Is it Me, or Is It My Bucket? (xPost)

[SuperBonBon]

Jesus Crispies, what would I do without you guys?

If I tell you that I'm in the process of getting meters, would that make it more likely that someone will actually look at the problems I'm having and try to apply their past experience to recognizing and diagnosing that problem?

I want someone to look at the fucking pictures I'm posting, say "Ahh! I've seen that before!" and put their two cents in. I don't need people trying to tell me how that my methods are wrong or that I don't have the right equipment or that what I'm doing isn't what I think I'm doing. There hasn't even been a "Well, I would do XXX in this situation" aside from saying "Gee shucks, I'd go buy meters."

I posted plenty of information for someone with experience to help me with this. I described my system, provided plenty of progressive pictures and have done the best that I can to answer your questions with the equipment that I have. If all your information is based on numbers you've read off someone elses posts and you lack the critical thinking capacity to assist, I can really do without your help.

Latest pictures, taken a few minutes ago:





All show what looks like necrotic spotting on the leaves, along with a general droop. The inner part of the new leaves are coming out very lime green. Roots don't seem to be developing the way they should be, but don't look unhealthy. I can't smell any root rot yet, if there is any.





Anyone know if HurtBack is still active somewhere out there on the itraweb?

Thanks,

SuperBonBon

 

[cremater]

Hey Super !

Looking at your pics and what you are describing its difficult to tell whats going on but here is a thought.

If you are using R/O or distilled water (and i am not sure if you are) you may want to hit your system with cal/mag. This generally is a required supplement if you are using pure waters because those metals and salts have been removed from the water. I "know" that calmag can definately help with the leaf drooping thing as it has in previous grows for me.

It doenst matter if you are doing the grows realatively blind or not. If you know you are ginving them enough nutes to make them grow and not enough to kill them then you are fine. Temperature plays a part, but if you dont have root rot, you are fine. Ph is important becuase it will lock out nutes if its too high or too low and water even from the same source as pevious grows can vary in Ph from one fill to the next. But you have that handled now from what I read.

I would suggest as well that you do a complete system flush, hit the system with H2O2 to kill everything in the system and remix your solution fresh adding a little Hydroguard to the mix. This way the system, regardless of whats going on right now or what is causing it, will start from a fixed clean base again.

I am a believer as you are that, sometimes we growers WAY over think things. Since it is impossible for anyone including you to know exactly whats going on in your system because there are no numbers to work with we have the curse of needing to start over completely fresh every time we have or suspect a problem.

I hope that any of this you will find useful and wish you success with your grow.

If your system works for you and you get the results you need/want out of it I say screw all the people that are telling you your doing it wrong or they wouldnt do it that way or whatever......it works for you, enough said!


Peace and Green

Crem

 

[Guest]

I posted plenty of information for someone with experience to help me with this.

You have not posted the pH of your nute solution, which is vital. Therefore, no one can really help you. You can't diagnose the problem until you get a pH meter and tell everyone what your actual pH is when you feed them!!! Do you not understand the importance of pH levels?

 

[Sauce]

Exactly!!!

If someone tells you that it's a certain deficiency and you add a bunch of nutes to trying to fix it and your ph is off, it's only going to worsen the problem. You may not understand this concept yet, but ph affects the availability of nutes. If your ph is too far off, certain nutes will be unavailable and absorbed at a fraction of what they should be.

Here's a chart since you are clearly too lazy to do the looking for yourself:

What do I think the problem is? Probably a ph problem. So when you provide us with no accurate ph readings, what the fuck are we supposed to do? All the while you bitch about how we can't help you because you've provided us with too little info. Sure you talked a lot about your setup, but ph is extremely important. 1st figure out your ph (ppm would help a lot too) and then diagnose the problem, not the other way around.

Now go get yourself a ph meter or some drops and stop bitching about how we can't help you because you've failed to help yourself...

And buy a fucking ppm meter in the future, otherwise this shit is probably going to happen again.

 

[rule35sub1]

I can see you are getting lockout or a deficiancy. I ran into the same problem in my DWC years ago. This is what I did, I purchased nutes that were ph buffered, and kept my res temp as close to 68 at all times, this fixed my problem.

This is a link to an actual bio-tub.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=33578

I use Sensi One, it is ph buffered and works like a charm.

Hope this helps.

 

[SuperBonBon]

It's amazing how patronizing and small headed some of you people can be.

You act like I've never done this before and that I haven't spent more time on these boards than your average geek spends on World of Warcraft. I may be a little out of practice, but I've got more useful information stored in my head than the majority of posts I've been getting.

My inspiration for this system was HurtBack, way before I ever even heard of this BigToke guy. Years ago. The entire point is low maintenance and applying a few basic principals to encourage a healthy environment for plant growth. "Throw away the meters" I believe he once wrote.

Growing weed doesn't have to be an exact science. I told you my pH was between 5.9-6.2. Just because I can't get you 100% accuracy doesn't mean you can't help with the problem. You just can't help with the problem because you're not able to. Don't bother posting.

I'm doing a water change out tonight. I'm going to drain out the DynaGrow nutrients (mix of grow and bloom) and replace them with some FoxFarm Grow Big at 1.5 tsp per gallon. I'm going to use half distilled and half tap water. I'm going to rinse the system out but I'm going to leave the bio-cultured rocks as they are. We'll see how they're doing in the morning.

 

[rule35sub1]

Is the venturi on your powerhead running?
Mine gets water in it sometimes and stops working, could be the reason for low oxygen.

 

[Ganja_Dragon]

well, yes, it does mean we can't help you with your problem, BonBon, because if you can't tell us exactly what's going on, we can't tell you EXACTLY what to do.

Once again, you're telling us your general pH, which is still high for a hydro grow. Your plants are telling me they've got a clusterfuck of deficiencies, most likely multiple lockouts due to your high pH.

What this all means is, your plants are not getting the nutrients they need, and you're taking a shot in a dim room rather than a dark one as to what's wrong.

The people that have told you to get yourself a couple of meters, including myself, are not saying that to be assholes, we are trying to help you, like you wanted. You asked for advice so we're giving it to you. If you don't like the advice, you don't have to take it, but don't be snide about it. We could just as easily ignore you and your thread and spend our time helping someone that would appreciate it.

Buying those meters is what all of these people would do if they did not have one because that is how they can easily and quickly diagnose a problem by process of elimination. "My plants are not doing well, what's the problem? pH is 8.0??? No, that's not right, let me drop it back to 5.5 where it's supposed to be."

"My plants aren't doing well, what's wrong? pH is 5.5, normal, and temperatures are great, 68 degrees, and HOLY HELL 1200PPM??? What the hell happened?! Time to dilute!"

Giving vague information will get you vague help. If you got shot in the leg, you wouldn't call your local Emergency Medical Service and tell them "Hey, I just got hurt, and it looks pretty bad... uh... there's some blood... I'm somewhere in Los Angeles..." You tell them "I just got shot in the leg, send an ambulance to 36th and Vine!"

It's the same idea here, dude. You're telling us your plants are "eh", and you're kinda-sorta giving us an idea of what's going on, so we're telling you what you need to do first. If your friend randomly keels over, you would wouldn't guess he kinda died and immediately resort to a defibrillator, would you?

If you answered yes, then you shouldn't be growing plants. If you answered "No I'd check for a pulse, first," then there's still hope, but you'd have to know where to check and how to do it.

To sum things up: if you can't accurately diagnose the source of your problem, you won't find a solution to it... unless you happen to stumble upon it through sheer luck. Sorry, but that's just the way life is, like it or not.

 

[Guest]

You act like I've never done this before

Obviously not, if your letting your plants die because you won't get the proper tools to grow. There is no magical cure for your plants. unless you get a pH meter, you will not be able to fix shit. wtf is soo hard to understand about that? and you have the balls to call me small headed?! Are you serious!?

 

[ItsGrowTime]

Hate to pile on but Im thrown off by how someone comes to ask for help then dumps on people when they ask for exact numbers and details about the grow in order to effectively diagnose the problem. This forum is very specific and hydro is very specific, since hydro is all about details. If you can't be specific dont bother asking for help in this forum. Go to Infirmary and wait for some epsom salt and stump remover suggestions.

 

[SuperBonBon]

Here's the situation:

A: I don't have a pH meter.
B: I can't justify more than $20 to blow on a meter right now.
C: There are no meters available locally for less than $65
D: It's fucking Christmas and you can't get anything shipped quickly.
E: I can get more clones easier than I can get a pH meter.
F: I can do this without a meter. I've done it before.

If it makes you guys feel any warmer and fuzzier, I'll tell you that I agree it's most likely a high pH problem. I think it's due to the fact that my Dynagrow nutrients don't bring down the pH as much as the Big Grow does. Hopefully this switchout of the resevoir will fix things.

My problem with is with the attitude of people. Don't tell me to go buy meters, tell me it looks like a high pH problem, but it would be easier to diagnose with more accurate equipment. If you want to jump on your high horse, that's fine, but don't expect me to smile up at you and ask if we can go a little further.

To those who've added their sincere input, I appreciate it. To the others, eh, no hard feelings.

SuperBonBon

 

[Guest]

It's amazing how patronizing and small headed some of you people can be.

I believe they were trying to help you...

 

[Blunt_69]

What ever man... I wasnt even going to repost in this thread because you are obviously thick headed and a know it all. I cant help people who dont want to help themselves by Listening. Check my sig for further instruction on how to do things RIGHT.

Ive ran without meters before to however I had them incase anything did go sideways so i could figger the shit out.Not blame people who try to help ya.Help yourself smart ass.

superiority complex towards growing

I was once very new to hydro myself. The difference I listen to what people have to say. My success is directly attributed to ICMAG's unbelivable amounts of information provided by the members to whom i will always look up to.THANKS ICMAG!!

I asked you to either take the positives out of my post or ignore them, not get offended over it.

 

[Guest]

Leave it to a newbster to get his feathers ruffled and his panties in a wad cuz he wont spend the $ to make sure his efforts in growing are guaranteed result oriented,then ask for help and not like what he hears?.........Spend the cash,do the research,and by all means,DON`T bite the hand that feeds you............The last 2 people that posted in your thread are by FAR some of the most knowledgeable folks on this site and you DIS em?................Good luck in your efforts to be ignorant and ......................PEACE.............DHF...................

 

[MynameStitch]

That ios a type in my guide, its supossed to be 75 not 80!
I agree with everyone in here about water temps, what I want to know is how much nutrients are in your system now? your plants look hungry....... and where were these clones taken from? outside? Or from a plant that was outdoors?

are you using tap water? RO water? Bottled? distilled?

Your ph needs to be 5,5 to 6.3 for one, 6.4 locks certain nutrients out what nutrients are you using? and what PPM is your setup now

 

[SuperBonBon]

To all the people who feel like my attitude is inappropriate, quit your idol worship and try rereading the thread. I was basically told that I can't grow shit, my intelligence was insulted and my system doesn't work. But I'm all done with that now.

Stich:

Temperatures have not been above 75 except for a few days when it got hot. Even then they were well below 80.

Nutrients are Fox Farm Grow Big for Hydroponics, mixed in at a little more than half strength as per bottle instructions for recirculating system. Prior to this was a little less than half strength Dynagrow (1/2 Veg, 1/2 Flower).

Clones came from indoor plants (Purportedly : Skunk, Afghani, Hash Plant). They were rooted in an aerocloner.

Water is tap water that has been stood. When I recently changed out, I used half distilled water (2.5gallon) and half tap (2.5 gallon).

pH is within the correct range. As has been so well pointed out, I can't tell you exactly, but unless I'm colorblind or my solution drops are way off, they're between 5.5 and 6. PPM between 200-300.

Thanks for your help.

SuperBonBon

 

[Sauce]

Ph sounds good. Is your ppm number from an actual meter or are you just guessing? If you are just guessing on ppm this gets us nowhere. If you actually have a meter, what's the conversion? Is the ppm rising or falling? By how much and in what amount of time?

Personally I think you have a K and/or Ca lockout but considering you didn't know your ph it could be a wide variety of problems. Make sure your ph is corrected before trying to fix any problem.

Also what ppm does your tap what come out at? If you have no meter then you won't be able to know this.

 

[budrezin]

exuse me but ,have you changed all the nutrient 3 days ago when it first happen, if so are they dead or getting better, can we see another picture, did you say at the start that you might have spilt something poisioness to plants in the rez.

 

[SuperBonBon]

Thanks for the continued offerings of help. I do appreciate them.

PPM is being read from a color strip. It's as good as I can do right now. It's between the shades of 200-400, closer to 200. No idea if it's rising or falling.

pH does seem to be holding steady in the right range.

PPM of the tap water is between 0-100, closer to 0. pH of tap water is pretty high. Looks over 8.

At the beginning of the grow, I cracked the lid of the container. Doing so flaked off some of the Killz Spray Primer I used to cover it and it got into the resevoir. When I did the change out, I rinsed the container and the lava stones thoroughly to try to get any of it out. There was also a small amount of sawdust that might have made it's way in, but it was from a piece of hardwood, not MDF, so there shouldn't have been any noxious chemicals in it.

Since the changeout, they don't seem to be reacting as fast as I'd hoped. Growth is still stunted and the larger ones are still pretty lanky. Roots on the worse ones seem to finally have started to take off a little more. I'm definitely noticing more of the lateral root hairs starting to come off the larger plants.

Here's the latest pictures:



This is the plant I'm kind of using as my indicator. I'm seeing a little more green towards the base of these leaves, so I'm hoping it's a good sign. Still very pale though.





The stunted ones.





Stuned ones roots.





The larger ones.





Their roots.

How is the timeframe for improvement? Anyone know how long I could expect to wait to see positive results from fixing whatever problem I've got?

Thanks to all,

SuperBonBon

 

[SuperBonBon]

Since right now I'm agreeing with a deficiency problem, I added an additional 4 tsp of Grow Big to the water.

Fingers Crossed.