Thanks.....
Killer A5 Haze
- Thread starter dubi
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sammy have you tried out any linebreeding combinations with a5 and ag13 outcrosses? as you mentioned haze A seems to come thru strong in nld outcrosses. i suspect this could be due to progenitor transgressive segregation. when an outcross mating derives from its partner further back in the pedigree those complementary founder alleles could segregate together .and spit out a primal form. nevs method of finding a nick in an outcross and then accentuating the common ancestor comes to mind.
considering how few haze A f1 exist, finding a nick for ag13 and then linebreeding to a standout haze a dom killer a5 could open up a whole new world! combining 2 nicked f1s could take advantage of f1 over dominance and pair the best of haze a without diluting the haze genes or introduce bld genetics. something like killer a5 x (ag13 x orissa gold, mangobiche, or a phillipino). thanks for all your preserving these haze gems!
Nice view, I agree although from my limited experience the original G13 used as mom for AG13 is overly dominant outcrossing the AG13. But you have definitely made a valid point.
Following your view i prefer to outcross A5 to a different cultivar as Killer Malawi, not that is a bad line, on the contrary but the Malawi is to much present in the offspring potential and because I don’t favour Malawi so much putting it to use this particular cultivar. We will see what we find in other A5 dom lines so we can choose multiple straight A5 outcrosses to find the best genetic merge to put to use to pollinate AG13. Tbh almost all local older Haze heads here prefer C5 and all Haze C offspring over A5 or Haze A hybrids.
Haze A isn’t so pleasant herb to indulge in for to long, it will fuck up yr emotional & mental stability severely in the long run while C5 or other straight up Haze C F1 hybrids are much better toking longer periods. Haze C pedigree is much more friendly while still carries the OHaze power. Her overall potential & pleasure to smoke daily without the heavyness of HzA hybrids. and hardness
StickyBandit
Well-known member
Sorry to go off topic, but do you have a haze recommendation for long term smoking? Thankyou
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cool thank you for the interesting perspective. sounds as tho haze A may be better suited to combine with haze c progeny or nh outcrosses and then select to the C side.ive found quite a few very interesting options for outcrosses in the phillipines, png and a northern laos from the khmu hill tribe. they all hold intense pine/lemon exagerated terpene profiles. plus some cool orange/camphene types in cambodia. seems like these indo pacific high humidity monsoon climates could be an untapped breeders tool box. i saw that when mad mac put a5 to sams haze an entreily different phenotype appeared growing sky high with long swooping thin rubbery stems. i see alot of those types in the outback haze x north vietnam im growing now very distinct. haze rules!
Cactus Squatter
Well-known member
I have not had a bad tolerance build with the A5 haze crosses like I do with others. For me C5 crosses hit me harder initially but I build a tolerance to them quicker, where as A5 comes on a little slower but I can keep smoking it all the time and feel it.
It might just be one of those personal things though.
it's quite easy to find A5 Haze phenos in Killer A5 Haze, growers looking for maximum raw potency, strongest and longest lasting (also most intoxicating and hardest) effects, without changing much A5 Haze original terp profile should choose Killer A5 Haze. On the other hand, those looking for Haze A terps with clearest, non-celing effects (and without the rudeness and intoxicating effects of A5, NL5 or Malawi) should try Thai A5 Haze: it's very Haze A dominant for terps and Thai-Haze genetics shine for effects, without dirty and heavy NL5 effects. The A5 Haze crosses with Oldtimer's Haze (Green Haze 19 A5 and Purple Haze 23 A5) work similar for effects than Thai A5 Haze, although in both usually Oldtimer's Haze terps are equally present as Haze A terps.
Piff_cat I also like to fantasize first with potential new hybrids and new blends, and i think it's important to do so as a first step to motivate the creativity and direction of the breeder, (same as a writer would do before start writing a book). But if you are really serious into understanding the lines you are working with, you must experience deeply first each line separate, then make as many outcrosses with each line as possible to understand how it works in hybrids, and lastly once you have decided to blend 2 different lines into 1 line, then figure out how is the best way to combine both lines (find best 1:1 possible combo, to put it short).
All these steps already take lot of time and efforts (easily 5-10 years unless you are LP and you focus lots of resources to such projects, which by the way very few LPs do, most of them are mainly into growing proven elite clones without doing much real breeding from their side).
Next step would be what you mention, produce polyhybrids with your best hybrid lines to try to reach results and new combinations that original P1 lines and previous F1 hybrids didn't produce.
Most seed producers take the fast, easy way and go directly to this last step, crossing polyhybrids with other polyhybrids (without even understanding how they are using the lines involved).
Piff_cat I also like to fantasize first with potential new hybrids and new blends, and i think it's important to do so as a first step to motivate the creativity and direction of the breeder, (same as a writer would do before start writing a book). But if you are really serious into understanding the lines you are working with, you must experience deeply first each line separate, then make as many outcrosses with each line as possible to understand how it works in hybrids, and lastly once you have decided to blend 2 different lines into 1 line, then figure out how is the best way to combine both lines (find best 1:1 possible combo, to put it short).
All these steps already take lot of time and efforts (easily 5-10 years unless you are LP and you focus lots of resources to such projects, which by the way very few LPs do, most of them are mainly into growing proven elite clones without doing much real breeding from their side).
Next step would be what you mention, produce polyhybrids with your best hybrid lines to try to reach results and new combinations that original P1 lines and previous F1 hybrids didn't produce.
Most seed producers take the fast, easy way and go directly to this last step, crossing polyhybrids with other polyhybrids (without even understanding how they are using the lines involved).
StickyBandit
Well-known member
@Snipp I tried freezing pollen and it seems to work https://www.icmag.com/threads/stick...-chutney-royal-gorilla.18050602/post-18114810
thanks for the excellent advice it rings true. i have grown my fair share of nevil haze hybrid types but have not had chance to grow any true landraces so far so im in the begining stages of the sativa breeding. ive always been drawn to your green ot haze i think it could provide a stable baseline for outcrosses while still having enough diversity for line breeding. although many people want to do the purple haze, to me the green types which youve mentioned having colombian gold profiles, could serve a haze breeder very well. high ocimene, vigorous growth and production could compliment the darker leathery haze A types. i was very happy to see you offering the green haze 19 x a5. another facet of this project could be to incorporate tropicals extreme haze. im sure your familiar, the long flowering female they found in the f3 91 nl5 x haze C was mated with a different green ot haze male that seems to pass on great qualities to progeny. so maybe developing parallel lines, building diversity within, and then look for synergistic double f1s among the 2 a/c haze males . thanks for the time
Out of the two versions of Thai A5 you are offering, which version would you recommend to find the best of these clear, no-ceiling Thai-Haze examples? Feminized or Regular?
Maple_Flail
Well-known member
I would hazard to guess the Regular Version would have a better chance, not by a landslide but 3 successive generations of males vs 1 generation of reversed females (unless I read the descriptions incorrectly) also assuming you may not get seeds from all three males in a single 10 pack.
simple math 2-3 rolls of the dice roll line up thai dominant recessives on most days beats 1 roll. not every day.. but most days.
Are the NL5 genes nearly totally recessive in the Thai-A5 cross? has it even been out long enough for any to F2 runs to be done outside of in-house testing? I can see some Keeners being midway though an F2 run if done with open pollination, however I'm assuming most are just rerunning selections from their first runs, yet to go to F2.
if so it could be a Very interesting breeding tool, I've i'm not mistaken thai x a5 is technically triple Thai.. The Thai in O haze is different than Thai in NL5 (assuming this to be, afghan {afghan x thai} atleast according to Maddfarmer) also Presuming Ace Chiang Mai Thai is also atleast slightly Different Thai than those previously mentioned.
What I want to know is if there are recessive potential for the Heavy effect of NL5 without the Dirty, stupefying effects due to additional Thai Input, would also love to see what an excellent male of That x A5 would do with an Old lavender or Blueberry/Temple Flo mother.
as a post scriptium. I am, chasing a effect from a Pink kush crossed to Ghost Train haze that seems to be long gone now, with less Stupefying effect. Basically looking for extreme THC with trace CBC and CBN also CBG for good measure LOL
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The nevils wreck male used by rare dankness is an absolute beast when it comes to passing on cbg and cbc. Whatever old Thai is in the wreck segregated with the nh and routinely puts up 2 plus percent cbg. Very good breeding nh male was selected from 15 progeny tested nh f2
Hi @Snipp i'm not an expert on the matter (since 99 % of times prefer to coordinate from clone the chosen parental plants to always pollinate with fresh pollen), but i have had good results storing ONLY the pollen with a bit of gel silica (in a very dry, clean and hygienic environment) inside sealed lab vials and stored in the dark inside the fridge with 5ºC temps, and stored pollen was fertile at least for months.
@draztik @Maple_Flail I have tagged and replied you in the Thai A5 Haze thread.
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