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It's workin it's way up my ladies
- Thread starter icky420
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G
Guest
^^^This is true, but to help a failing plant like that I like to use FF Grow big at about 1/4 strength in a foliar spray along with about 1/4 tsp of epsom per quart. Try not to get too much on the buds but drench the fan leaves. It won't green them back up but it will help the plant get the NPK and the micros it needs right away. You don't have to have FF growbig, any fert w/ micros should be good for this as long as you use it at a low dose.
I foliar feed w/ this stuff all through veg and 1/2 way through bloom at least 3 - 4 times a week and plain water every other time. Sometimes they get plain water twice a day on off fert days to help open them up and wash the leaves. Since I started doing this my plants have never looked better.
Jack
I foliar feed w/ this stuff all through veg and 1/2 way through bloom at least 3 - 4 times a week and plain water every other time. Sometimes they get plain water twice a day on off fert days to help open them up and wash the leaves. Since I started doing this my plants have never looked better.
Jack
NserUame said:
word. sometimes it is less complex than it seems.
edit: going to translate this just in case: the yellowing and dying off of the lower leaves is normal if the new growth is growing well and nice. this plant will drop yellow leaves during certain times.
plus, regarding ph up/down shit, if you are growing organic,
just worry that your ph is between 6 and 7 using some ph strip and you'll be fine. the less you do, the better, do not use any preventive methods at all, that is stupid!!!!! seriously, a healthy plant grown properly should not need anything besides its good organic nutricious soil, water, wind and sun/lights. that's it.
be good man,.
much peace!
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Erin Kerrik
Member
How does one tell the difference between N and Mg deficiencies? I'd have guessed she just needed N.
Of all the advice I've read in this thread, I lean towards what PazVerdeRadical said.
"sometimes things are less complex then they seem"
From the first set of pictures...they look rootbound and overwatered, then looking at the next set of pictures and reading all you've done to these plants, they are probably suffering from receiving way too many "treatments" way too often. Again, they are looking very rootbound to me (in too small of a planter).
Often a plant needing potting up will display what looks like nute uptake problems, where attempts at foliar feeding will make it spring back for a few days only to fall back into the same old symptoms. Rootboundness leads to root disease eventually, but lets hope they're not that far gone yet.
If I were you, I'd back to hell off on all the treatments, pot em up (even though they're in flowering now arrgh), and have a good look at those roots for signs of root disease from all those way too frequent drenches they've seen.
If the roots look healthy, transplant and water them sparingly and let that soil dry out more between watering cycles. Feed them after they bounce back, but keep in mind that in flowering the plants will require a lot less water then in veg growth.
"sometimes things are less complex then they seem"
From the first set of pictures...they look rootbound and overwatered, then looking at the next set of pictures and reading all you've done to these plants, they are probably suffering from receiving way too many "treatments" way too often. Again, they are looking very rootbound to me (in too small of a planter).
Often a plant needing potting up will display what looks like nute uptake problems, where attempts at foliar feeding will make it spring back for a few days only to fall back into the same old symptoms. Rootboundness leads to root disease eventually, but lets hope they're not that far gone yet.
If I were you, I'd back to hell off on all the treatments, pot em up (even though they're in flowering now arrgh), and have a good look at those roots for signs of root disease from all those way too frequent drenches they've seen.
If the roots look healthy, transplant and water them sparingly and let that soil dry out more between watering cycles. Feed them after they bounce back, but keep in mind that in flowering the plants will require a lot less water then in veg growth.
I've always disliked EJ because of the problems with ph but there is a better way to balance them and that is to bubble your fertilizer mix overnight and you'll balance out the ph, it will work it's way about 1.5-2 point in roughly 24hrs.
Never correct EJ, it's ph is easily swayed and using ph up or down is too agressive, as the EJ breaks down and it's ph fluxes your plants will flip out.
Your best bet when using EJ (and there are far better organic ferts IMHO) you had better use 2TBS dolomite lime added to your soil and EWC as a soil bacteria sampling.
It looks alot like lockout because the stems are purpling a bit and it also looks like an N def.
Remember that soil microbes do all the work in organics, they produce the fertilizer not your ferts, every time you flush the soil you take them with you and then you stall the plant especially at this stage where a slightly small container (like yours) and a slighly stretchy plant (like yours) make them work overtime to supply enough nutes.
If you do flush then make an activated microbe tea (PM for instuctions), this will repopulate and feed your soil at the same time, this will reset your soil, keep flushing for the chem users.
BTW CalMag is not organic but it could be a big help here as it contains a good dose of N and they could use it, it mostly looks like your overmothered them, don't sweat ph next time and use the lime it has everything you need ph wise.
Suby
Never correct EJ, it's ph is easily swayed and using ph up or down is too agressive, as the EJ breaks down and it's ph fluxes your plants will flip out.
Your best bet when using EJ (and there are far better organic ferts IMHO) you had better use 2TBS dolomite lime added to your soil and EWC as a soil bacteria sampling.
It looks alot like lockout because the stems are purpling a bit and it also looks like an N def.
Remember that soil microbes do all the work in organics, they produce the fertilizer not your ferts, every time you flush the soil you take them with you and then you stall the plant especially at this stage where a slightly small container (like yours) and a slighly stretchy plant (like yours) make them work overtime to supply enough nutes.
If you do flush then make an activated microbe tea (PM for instuctions), this will repopulate and feed your soil at the same time, this will reset your soil, keep flushing for the chem users.
BTW CalMag is not organic but it could be a big help here as it contains a good dose of N and they could use it, it mostly looks like your overmothered them, don't sweat ph next time and use the lime it has everything you need ph wise.
Suby
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Stoney Bologna
Member
Hi Guys, I thought I'd chime in here if that's ok. This definitely looks similar to magnesium defficiency because of the apparent interveinal chlorosis. But the leaves are drooping and the yellowing started at the lowest leaves and worked its way up.
My money is on overwatering stress.
~Peace
My money is on overwatering stress.
~Peace
icky420
Member
10k said:
I deff can tell you they are not root bound. I just pulled out one of the plants to check it and they are not there yet. Still 1in or so before the bottom. These are almost 2gal pots and my plants are only 18in high. Is that really that bad?
10k said:
I always let the pots go dry in between waterings. Few times, too much.
Suby said:
Oh boy...you dont know how long I have been waiting to here that..For the last 2ys I have been thinkin it was just me. Argh all the troubles. I WILL WIN THIS YET!
P.S I wonder why EJ makes UP/Dwn if its not needed for thier line of products?
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They make ph up and down becayuse it's "supposed" to be hydro organic compatible, I have tried hydro organics and they suck, your better off in soil as it buffers the availbility of nutrients over a broader range of ph. (see my gallery for both hydro and soil nutrient charts), in hydro you basically have to adjust ph as uptake is much fussier.
Plus it gets you to buy another 2 bottles at 12$+ a piece.
Look into AgeOld organic of Metanaturals, they are much more stable and less products to buy to make it complete.
Here is something that is totally overstated, letting the pots dry out between waterings, microbes do not like dry conditions and they are your fertilizer munchers remember?
Use 30% perlite by volume of soil mix and you cannot overwater unless you try to.
If you keep a thriving microherd your plants will naturally be healthy even if some factors are not optimal, feed the soil not the plant.
A good standard is having 1 gallon of soil per plant foot, however the more you train and bush your plant out dramatically you'll have to compensate with more soil.
Plus it gets you to buy another 2 bottles at 12$+ a piece.
Look into AgeOld organic of Metanaturals, they are much more stable and less products to buy to make it complete.
Here is something that is totally overstated, letting the pots dry out between waterings, microbes do not like dry conditions and they are your fertilizer munchers remember?
Use 30% perlite by volume of soil mix and you cannot overwater unless you try to.
If you keep a thriving microherd your plants will naturally be healthy even if some factors are not optimal, feed the soil not the plant.
A good standard is having 1 gallon of soil per plant foot, however the more you train and bush your plant out dramatically you'll have to compensate with more soil.
icky420
Member
Based on what has been previosly posted, does anyone have any suggestions on what I should maybe feed my ladies tonight when they wake? I have posted some of my log ^^^. I know they need water tonight, but should I give them anything else. I have another grow thats looking great and I'm trying to focus on them because I'm not sure whats going on. I need some assistance here to try and save this last grow that I will ever use PH up/dwn on.
Pics in a few hr's
Pics in a few hr's
icky420
Member
UPDATE
UPDATE
Well I think they will be ok, they are still growing. I took a pic to show that they WERE root bound.(10K was right
) Thats probably why I was losing all the leaves, on top of not feeding enough. So I'm trying a little something by mixing up the same nutes in different bottles, one normal strength and one double that. I will monitor the plants that I give each to and see how they react. I think the problem was underfeeding all along from seed on up. This is my first time running this strain being that I created it, but worse, I dont have any experience with either of the parent strains. This is all a learning experience so I just hope I learn from this, take my loss, and do something about it next time(I have about 100 seeds anyway) If anyone has any suggestions please post away. I will update as needed.
UPDATE
Well I think they will be ok, they are still growing. I took a pic to show that they WERE root bound.(10K was right
) Thats probably why I was losing all the leaves, on top of not feeding enough. So I'm trying a little something by mixing up the same nutes in different bottles, one normal strength and one double that. I will monitor the plants that I give each to and see how they react. I think the problem was underfeeding all along from seed on up. This is my first time running this strain being that I created it, but worse, I dont have any experience with either of the parent strains. This is all a learning experience so I just hope I learn from this, take my loss, and do something about it next time(I have about 100 seeds anyway) If anyone has any suggestions please post away. I will update as needed.
2
20kw dreams
That is Absolutely NOT Mg deficiency. That IS an N deficiency, a little earlier in flower then should be. I do not however see any other deficiencies. The difference between Mg and N def is that Mg is interveinial chlorosis (yellowing BETWEEN the viens), which is followed by necrotic(dead spots) spots between the viens. This will all happen while viens remain gree, or at least greenER then the spots between the leaves.
N def is the whole leaf, with the vien often times slightly greener, such as in your case.
It is horrible so many people have learned that Mg is the apparent deficiency 100% of the time. If you spray Mg without an Mg deficiency, you can cause problems with calcium, which is assists in N uptake, hence making the problem worse. Mg will also lock out K, which is extremely important to flowering and ion movement within the plant, again, making it worse.
Anyways, solution would be to floiar with a balanced (1-1-1 fertilizer) avoiding the buds. It is possible to green leaves back up. Spray 1/4 of full strength every 3 days, until you see signs of burning. At first sign of any tip burn from foliar, clean leaves with Distilled water.
10k was right in a sense, but I would disagree in another. Being rootbound in itself is not the killer, it is the compaction of soil int he lower layers which usually is the killer, as the roots choke themselves out by taking up all the space for proper air exchange. From seeing the chunky perlite and the quality airspace in your rootball. I think maybe if 10K came back to look at that rootball, he would see that thier is plenty of airspace, hence eliminating the "rootbound" possibility.
Also, while foliar may be a short term fix, it is faster, and should be used. It should also however, be followed up by a strengthening of your nutrients.
The fact is, those plants are not getting enough nutes, due to the heavy rootmass and size of those plants in those little pots. It has manifested itself as an N def, but you are most likely lacking P and K, just not so much that they have shown physical symptoms. Most of you probably do not know, but nutrient deficiency symptoms do not manifest themselves until a plant is VERY deficient in that nutrient. A larger pot would provide more nutrients at the same strength, simply by having more space to hold more nutrients. Since you are probably not going to pot it up, just double your nutes.
2 things that might help next run:
1) Use EJ grow schedule 2 weeks into 12/12.
2) Go a little bit stronger.
You should also consider the possibility that your plants responded well to the ph adjuster, and that due to there increased vigor, they required more nutrients, which were not provided. Just a thought though, you be the judge.
N def is the whole leaf, with the vien often times slightly greener, such as in your case.
It is horrible so many people have learned that Mg is the apparent deficiency 100% of the time. If you spray Mg without an Mg deficiency, you can cause problems with calcium, which is assists in N uptake, hence making the problem worse. Mg will also lock out K, which is extremely important to flowering and ion movement within the plant, again, making it worse.
Anyways, solution would be to floiar with a balanced (1-1-1 fertilizer) avoiding the buds. It is possible to green leaves back up. Spray 1/4 of full strength every 3 days, until you see signs of burning. At first sign of any tip burn from foliar, clean leaves with Distilled water.
10k was right in a sense, but I would disagree in another. Being rootbound in itself is not the killer, it is the compaction of soil int he lower layers which usually is the killer, as the roots choke themselves out by taking up all the space for proper air exchange. From seeing the chunky perlite and the quality airspace in your rootball. I think maybe if 10K came back to look at that rootball, he would see that thier is plenty of airspace, hence eliminating the "rootbound" possibility.
Also, while foliar may be a short term fix, it is faster, and should be used. It should also however, be followed up by a strengthening of your nutrients.
The fact is, those plants are not getting enough nutes, due to the heavy rootmass and size of those plants in those little pots. It has manifested itself as an N def, but you are most likely lacking P and K, just not so much that they have shown physical symptoms. Most of you probably do not know, but nutrient deficiency symptoms do not manifest themselves until a plant is VERY deficient in that nutrient. A larger pot would provide more nutrients at the same strength, simply by having more space to hold more nutrients. Since you are probably not going to pot it up, just double your nutes.
2 things that might help next run:
1) Use EJ grow schedule 2 weeks into 12/12.
2) Go a little bit stronger.
You should also consider the possibility that your plants responded well to the ph adjuster, and that due to there increased vigor, they required more nutrients, which were not provided. Just a thought though, you be the judge.
