Is there such thing as popping seeds too early for outdoors?

[Team Microbe]

I heard that if you start plants too early in the year, it fucks them up when you bring them outside in June (or whenever your outdoor season begins)


Is this true?! I wanted to start main-lining a few chosen girls in the next few months but will hold off if it'll be counter-productive.


Thanks for clearing up the confusion folks!

 

[bayarea925]

The only issue could be shock from a transplant.

 

[Classic Seeds]

hi its not all apples and oranges your question if the days are still getting shorter your plants will start to flower and stop as the days get longer if you put them out with 18 hours of light time and there is 13 hours outdoors lets say increasing till summer eqinox your plants will go into bloom when it starts to drops again your going to have messed up plants because the first buds will never mature and the second will have to grow out from them in veg .its better to match the light cycle outdoors to when you want to put them out as long as the days are getting longer aloha cls

 

[Team Microbe]

hi its not all apples and oranges your question if the days are still getting shorter your plants will start to flower and stop as the days get longer if you put them out with 18 hours of light time and there is 13 hours outdoors lets say increasing till summer eqinox your plants will go into bloom when it starts to drops again your going to have messed up plants because the first buds will never mature and the second will have to grow out from them in veg .its better to match the light cycle outdoors to when you want to put them out as long as the days are getting longer aloha cls

oooooh I see, so basically look up the sunrise and sunset of my area and match my timer to that every week? It makes perfect sense, thanks for the advice man. Does everyone do this? Idk why I've never thought of that before....

 

[idiit]

I heard that if you start plants too early in the year, it fucks them up when you bring them outside in June

^^ if you have a large enough container for the plant to be transplanted from it should not go into "root constriction syndrome". some plants start to preflower just from constricted roots. another variable in the calculus.

idiit

 

[moondawg]

Team, i too considered getting a big jump on the season about 20 yrs ago and set out on a 4=6 yr research project aimed at determining daylight lengths and their effects on cannabis and its different stages of veg, flower, ets.

Where to start......

First, remember that hybrid cannabis, all varieties that i can find, trigger into flower at a daylength between 14.25 and 14. 5 hrs of light. At 14.75 hrs of light, cannabis plants will not attempt to flower. At 14.25, the plants will begin to flower. Inside or out, those are the daylenths that trigger flower onset in cannabis.

Here are some other laws about pregrowing and vegging.

The longer the plant is pregrown, the greater the negative influences it will experience and the longer it will take to flower. While a plant is in the veg stage, it produces auxins. Auxins have a number of funtions but onee of its influences is to slow or delay flowering. The longer the plant is in veg, the more the hormone builds and the greater its impact on flowering. Mother Nature didnt intend for cannabis to be pregrown and ther are some negative aspects when you tinker with her.

When proegrowing, the grower should mimiic whatever outdoor daylenths are at time of the propsed transplant daylenth. For example, i Pregrow my plants for 45 days on 15 hrs. 15 hrs is the outdoor daylenghth on June 1 which is when i will transplant into the outdoors. If i were to transplant in early may when daylenth are 14.25 hrs,then the clonnes will begin to flower every time. Pregrown cannabis plants cant be transplanted unti loutdoor daylenth exceeds 14.5 hrs. If i tried to pregrow on 14.25 my plants would flowerr.

I would challlenge you to do an experiment. I would use fox farm soil and take 2 clones and plnat 1 in each container. Pregrow one of the plants for 90 days and for the second one, start it on 24 hrs for 1 week, and 15 hrs for 2 weeks and then plant both plants outdoors. The shock from such a serious enviromental change, ultraviolet light, wind, bugs will always result in the plant standing there for at least 30 days before it grows an inch while your 2nd plant is happy to be in the sun and is growing like hell.

Come October, i think you would find very little if any gain for the longer pregrow, but let us know how things turned out.

Its my view that 45 days is the optimum progrow and is the lenthgh of time needed to gain all the advantages of pregrowing with none of the hermi or a dozen other issues that come with attempts to progrow for too long.

These rules dont really apply to seed grown plants because they take 4-6 weeks to determin sexual maturity which usually allows enough time foe daylents to exceed 14.25hrs.


Im sure others have different opinions, but thats my 2 perrnies.

 

[Koondense]

Always great info form Moondawg, thanx for your 2 pennies

Could you just jump in your "Road to Guerrilla Success" thread and share some more precious info, there's a lot of interest around strain selection for guerrilla and other stuff?

Shopping time is coming, lol

 

[Team Microbe]

Team, i too considered getting a big jump on the season about 20 yrs ago and set out on a 4=6 yr research project aimed at determining daylight lengths and their effects on cannabis and its different stages of veg, flower, ets.

Where to start......

First, remember that hybrid cannabis, all varieties that i can find, trigger into flower at a daylength between 14.25 and 14. 5 hrs of light. At 14.75 hrs of light, cannabis plants will not attempt to flower. At 14.25, the plants will begin to flower. Inside or out, those are the daylenths that trigger flower onset in cannabis.

Here are some other laws about pregrowing and vegging.

The longer the plant is pregrown, the greater the negative influences it will experience and the longer it will take to flower. While a plant is in the veg stage, it produces auxins. Auxins have a number of funtions but onee of its influences is to slow or delay flowering. The longer the plant is in veg, the more the hormone builds and the greater its impact on flowering. Mother Nature didnt intend for cannabis to be pregrown and ther are some negative aspects when you tinker with her.

When proegrowing, the grower should mimiic whatever outdoor daylenths are at time of the propsed transplant daylenth. For example, i Pregrow my plants for 45 days on 15 hrs. 15 hrs is the outdoor daylenghth on June 1 which is when i will transplant into the outdoors. If i were to transplant in early may when daylenth are 14.25 hrs,then the clonnes will begin to flower every time. Pregrown cannabis plants cant be transplanted unti loutdoor daylenth exceeds 14.5 hrs. If i tried to pregrow on 14.25 my plants would flowerr.

I would challlenge you to do an experiment. I would use fox farm soil and take 2 clones and plnat 1 in each container. Pregrow one of the plants for 90 days and for the second one, start it on 24 hrs for 1 week, and 15 hrs for 2 weeks and then plant both plants outdoors. The shock from such a serious enviromental change, ultraviolet light, wind, bugs will always result in the plant standing there for at least 30 days before it grows an inch while your 2nd plant is happy to be in the sun and is growing like hell.

Come October, i think you would find very little if any gain for the longer pregrow, but let us know how things turned out.

Its my view that 45 days is the optimum progrow and is the lenthgh of time needed to gain all the advantages of pregrowing with none of the hermi or a dozen other issues that come with attempts to progrow for too long.

These rules dont really apply to seed grown plants because they take 4-6 weeks to determin sexual maturity which usually allows enough time foe daylents to exceed 14.25hrs.


Im sure others have different opinions, but thats my 2 perrnies.

Dude thank you so much, this post was more than helpful. I love guys that aren't too cocky to share some love and help out, what comes around goes around!

So youre basically saying start outdoor seeds/mothers out on 15 hrs (or your areas daylight length come transplant) to prevent pre-flowers right? Do you think that would work better than rooting a seed then immediately bringing it outside instead? Since it never had to adapt to outdoor conditions at such random?


btw respect for conducting that experiment, we wouldn't get anywhere without side-by-sides that's for sure lol

 

[Tiami]

cuttings from sexual mature mother plants will start flowering if planted too early without suplemental lights.

plants started from seeds and vegged for couple of months (2,3,4) will also start flowering when put outside. because they'll be sexually mature by then.

plants started from seed month or month and a half before your planting date shouldn't start flowering. as I can get it this is what you want. to have established plants before you can plant them outside.

So youre basically saying start outdoor seeds out on 15 hrs (or your areas daylight length come transplant) to prevent pre-flowers right?

this should work. I guess it's a good way for colder climates where planting dates (last frost) are late, mid or late may or something like that. you can have big plants by then but transport will be an issue if you're in guerilla.

more usual aproach especially if you want them planted before 1 June would be to start your seeds in mid march on 18/6 schedule and plant them around 20 April.

 

[Team Microbe]

cuttings from sexual mature mother plants will start flowering if planted too early without suplemental lights.

plants started from seeds and vegged for couple of months (2,3,4) will also start flowering when put outside. because they'll be sexually mature by then.

plants started from seed month or month and a half before your planting date shouldn't start flowering. as I can get it this is what you want. to have established plants before you can plant them outside.



this should work. I guess it's a good way for colder climates where planting dates (last frost) are late, mid or late may or something like that. you can have big plants by then but transport will be an issue if you're in guerilla.

more usual aproach especially if you want them planted before 1 June would be to start your seeds in mid march on 18/6 schedule and plant them around 20 April.

Thank you Tiami, what you bring up makes a lot of sense.

It looks like due to stealth requirements (obv) I'll pop seeds, root them in beer cups, then transport them outside after the first topping. I'm gonna try to harden them off the best I can without stressing them out too much being youngians and all.

My season starts around June 1st, since our last frost lands somewhere mid-May. I'll pop seeds May 1st



Thanks again for the help, last year was my first outdoor grow and I actually got them outside late (beginning of August!) so I suppose it ended up working out for me. It was done the wrong way though, I vegged plants for 2 months prior and they were big carrying out into the swamp. Bad idea, had to make many trips and laying them down in totes hurt a few branches... live n learn though right?

 

[Tiami]

sounds lika good plan.

..after the first topping. I'm gonna try to harden them off the best I can without stressing them out too much being youngians and all.

imho topping too early is the most stresfull thing you can do for seedlings. for outside plants you don't gain anything, only stout the plant for a week or so. with such a short season I wouldn't top more than once, or even never depending on strain, branchines/vigour and if mold is an issue. plant knows what's the best way for her to grow. you'll gain much more to prune early the inside growth, strechy shoots, popcorn that doesn't get much light.

early topping is height restiction technique (indoors or balcony grows). you need much longer vegetative period and a plant capable of branching if you're topping for yield. clones should already be rooting by now. in your case every time you top you stout plant's growth and you loose new bud sites which meens you loose yield.

 

[Team Microbe]

sounds lika good plan.

imho topping too early is the most stresfull thing you can do for seedlings. for outside plants you don't gain anything, only stout the plant for a week or so. with such a short season I wouldn't top more than once, or even never depending on strain, branchines/vigour and if mold is an issue. plant knows what's the best way for her to grow. you'll gain much more to prune early the inside growth, strechy shoots, popcorn that doesn't get much light.

early topping is height restiction technique (indoors or balcony grows). you need much longer vegetative period and a plant capable of branching if you're topping for yield. clones should already be rooting by now. in your case every time you top you stout plant's growth and you loose new bud sites which meens you loose yield.

Yeah I hear ya, I never top before the 5th node for the same reasons. I gotta disagree with you though on the pruning... it doubles yield and when done right can actually cut down on mold issues... I like to shave the legs and main-line creating 16 even colas. No popcorn, no hastle. Easy trimming and bigger yields from the same set up! Google NugBuckets Main-lining tutorial for more info... it's a game changer man!

Topping CREATES more budsites, it doesn't lose them! Idk if you know how it works but if you top one branch, it'll produce 2 branches instead of one. That means 2 buds instead of 1 bud. I get 6-7 ounces per plant compared to 2-3 left un-touched.. and that's indoors. Outdoors it'll produce 2 pound plants easy. I swear by this stuff man, trust me!

 

[The_Core]

I am going to start my seeds in greenhouse seed trays on my patio with a plant fleece over mine. No T-5.

Most of mine will be AutoFlower so I imagine it wont matter much.

 

[Team Microbe]

I am going to start my seeds in greenhouse seed trays on my patio with a plant fleece over mine. No T-5.

Most of mine will be AutoFlower so I imagine it wont matter much.

Nice man, I wish I could start mine outside... maybe I'll rig something up lol

 

[Tiami]

hi TM, The_Core

Main Lining sounds nice looks similar like creating the bush prunning but too much cutting doesn't let plants grow really. we don't have time for that. I don't think topping doubles the yield. plant only redisturbes it's energy and when done wisely you might benefit in some yield and quality. it's different indoors and out, plant doesn't have any grow restrictons and sunlight shines on whole plant almost equaly. only thing plants need is good soil and plenty of water and sun. and you need good fertile plants of course. that's all imho of course.

 

[Tiami]

I am going to start my seeds in greenhouse seed trays on my patio with a plant fleece over mine. No T-5.

Most of mine will be AutoFlower so I imagine it wont matter much.

I'll start my first round of popping in a month or so when it gets a bit warmer and days longer. kinda like greenhouse I guess, balcony. we don't have frost here, but have plenty of other shit. wish you luck up north, it's excotical place to grow ganja.

 

[Team Microbe]

hi TM, The_Core

Main Lining sounds nice looks similar like creating the bush prunning but too much cutting doesn't let plants grow really. we don't have time for that. I don't think topping doubles the yield. plant only redisturbes it's energy and when done wisely you might benefit in some yield and quality. it's different indoors and out, plant doesn't have any grow restrictons and sunlight shines on whole plant almost equaly. only thing plants need is good soil and plenty of water and sun. and you need good fertile plants of course. that's all imho of course.

I hear ya Tiami, to each their own of course but hear me out for a sec here...

Light penetration is very important and depicts potential pretty much in a plant (besides the other obvious factors of course, but it plays a huge role). If the plant is in the classic christmas tree shape, only so much light can be caught by the leaves being it standing up straight.

Now if that plant was topped several times and all that growth distributed to it horizontally... there would be more surface area for light to hit; making a more efficient growing shape. I think of it like solar panels kinda.



I'm curious though... what makes you believe that yield is the same whether you top or not?

 

[The_Core]

I'll start my first round of popping in a month or so when it gets a bit warmer and days longer. kinda like greenhouse I guess, balcony. we don't have frost here, but have plenty of other shit. wish you luck up north, it's excotical place to grow ganja.

Greenhouse trays are great.

I am going to use my patio because I am starting over 100 seeds. My T-5 cant cover all of the plants.

The plant fleece is great because you cant see what someone is growing, but it lets sunlight, air, and water through. Durable enough for one season, then i can replace it if i need to.

Up north growing a whole different can of worms as they say. I wish I lived farther south, I have some expensive strains sitting in the fridge because I cant grow inside and this far north none would make it to harvest without turning to complete mold.

 

[Tiami]

I hear ya Tiami, to each their own of course but hear me out for a sec here...

Light penetration is very important and depicts potential pretty much in a plant (besides the other obvious factors of course, but it plays a huge role). If the plant is in the classic christmas tree shape, only so much light can be caught by the leaves being it standing up straight.

Now if that plant was topped several times and all that growth distributed to it horizontally... there would be more surface area for light to hit; making a more efficient growing shape. I think of it like solar panels kinda.



I'm curious though... what makes you believe that yield is the same whether you top or not?

just like growth at first yield is a product of photosynthetis and water/nutrients. simply put. when topping you get two smaller shoots instead of one larger. you're only redisturbing plants energy which depends on sun/water/nutrients factors. this is basic stuff for all plants. topping for yield might work when plants have prolonged vegetative period. plant is tricked and produces more shoots, leafs really and roots. in before flowering stretch in june when plants go crazy and grow unproportionally you might get some more bud sites. but I've seen plants bursting in growth after topping and those who clearly didn't like it.

with short vegetative period you can't do that trick because every time you top, a plant needs time to adopt and redisturb hormones. plenty of topping means less growth in time when plant is in shock. it also means lots of developed shoots/leafs which would be producing energy are removed while there's no time for plant to compensate that growth like those plants which had long veg. also my experience is that big plants react much faster to topping than seedlings. when I see potential I will top the plant many times, cutting off all tops on higher branches, even 6'' of top growth. but I do that when plant is at least 3' tall. this craetes a bush or ball shape quite similar to what you describe. still imo a plant which is 6'x6' and a plant which is 9'x4' will produce similar yield.

 

[Team Microbe]

topping for yield might work when plants have prolonged vegetative period. plant is tricked and produces more shoots, leafs really and roots. in before flowering stretch in june when plants go crazy and grow unproportionally you might get some more bud sites.

I'm sorry man, I didn't understand this part though ^


But when you remove popcorn sites (lower nuggets) this gives more weight to your colas, it's re-distributed just like topping is... so youre not losing any yield you're just choosing bigger nuggets over a wide variety of sized nuggets. That's why I main-line, the theory here is that every cola is exactly the same distance from the roots, thus making drying more efficient (due to not having all different sizes of flowers to dry at dif. densities) and more attractive bag appeal. It literally increases yield too - check it:

# of colas yield

8 - 5.3 oz

16 - 7.4 oz

32 - 6.7 oz


These were all cuttings from the same mom so there was a control to the experiment. All I did was initiate flowering at different times to see where the sweet spot was... and you guessed it! 16 it is.