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Justiceman's Root Health Tutorial
- Thread starter justiceman
- Start date
Apologies about some of the late reply's here. I've been busy but I have a new run going on in my journal at the moment(finally right?). Feel free to check it out fellow blades.
The coco around here generally comes in a standard ratio although I'm unsure what it is. Mostly pith and just a little bit of fibers is the ticket with nothing else in it. Fibers don't hold on to nutrients like the pith does.
I'm interested to hear what makes one aerated and other a water retainer. Is the aerated coco mixed with perlite perhaps? If so both are good. I prefer 100% coco but coco/perlite mixes work very well. coco/perlite mixes tend to need even more frequent irrigation.
Right on. Coco is awesome I hope everything turned out well.
Yup feeds everyday in coco is a necessity. You might be seeing funky growth from .7EC. It's slightly high for seedlings as this stuff goes a long way but hard to say without pictures.
Thanks! I do not watch my VPD. I would like to but my room isn't dialed in to that level of environmental control at this time. My temps/humidity usually hover around 66-76F currently with humidity hovering pretty much around 48-55% if I recall correctly.
It's usually hovering around 5.8-6.0. No airtstones in my res I just have a small submersible pump that turns on once or twice a day to move the water around a bit.
You know what they say. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Right on bobbo.
No problem. I'm glad you like it!
You will just keep on going.
I know that you can get coco pith(the main bulk of coco coir) mixed with more or less coco fibers(looks like thick animal hair) to adjust the drainage rate but it sound strange to me that you have an aerated option and retaining option.
The coco around here generally comes in a standard ratio although I'm unsure what it is. Mostly pith and just a little bit of fibers is the ticket with nothing else in it. Fibers don't hold on to nutrients like the pith does.
I'm interested to hear what makes one aerated and other a water retainer. Is the aerated coco mixed with perlite perhaps? If so both are good. I prefer 100% coco but coco/perlite mixes work very well. coco/perlite mixes tend to need even more frequent irrigation.
I used perlite with coconut and I did not like it.
Already 100% coconut have achieved better results with the hempy bucket.
I want to start a new attempt with dtw
The aerated coconut I say has mixture with the coconut + granulated massacapo.
And the other retention is only 100% granulated.
These are the coconut I say
aerated option http://www.amafibra.com.br/produtos/misto/
retaining option: http://www.amafibra.com.br/produtos/granulado/
Already 100% coconut have achieved better results with the hempy bucket.
I want to start a new attempt with dtw
The aerated coconut I say has mixture with the coconut + granulated massacapo.
And the other retention is only 100% granulated.
These are the coconut I say
aerated option http://www.amafibra.com.br/produtos/misto/
retaining option: http://www.amafibra.com.br/produtos/granulado/
I'm unable to read about those products. Mind telling me what granulated massacapo is? If they are anything like what sethimus posted I'd go with the medium that has less fiber and chips(forgot about those), but I'm sure both are great depending on your application and needs/wants for irrigation timing.
Just remember that the mix which holds more air will need more frequent feeds.
shishkaboy
>>>>Beanie Man<<<<
Seriously, I had heard about watering coco daily before but something about the way you explained it made it stick. After just a few days of daily drenches and the difference is clear.
Ill post a pic as soon as I can see roots.
Ill post a pic as soon as I can see roots.
Goats
Active member
good thread.
i run smart pots of pure coco in flood and drain using jacks 321. when watering only once/day i got bad salt buildup.
i flood for 10 minutes, 3 times/day now and plants are loving it. anyone saying watering coco daily or more isn't correct hasn't tried it i think.
i run smart pots of pure coco in flood and drain using jacks 321. when watering only once/day i got bad salt buildup.
i flood for 10 minutes, 3 times/day now and plants are loving it. anyone saying watering coco daily or more isn't correct hasn't tried it i think.
I'm glad to hear it!
Right on Goats. Indeed the more frequent the feeds the easier it is to maintain IMO
Thank you! I wanted to make this tutorial to help give back to the community that taught me so much.
---------------------------------------------
Might as well post up a few root shots from the latest run while I'm here. Coco Hempy's are fun. Even the roots that sat in the passive reservoir stayed white and healthy because the oxygen levels were renewed daily.
Hello Justiceman,
trying out your methode of watering more than one time a day with no success at all.
But i dont understand why bc its easy to follow and there is no room to do it wrong.
Low EC, right PH, constanly providing the roots with fresh water.
But what happend is the plants look saturated, getting lighter green day by day and do nothing instead of having a fast grow rate.
My understanding is that its unnessesary to wait till the coco drys, even a little bit. wich means pot size doesnt matter bc its wet all the time anyway.
Also plant age and stage shoulnd matter for the same reasons.
I am kind of helpless in this situation.
Should i keep feeding and watering twice a day and watching them dying or will they stabilize under this regime?
trying out your methode of watering more than one time a day with no success at all.
But i dont understand why bc its easy to follow and there is no room to do it wrong.
Low EC, right PH, constanly providing the roots with fresh water.
But what happend is the plants look saturated, getting lighter green day by day and do nothing instead of having a fast grow rate.
My understanding is that its unnessesary to wait till the coco drys, even a little bit. wich means pot size doesnt matter bc its wet all the time anyway.
Also plant age and stage shoulnd matter for the same reasons.
I am kind of helpless in this situation.
Should i keep feeding and watering twice a day and watching them dying or will they stabilize under this regime?
Feel free to send me a PM and I'll try provide what advice I can give. Don't forget to include the nutrients you are using, nutrient strength, water quality, what brand of coco, container size, lighting, room temperature, etc. Also pictures of the plants would be good too.
Yes letting coco dry out is not good but pot size still does play a role in terms of nutrient accumulation and waste. If I put a small clone into a 5gallon pot of coco it's going to take quite a bit of nutrient and water to keep the pot moist but the root system won't cover all of the area for a while, and although the ratio of nutrients is low there are potentially more nutrients in terms of surface area than the plant can use. At best too big of a pot while they are small is a waste of water/nutrient. At worst nutrient accumulation happens in areas where there are not roots to use the previous introduction of nutrients. Small plants in big containers can be done, but I just don't see any advantages to doing so.
If your plants look saturated and are getting lighter green day by day and do nothing it is because the coco was kept too wet for the roots to grow. Period.
I started growing in coco way back when you had to wash the hell out of it, about 15 years now, and THEE single biggest reason growers have problems such as yours is from too wet coco.
When your transplant from cloned to pot, from pot to bigger pot, etc, you should always let the coco dry out a little at first or until you start noticing roots poking out the bottom or the pot requires water daily. Look in my album...
You tried one way and are having complete failure, now try it another way. Without a picture I couldn’t tell you if your plants are too far gone so I suggest starting from clone. I’ll wait right here for the results...
FJ2000
Active member
Great Thread,
Im in Cyco wormix and using the Head's 6/9 but at a diluted rate so I'm at 390ppm (GH Flora w/ tap water at .1 Bluelab pen reading 0ppm)
I'm in the 6th week from seed and have transplanted into 3 gallon smart pots under 400w 4000K MH.
Question is am I holding them back at this diluted nute regiment? I'm not seeing any blatant
deficiencies. Could I see faster growth with the full 6/9? Im under the impression that growth rates are more a function of light/CO2 levels and giving them more nutes is not going to drastically increase growth rates, is my thinking flawed? Thanks for the help!
"People on ludes should not drive"
Im in Cyco wormix and using the Head's 6/9 but at a diluted rate so I'm at 390ppm (GH Flora w/ tap water at .1 Bluelab pen reading 0ppm)
I'm in the 6th week from seed and have transplanted into 3 gallon smart pots under 400w 4000K MH.
Question is am I holding them back at this diluted nute regiment? I'm not seeing any blatant
deficiencies. Could I see faster growth with the full 6/9? Im under the impression that growth rates are more a function of light/CO2 levels and giving them more nutes is not going to drastically increase growth rates, is my thinking flawed? Thanks for the help!
"People on ludes should not drive"
Thank you so far justiceman.
I sticked to the regime and watered two times a day but increased the EC slightly.
It turned out it needed time for adaptation. These thick white roots started to develop and the plants got a new appearance, healthy and deep shiny green.
That brings me to the conclusion there must be a difference between a watering/drying system and a hydro root system.
To switch from one to the other leads to problems wich could make someone thinking that watering/drying is the only path to go.
In my cricumstances i knew water quality, fertilizer, climate and coco coir work because of previous experiences, thats why i kept doing the regime according to justiceman.
Only two question were left:
is the outcome in any way better and the increased work justified in comparison to my experiences?
And is it possible to switch back to watering/drying from multible watering a day without having the problems unlike switching the other way around?
"Small plants in big containers can be done, but I just don't see any advantages to doing so."
I guess no need for repotting could be an advantage. But big pots need more space wich would be also unnecessary in the first weeks.
I sticked to the regime and watered two times a day but increased the EC slightly.
It turned out it needed time for adaptation. These thick white roots started to develop and the plants got a new appearance, healthy and deep shiny green.
That brings me to the conclusion there must be a difference between a watering/drying system and a hydro root system.
To switch from one to the other leads to problems wich could make someone thinking that watering/drying is the only path to go.
In my cricumstances i knew water quality, fertilizer, climate and coco coir work because of previous experiences, thats why i kept doing the regime according to justiceman.
Only two question were left:
is the outcome in any way better and the increased work justified in comparison to my experiences?
And is it possible to switch back to watering/drying from multible watering a day without having the problems unlike switching the other way around?
"Small plants in big containers can be done, but I just don't see any advantages to doing so."
I guess no need for repotting could be an advantage. But big pots need more space wich would be also unnecessary in the first weeks.
I'm glad to hear things are working out.
Based off what previously happened(yellowing) and the fact that you kept the regiment the same but increased EC leads me to believe that the problem was not how often they were being saturated but the fact they were deficient in nutrients. Low EC is safe but too low = slow yellow growth if everything else is in check.
If your problem was merely weak nutrients then your plants would’ve shown deficiencies all over the place. What you described was a plant that was struggling to root because the medium was too wet for root development. Period.
Think about it, common sense tells you that weak nutrients would cause deficiencies. You described a general light green to your plants, common symptom of too wet medium. I modded the Nutrients/Fertilizers forum since its inception for several years, weak nutrients would give you a heck of a lot more problems than what you described.
But hey, keep on keeping on...
Plan'ts don't struggle to root because the root system/medium is too wet. They struggle to root when enough oxygen isn't present or else DWC, NFT, Aerocloners etc. would never work. They also struggle to root when nutrition isn't adequate as well.
There are 2 ways to introduce more oxygen to coco coir. Frequent irrigation which pulls oxygen into the medium, or a "dry period" where oxygen displaces water in the medium that has evaporated or been used. It's not that the latter cannot be done. It's just easier to run into nutrient accumulation when going with that method.
The worst thing one can do aside from pure nutrient accumulation is to go somewhere in between the two irrigation styles IMO. It happens when the grower is fearful of frequent feeds. Not feeding often enough to introduce new oxygen and not letting it dry out enough to introduce new oxygen. It's a good equation for rot. That being said available oxygen is the key to good roots for any grow style
