazy about cultured milk products either but they are a good source for obtaining the the original Lactobacillus you want to culture out and grow in quantity so you don't have to eat the yogurt, etc., same with fermented products.

Commercial brands of cultured milk products carry a variety of different Lactobacillus and other probiotic bacteria that are listed on the label and can be cultured out, giving you a whole army of invisible helpers working together in your defense.

Also, there are some highly specialized Lactobacillus (and other probiotic bacteria) that can be found in commercial probiotic capsule supplements. I'mma try and culture these out also but don't know if it's possible for a home hobbyist to do this as the manufacturer may have engineered (GMO) it so it can't reproduced outside of the human digestive system.

What's interesting about these varieties of Lactobacillus and other microorganisms is that they've been identified and studied by scientists and found to have special properties benefiting human health and diseases, especially cancer and mental health. The stomach is supposed to have more neuro receptors than the brain so it makes sense to start there with any mental health regimen, it's not just the food!

So naturally I'll be trying alla these critters out on not just me but my secret garden also, just to see what they can do, should be interesting.

 

[imiubu]

https://www.lacto-life.com/

I see they have added some products to the site. There are free instructions however, to making several types of cultures.

 

[CosmicGiggle]

Thanks for that link, it's invaluable for LAB, the recipes especially.

..... one thing is important and since you're not using sterile technique yer gonna want to wash your hands well and then wash them again to prevent contamination of you LAB culture. No need to be growing anything that you don't want that will mess up or take over your culture or potentially harm you.

Any metal type transfer instrument you use (knife, spoon, etc. ) can be heat sterilized by running it through an open flame.

One thing I noticed on that site was a pic's of LAB being sprayed on lemon/lime tree leaves and fruit, presumably to treat Powdery Mildew and in the report that stashpot posted it noted:

Over-application of LAB Culture to fruit crops [foliar spray to leaves] may result in the loss of sweetness (lowered brix) of fruits. Apply sparingly in the latter stages of the fruiting season.

Does anyone have any thoughts/experience as to how this would affect the finished cannabis flower if sprayed directly on or as residue left on leaves?

 

[stashpot]

Alright guys, thanks for stopping by! will get back to each of you later today, All the best Stash.

 

[stashpot]

Do you guys ever use this as a soil drench?

Just quick reply on this one.. yes you can! this is the point of LAB it will create a relationship with the microbes and break down organic matter and make it more available to the plant along with a host of other things.
Use it at 1:1000 ratio with just water but ease into it at first mabye 0.5 to 1000ml and if you want mix with FPJ (Fermented plant Juice) it will take away any bad smell, but properly curated lab should be sweet and slightly sour to begin with and don't use pasteurized milk FPJ is another powerhouse organic amendment you can make a home for free i might start a thread on how to make that too.

 

[stashpot]

I have a quick question, the title is 'lactic Acid Bacteria', I was wondering if you want to limit the discussion to LAB in organic soil for growing, feeding and treating marijuana or if you are open to branching out and extending into other areas regarding Lactobacillus?

In addition, (thanks to info in this thread!) I'm also just getting a Psilocybin and Panaeolus grow set up, the 10lbs of horse poop 'n hay has been sterilized but I'll be inoculating it with the LAB I'm making right now, just out of curiosity!

I mean it is more of a Organic method so that's why i posted it over here rather than a generalized version for everybody which is what i should have done, but i feel like its very hard to get newer people, and bottled nute growers to listen or even care or understand about this stuff.
Organic growers tend to have a lot more understanding and experience in these methods, and i would like to just stick to the subject of Cannabis and its relationship with LAB, how to guide etc.
If you want to talk about LAB further and its benefits to the soil and or cannabis plants feel free, by all means man.
Thanks! Sounds good, good luck on your journey with that and enjoy.

 

[stashpot]

Wow, thanks, this is very timely as I've just gotten into it recently myself, not for organic growing but for culturing out Lactobacillus, etc. from probiotics to have fun and save big buck$.

Makes sense that it would also be found in soil as that's how it would get from soil, vegetables and into the human stomach - our symbiotic friends!

I've also been (intuitively) curious if it could do anything for Powdery Mildew and maybe it can!

Etsy.com is a good place to look for laboratory supplies, especially hempjungle sells LAB.

This is one thread I'll be following!

You're welcome, Sounds good stay healthy, i need to do the same myself with this! the natural Antibiotics
Yes that's correct and they actually store themselves in the cell walls of the plants tissues and stems etc.
It could help fight PM in early stages i would look for a further application for this and check how many times a day etc? i think i read every morning!.

Cheers, but lab should be made and used at home, outsourcing it will effect its shelf date before you even get it, best use it the day after you had made it.
Thanks, and welcome along.

 

[stashpot]

Lactobacillus can be grown out on an agar plate just like most other bacteria. It is a bit pickier and requires MRS agar/broth, here's a recipe if you don't want to buy it ready made:

1. Dissolve the following in 850ml of distilled water
   • 10g Casein peptone, tryptic digest
   • 10g Meat extract
   • 5g Yeast extract
   • 20g Glucose
   • 1g Tween-80
   • 2g K[SUB]2[/SUB]HPO[SUB]4[/SUB]
   • 5g Na-acetate
   • 2g (NH[SUB]4[/SUB])[SUB]2[/SUB] citrate
   • 0.2g MgSO[SUB]4[/SUB]-7H[SUB]2[/SUB]O
   • 0.05g MnSO[SUB]4[/SUB]-H[SUB]2[/SUB]O
2. Adjust pH to between 6.2 and 6.5
3. Bring to 1000ml with distilled water
4. Autoclave or filter sterilize

I'm not too crazy about cultured milk products either but they are a good source for obtaining the the original Lactobacillus you want to culture out and grow in quantity so you don't have to eat the yogurt, etc., same with fermented products.

Commercial brands of cultured milk products carry a variety of different Lactobacillus and other probiotic bacteria that are listed on the label and can be cultured out, giving you a whole army of invisible helpers working together in your defense.

Also, there are some highly specialized Lactobacillus (and other probiotic bacteria) that can be found in commercial probiotic capsule supplements. I'mma try and culture these out also but don't know if it's possible for a home hobbyist to do this as the manufacturer may have engineered (GMO) it so it can't reproduced outside of the human digestive system.

What's interesting about these varieties of Lactobacillus and other microorganisms is that they've been identified and studied by scientists and found to have special properties benefiting human health and diseases, especially cancer and mental health. The stomach is supposed to have more neuro receptors than the brain so it makes sense to start there with any mental health regimen, it's not just the food!

So naturally I'll be trying alla these critters out on not just me but my secret garden also, just to see what they can do, should be interesting.

Although i have no problem with your methods and the way you would rather it, this just makes it to tricky for most and non practical.. as i mentioned the best thing about LAB is it's already sitting in your fridge and presses and its organic and its free you don't need outsourced chemicals or other things.. Also the milk holds the real Antibiotics and probiotics which to me is very important for the culture.

Not to sure where others are from but where I'm from the milk is really good, clean, and i get organic and even when it goes sour it smells sweet and sour and pleasant, maybe if you live Spain or hot country the milk is very thick and Pasteurization and very hot weather makes it 10x worse then maybe i try look for something better. But for me, cold country & our milk is light and stays okay with the smell etc.


Yes very interesting Cosmic they threat a lot of things in the world!! in fact the antibiotics where basically achieved the same way! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_penicillin
Yeah the stomach leads to the heart, which runs to your brain and vice versa i think lmao, great info my friend! welcome along here.

 

[stashpot]

Thanks for that link, it's invaluable for LAB, the recipes especially.

..... one thing is important and since you're not using sterile technique yer gonna want to wash your hands well and then wash them again to prevent contamination of you LAB culture. No need to be growing anything that you don't want that will mess up or take over your culture or potentially harm you.

Any metal type transfer instrument you use (knife, spoon, etc. ) can be heat sterilized by running it through an open flame.

One thing I noticed on that site was a pic's of LAB being sprayed on lemon/lime tree leaves and fruit, presumably to treat Powdery Mildew and in the report that stashpot posted it noted:

Over-application of LAB Culture to fruit crops [foliar spray to leaves] may result in the loss of sweetness (lowered brix) of fruits. Apply sparingly in the latter stages of the fruiting season.

Does anyone have any thoughts/experience as to how this would affect the finished cannabis flower if sprayed directly on or as residue left on leaves?

Remember when they speak on LAB being applied to flowers or fruits it's generally food crops or edibles or smelling flowers etc, i would not apply LAB to cannabis flowers after week 2-3 and unless it was a last ditch effort for PM etc. LAB is mainly for veg and pre-flowering plants when applying foliar feedings, at which point there will be no reside left over as your last foliar application would be weeks before harvest and you would also spray down with water etc. after week 2 or so of pre-flower i would change from foliar to soil feedings.

I'm pretty sure it's when the Acids convert from the lab and form a relationship with the stored brix these substances influence the refractive index and lead to lowering the brix readings. aka sugar content in the sap, flowers, leaf shoots etc. But i don't think this applies to cannabis, the sugar content in cannabis is already low i think this is more for the edible application, but i am testing different applications of LAB at different times and eventually will be able to come to a conclusion.
I need to study more on it though, my personal opinion would be, like anything in life to much of it is bad.
All the best guys.

 

[chilliwilli]

I'm happy with the multikraft products. Use their fermented plant extract as foilar and also as soil drench. Its grass/herbs with garlic and chilli fermented with their em mix. Smells very nice fermented probiotic like.
Effective microorganism start as a lab base iirc but add yeasts and photosynthetic bacteria in the later fermentation steps.

stashpot have u tried em and noticed any differenct to using lab?

right now i try to ferment some wheat bran cocoa husk mix with the em starter culture and some denitrification bacteria but not sure if that works with just mixing them.

One downside for me when using the em is the smell when fermenting stuff. Tried to bokashi my leftover plant material like fan leaf, stem, icewater leftover. It took some time to fill one bucket and after the final fermentation the smell was a mix of puke and ammonia. Had to wait till winter to finally compost on my balcony because of that smell.

How is the smell with lab when fermenting plant matetial?

 

[stashpot]

I'm happy with the multikraft products. Use their fermented plant extract as foilar and also as soil drench. Its grass/herbs with garlic and chilli fermented with their em mix. Smells very nice fermented probiotic like.
Effective microorganism start as a lab base iirc but add yeasts and photosynthetic bacteria in the later fermentation steps.

stashpot have u tried em and noticed any differenct to using lab?

right now i try to frement some wheat bran cocoa husk mix with the em starter culture and some denitrification bacteria but not sure if that works with just mixing them.

One downside for me when using the em is the smell when fermenting stuff. Tried to bokashi my leftover plant material like fan leaf, stem, icewater leftover. It took some time to fill one bucket and after the final fermentation the smell was a mix of puke and ammonia. Had to wait till winter to finally compost on my balcony because of that smell.

How is the smell with lab when fermenting plant matetial?

I don't use any products from any company this is all made from home that's the whole point of this in my opinion.
if its smelling bad its not being done correctly and i wouldn't use it my friend. LAB and FPJ is fine no smell other than slightly sweet and sour.. it would not even smell sitting next to it so im not sure what process you guys are going through with the smells etc.. even tells you on the how to guide "if it smells bad you're not to use it" and you're most likely doing something wrong of course when you use certain things that naturally smell like fish etc then i can't help you lol
It is better to do small batches of it and only use small amounts filling bucket loads will cause you problems with bad molds etc.. also when making it don't add the leaf, stems etc overtime then let some of it ferment then add fresh stuff to it.. by the time the next fresh leaves ferment the first ones will be molded.. get your material in 1 day and make over a few days in small batches is best option.
in your case try 1/4 bucket and add equal sugar to plant material cover with something and come back in 3 days should be half done.

Edit: if you are using ice to ferment that's probably why you're having problems in order to make FPJ for certain things like bananas plants etc you need brown sugar unrefined. 1 part sugar to 1 part material.
Also if you do use sugar and you still get smells use the LAB to take away the smell, it works like that in reverse.
Also dont use icewater.. fermentation likes the warmer temps for the microbes to live and thrive and to break down the organic matter so ice will null that. Always ferment with brown sugar at room temps, hope this helps.

 

[chilliwilli]

Thx man i know it can be done diy what is imo best because u work with the indeginouse mo. But i like to have some easy avaliable stuff ready to use at home without much work too do. The em base solution and the fpj smells like u describe. Reminds me alot of the probiotic stuff for human consumption.

So using labs the right way produces no bad smell. I will try further with the wheat/ cocoa mix. The goal is to turn that into a pk boost for teas but i think to add some further fermenting steps to break down the plant material.

 

[stashpot]

Thx man i know it can be done diy what is imo best because u work with the indeginouse mo. But i like to have some easy avaliable stuff ready to use at home without much work too do. The em base solution and the fpj smells like u describe. Reminds me alot of the probiotic stuff for human consumption.

So using labs the right way produces no bad smell. I will try further with the wheat/ cocoa mix. The goal is to turn that into a pk boost for teas but i think to add some further fermenting steps to break down the plant material.

That's totally cool man i was just letting you know i have never used any products because you asked lol. that's good as long as it works and its good for you that's all that matters.
That's correct they will smell way way less than anything orgainc in a bottle you ever smelled some of the feeds these days? jesus thats cool here im going to post a how to guide on FPJ give me a minute this should help you and others looking for that extra kick in flower etc.

 

[stashpot]

A short introduction and how to guide on FPJ {Fermented Plant Juice} i like to make mine with Bananas, pomegranates peels, tangerine peels and cannabis leaf and stem shoots etc.

This stuff is just as good as LAB if not better, making a few different batches of this stuff with different methods with different nutrients can grow plants on their own.

 

[chilliwilli]

Nice thx