the 'best' weed we have ever grown was a 'knockoff' from nirvana...jock horror... and it was 2bucks a seed.. unfort. didn't take cuttings (really fuk'd up )...
afterwards we bought JH from sensi... compared to nirvana's JH, it was a waste of $$$...
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Jack Herer
- Thread starter theclearspot
- Start date
the 'best' weed we have ever grown was a 'knockoff' from nirvana...jock horror... and it was 2bucks a seed.. unfort. didn't take cuttings (really fuk'd up )...
afterwards we bought JH from sensi... compared to nirvana's JH, it was a waste of $$$...
That's the funny thing about Nirvana... because they used to be one of the first F2 and knock-off selling seedbanks, they also used to offer really interesting seed stocks. His old Jack Herer, Skunk, Haze19 X Skunk, White Rhino, AK47 and many others were made during the golden era of the dutch cannabis, and the rest was seed stock from Wernard's Positronics seedbank when it went bankrupt. So very legit parent plants and genetics.
Then it's perfectly understandable that the JH and other strains they used to have were much better than the modern offerings from the original seedbanks. Nowadays you can't really trust most classic dutch seedbanks. I'd definitely pay for one of those old Nirvana packets! Shame they discontinued most of the classic strains because of all the new trendy strains. Now even the seeds are overpriced, back in the days all the packs were half the price!
Vibes.
RIP Jack.
Yes RIP to both the legendary man and this legendary mix named in his honor . Apparently they are both gone even though the legacy lives on.
Right on , I would still grow today's Sensi JH if passed my way. I would never invest much into it though, as the verdict most hold, is the same as yours and chances are it may not be to my standards compared to the Jack Herer I know. Same applies for pheno selection too though.
It is like this with most seed lines of yesteryear. Nothing remains the same, as everything changes in due time. I hate how this cause and effect has taken place with land races around the world. Very few if any are the same now as they where 20 years ago. Thanks to wars, drug lords and rogue dutch pollen and many other factors. This is how Cannabis and its co-evolution with humans works. It all changes one way or another by someones hands or the wind and nature and sometimes by both forces and others not in ones control.
Knock offs to me are far from the F2's mentioned, those are just reworked in a true sense by someone else other than the original breeder. And all too often they can be better or easily reworked towards your own selection. Especially with a diverse hybrid like with JH. It is a very diverse mix with many possibilities in pheno selection and this was a major bonus for the JH fan . F2 opens up even more possibility and I would have been like a pig in the mud had I had my hands on the seeds you mentioned.
True Knockoffs in my humble opinion are the works of those Like Greenhouse seeds and others not worthy as well of mentioning.
Peace
Jack Herer after all is based on Nevil's own breeding works and leftovers at the Castle, so who should we consider JH's breeder?
Super Silver Haze is Nev's own version of Jack Herer from the time he left the Seed Bank and sold Cannabis Castle to Ben Dronkers. In fact Sensi Seeds won the Cannabis Cup in 1994 with exactly the same cut as Greenhouse did later in 98, 99 with their Super Silver Haze. But the SSH it's in my opinion a much better and predictable strain or an improved version of JH if you prefer. Want more variety because of all those phenos of JH? Make F2 and grow a decent number. You'll find better keepers for sure! Same breeder, same family of strains, same high, same terpenes, same or better parent stock: they're all dutch haze hybrids based on NL#5/HazeC and Skunk/HazeC from Nevil. So why crying for the good old JH?
This is not a big loss/drama for the community like when the old 70s landraces and heirlooms got extinct decades ago, right?
Super Silver Haze is Nev's own version of Jack Herer from the time he left the Seed Bank and sold Cannabis Castle to Ben Dronkers. In fact Sensi Seeds won the Cannabis Cup in 1994 with exactly the same cut as Greenhouse did later in 98, 99 with their Super Silver Haze. But the SSH it's in my opinion a much better and predictable strain or an improved version of JH if you prefer. Want more variety because of all those phenos of JH? Make F2 and grow a decent number. You'll find better keepers for sure! Same breeder, same family of strains, same high, same terpenes, same or better parent stock: they're all dutch haze hybrids based on NL#5/HazeC and Skunk/HazeC from Nevil. So why crying for the good old JH?
This is not a big loss/drama for the community like when the old 70s landraces and heirlooms got extinct decades ago, right?
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GlandualFever
Active member
For me the difference between ssh and the jack herer cut that I know and had (and will have again soon I hope) is quite a big one in some ways, and very small in others. Strange that. I dont even know if I can put my finger on it.
But Jack produced a very greasy resin, one that immediately left a sheen on your fingers when touched. It also had a slightly skunkier influence in taste IMO, without losing any sativa taste and quality of high. The high was soaring, shooting, altitude sickness type buzz with an indistinguishable ceiling to the high. The flavour was full, sweet, incence type smell, with fruitiness in the fold. Toasty I used to call the smell, and guaranteed the smoke would tingle my nostril hairs on exhale (a trait of the ones that I find strong and flavourful).
Super Silver Haze to me kind of lacks the oomph that the jack had. While it has an improved flavour, more tropical imo, the indica traits shine through on the buzz with Jack Herer. Jack displayed a lot of stretch in flower, a bit more than SSH. The buds on Jack were more foxtail, and joined together up the stem, then swelling to long foxy colas. The Super Silver displayed more indica looking bud in overall structure, but on closer look it has that stacked calyx that haze often displays. Where the Jack was so resinous, I felt that on drying it was actually the resin that accounted for the weight, not the bud/leaf matter. With the ssh I kind of feel its heavier on the haze expression in some ways. Jack definitely displays haze no doubt. But a little more Indica POW!
But Jack produced a very greasy resin, one that immediately left a sheen on your fingers when touched. It also had a slightly skunkier influence in taste IMO, without losing any sativa taste and quality of high. The high was soaring, shooting, altitude sickness type buzz with an indistinguishable ceiling to the high. The flavour was full, sweet, incence type smell, with fruitiness in the fold. Toasty I used to call the smell, and guaranteed the smoke would tingle my nostril hairs on exhale (a trait of the ones that I find strong and flavourful).
Super Silver Haze to me kind of lacks the oomph that the jack had. While it has an improved flavour, more tropical imo, the indica traits shine through on the buzz with Jack Herer. Jack displayed a lot of stretch in flower, a bit more than SSH. The buds on Jack were more foxtail, and joined together up the stem, then swelling to long foxy colas. The Super Silver displayed more indica looking bud in overall structure, but on closer look it has that stacked calyx that haze often displays. Where the Jack was so resinous, I felt that on drying it was actually the resin that accounted for the weight, not the bud/leaf matter. With the ssh I kind of feel its heavier on the haze expression in some ways. Jack definitely displays haze no doubt. But a little more Indica POW!
Just some thoughts on Jack Herer.
Here is a copy paste of a post from Ace seeds, post #108 on the Frankie's Incense Haze thread.
"ACE Seeds noted four strains most likely to contain the Frankincense / Sandalwood traits -
Panama,(which borders Santa Marta, Colombian, the home of Colombian Gold),
Nepalese,
Kali Mist and,
Haze.
I've experienced Frankincense traits/effects in Colombian (Gold?) haze, Nepalese Temple Hash, in the 1970's and recently in Jack Herer. The Nepalese Temple Hash that came thru NYC from late 1960's - mid 1970's was always Frankincense / Sandalwood taste in the smoke ~ with a spiritual effect. "
After doing some research on the parents of Apollo 13. What I found is that both parents of Apollo 13 have Jack Herer in there back ground. Below is a copy of a post that I made on another site.
"I don't know if I have talked about this before but the Apollo 13 is very special. It has a very special pheno, lets call it the B pheno (B for Bomb). When I first grew the Apollo13 I gave some of these first buds to my very best friend and he smokes all day long. He has been my friend since we were kids. After smoking some of this bud he came up to me and he was very mad and asked me what I put in his buds. He told me that pot dose not do what that pot did to him. He got the B pheno. I've always bred all the males to all the females not to limit the gene pool, never any selective breeding. I'm sure the Apollo13 around these days has less of a chance to produce the B pheno and so the older your seeds the better your chances are. I'm not sure just how rare it will be to find it and I know it will take some work but at least when working with Apollo13 keep your eyes open."
Here are is a copy paste of an old Apollo 13 post on another site.
"Apollo 13 will never be available again, its C.88 x Genius and it is killer -it's so strong I have had people accuse me of slipping something in the joint- it goes like this "shit that can't be pot, no way I can handle the Chronic (yeah right) no, no more dude I'm fine", drop em and grow em."
There is a very special pheno and it's in Jack Herer and it's in Apollo 13 and it will kick your ass (in a good way). Later, Stash
Here is a copy paste of a post from Ace seeds, post #108 on the Frankie's Incense Haze thread.
"ACE Seeds noted four strains most likely to contain the Frankincense / Sandalwood traits -
Panama,(which borders Santa Marta, Colombian, the home of Colombian Gold),
Nepalese,
Kali Mist and,
Haze.
I've experienced Frankincense traits/effects in Colombian (Gold?) haze, Nepalese Temple Hash, in the 1970's and recently in Jack Herer. The Nepalese Temple Hash that came thru NYC from late 1960's - mid 1970's was always Frankincense / Sandalwood taste in the smoke ~ with a spiritual effect. "
After doing some research on the parents of Apollo 13. What I found is that both parents of Apollo 13 have Jack Herer in there back ground. Below is a copy of a post that I made on another site.
"I don't know if I have talked about this before but the Apollo 13 is very special. It has a very special pheno, lets call it the B pheno (B for Bomb). When I first grew the Apollo13 I gave some of these first buds to my very best friend and he smokes all day long. He has been my friend since we were kids. After smoking some of this bud he came up to me and he was very mad and asked me what I put in his buds. He told me that pot dose not do what that pot did to him. He got the B pheno. I've always bred all the males to all the females not to limit the gene pool, never any selective breeding. I'm sure the Apollo13 around these days has less of a chance to produce the B pheno and so the older your seeds the better your chances are. I'm not sure just how rare it will be to find it and I know it will take some work but at least when working with Apollo13 keep your eyes open."
Here are is a copy paste of an old Apollo 13 post on another site.
"Apollo 13 will never be available again, its C.88 x Genius and it is killer -it's so strong I have had people accuse me of slipping something in the joint- it goes like this "shit that can't be pot, no way I can handle the Chronic (yeah right) no, no more dude I'm fine", drop em and grow em."
There is a very special pheno and it's in Jack Herer and it's in Apollo 13 and it will kick your ass (in a good way). Later, Stash
theclearspot
Active member
Sensi Seeds are doing Jack Herer ....£134 a packet of 10 ?!Think I will have to find it elsewhere folks....
theclearspot
Active member
anyone know a good Jack Herer besides the Sensi Seeds one?
buy a pack or two of jock horror from nirvana.. not sure how much nirvana gets for a pack these days but...we found ... and didn't taking cuttings (stupid..stupid) a great plant.. it was the best weed we have ever grown... way better then the jack from sensi which at the time was 7/8 x more expensive... we grew sensi's JH too
I must say tho after finding that great jock horror, we bought another 2 packs, looking for that representation again, and after going thru over one of the packs, did not find it again.. we still have some jock seeds left, and one day will continue the hunt...
theclearspot
Active member
Thanks thats interesting; I tried Nirvana seeds but they dont seem to have it. Will keep looking...
B
Bob Green
When Nevil was on the MNS forum he stated that SSH and Jack H where the same line exactly the same parents used. Said Ben D changed the name to Herrer but the same cuts make up both. He said the cup winning cut of JH and SSH are one and the same as well. But then again he claimed a lot of things.
theclearspot
Active member
I bought some Jack Herer from Greenhouse Seeds, anyone grown them? Good bad or ugly?
i got a 5-pack in my fridge, has been there for years. since GH afaik didn't use the same strains that make up the original JH (they used red skunk) i never felt especially motivated to grow them. had sensi's and homegrown fantaseeds jack in the meantime and they were quite good.
^ couple shots of the jh-13 pheno out of stash's old, unworked a-13 seeds preservation run. because these a-13 seeds have not been extensively worked they should contain very valuable old skool a-13 genetics definitely worth preserving. the tag denotes the branch that was pollinated with one of the skunk looking a-13 males. i'm out of the haze leaning male pollen as it was used on earlier a-13 females.
this a-13 line broke down into a lot of separate phenotypes. i did not have a lot of jh males and females. i'm forced to cross the pollen i have into the females i have.
all germinated phenos of the a-13 that are not hermi ridden are being used in this a-13 strain preservation project.
^ one indica female, couple female skunk looking female phenos and two jack herer looking females. the males were one strong haze looking male, two skunk looking males.
in addition to the a-13 strain preservation run i'm also doing some in line breeding for my own purposes.
