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Is Finola really day-neutral?

Bzh guerilla

Bzh guerilla

Active member
not true autoflowering f1 hybrid crosses based on lowrider and photoperiode but semi-autoflowering like some landrace (Moroccan, or with a mighty mite origin) with true autoflowering.
it was selected to flower under 18 hours of light or perhaps less, but the genetic basis is totally different. They flower from 2 and a half months or mid-July or 5 to 7 knots per month (47° north).
This is why a backcross with a full auto is not the solution that I will follow even if I had considered it too.

In my opinion :
semi-autoflowering + autoflowering

selection of semi-autoflowering (triggering of flowering from 18 hours of light).

in f3 selection of full autoflowering (lowrider type).
 
K

kendermag

Active member
Bzh guerilla said:
not true autoflowering f1 hybrid crosses based on lowrider and photoperiode but semi-autoflowering like some landrace (Moroccan, or with a mighty mite origin) with true autoflowering.
it was selected to flower under 18 hours of light or perhaps less, but the genetic basis is totally different. They flower from 2 and a half months or mid-July or 5 to 7 knots per month (47° north).
This is why a backcross with a full auto is not the solution that I will follow even if I had considered it too.

In my opinion :
semi-autoflowering + autoflowering

selection of semi-autoflowering (triggering of flowering from 18 hours of light).

in f3 selection of full autoflowering (lowrider type).
Click to expand...
It is probably a difficult task to stabilize a semi-autoflowering trait, since it seems to be a quantitative trait.

Unlike the autoflower, early or late genes, which are more manageable, many other genes seem to be involved that also influence the critical photoperiod.
 
K

kendermag

Active member
On Sunday I planted 30 Bx1 seeds and 1 CBD 20:1. A while ago I just transplanted them into small pots (0.5 L) and the CBD 20:1 into a 1.5 L pot.

The idea is to see if 50% are really autoflowering, and in the process make some Bx2 seeds for the next test, by pollinating the CBD 20:1 plant with the selected Bx1 male.
I will also pollinate the Bx1 females and keep seeds from the plants that look best.

1726264169469.jpg


The schedule may be something like this:

1726266966113.png
 
K

kendermag

Active member
A plant with 3 leaves has appeared, another one also appeared in the F1.
I'll discard it later.

Today I will set them to 24h, until now they have been at 18h.

Growth with this 75w light is slow, but soon they will begin to run out of space.

If everything goes as I hope, once the non-autoflowering ones have been discarded (50% of them) and a single male has been selected, there will be about 8 females and one male left.

At the moment Fast Bud Auto 20:1 is the smallest of the plants (large pot).

1726851142137.jpg
 
K

kendermag

Active member
In this Bx1 generation supposedly 50% real autoflowering plants should appear.

To be able to clearly identify them, they will have a 24-hour light photoperiod from now on.

Under 18 hours of light I have seen that both the original Finola females and those of the F1 cross (with autoflowering) begin flowering, although it is not a forceful flowering, but rather they release some flowers while they continue growing.

1726852326075.jpeg


Finola and F1 males, on the other hand, do flower normally under 18 hours of light, but I think it is a common behavior in Cannabis, perhaps a sex-linked gene that increases the critical photoperiod compared to females.

At the moment my hypothesis is that the semi-autoflowering trait of the Finola variety, and probably with some landraces that show this behavior, is not related to the Autoflower1 gene of common autoflowering varieties nor with the fast version ones.

Proof of this is that no real autoflowering strains have appeared in the F1 generation (auto x “semi-auto”).

In my opinion, what best fits is to think that the critical photoperiod is governed by a broad set of genes (polygenic trait) that allows continuous variation of critical photoperiod from 12h to 18h or probably more (>20h?).

The fact that the F1 inherited this semi-auto trait could be due to the semi-auto trait being dominant, or to the influence of the autoflower1 gene, since these F1s are also fast-version... how fucking crazy... they would be semi-auto and fast-version.

I know that what triggers flowering is the hours of darkness, but I prefer to talk about hours of light because it is clearer for me, please forgive this inaccuracy.
 
K

kendermag

Active member
Day 19, some males are starting to sex. I have placed those that I believe are males, on the right, so that they cast as little shadow as possible to the rest.

1727444378986.jpg


Fast Bud CBD 20:1 is the least vigorous... and like the other 2 plants used in previous generations, it has some defect with the leaves that causes them to bend and twist.

1727444378978.jpg


This has spread in some plants from its Bx1 offspring.

From now on I will probably not use the Bx2, and start inbreeding the Bx1 ones, only autos, vigorous and not showing this shit... this is a hobby and I don't want my eyes to bleed when I see them.
 
K

kendermag

Active member
Get Glass Distribution said:
Hi bro! thanks for sharing, Yes, Finola is day-neutral meaning that it flowers according to its age rather than the light cycle. I think many growers find it very reliable, particularly in areas with unpredictable light.
Click to expand...
Hi bro!!

It's considered day-neutral, but I don't think is the same as common autoflowering, where flowering start/duration is more predictable.

The official Finola documentation indicates harvest times of 130, 100 and 70 days for latitudes of 60º, 50º and 40º respectively.

This enormous difference does not exist in common autoflowering strains, which is why I think they really have a very high critical photoperiod, maybe close to 24 hours, but they are not totally insensitive to the photoperiod.

Thanks for sharing opinions!!
 
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K

kendermag

Active member
Farmer John said:
Not my plants, a field near the coast in southern Finland 😎 theres a large number of fields here, I can go and document them next season with data&info. 👌🏻
Click to expand...
Ok so near 60ºN.

According to official documentation, it is recommended in latitudes of 60º to plant them in mid-May, and they begin to flower 25-30 days later (mid-June)

I just verified that in mid-June in those latitudes there are around 18 hours of daylight.

The harvest should be 130 days after sowing, that is in mid-end september.
 
Farmer John

Farmer John

Old and in the way.
Veteran
kendermag said:
Ok so near 60ºN.

According to official documentation, it is recommended in latitudes of 60º to plant them in mid-May, and they begin to flower 25-30 days later (mid-June)

I just verified that in mid-June in those latitudes there are around 18 hours of daylight.

The harvest should be 130 days after sowing, that is in mid-end september.
Click to expand...
Thats about right, pics were taken 10th of august
👍🏻
 
K

kendermag

Active member
Day 26, this week I have removed 5 plants with deformed leaves, and 3 males that were too fast and were about to start releasing pollen, and of a finola phenotype.

There are still 5 other males developing sacs. In total I have seen 8 males flowering, which could fit with 50% autoflowering plants (15 estimated males out of 30 plants, and 8 of them supposedly autoflowering). Some females are already started sexing.

1728083915710.jpg


In a couple of days I will discard the rest of the males to keep one. When the females start to develop flowers, I will only stick to the ones that seem autoflowering, choosing 3 or 4 of these.
 
K

kendermag

Active member
Day 33, throughout the week I have removed 8 females and 7 males, for being tall, having little branching and being too fast.

There remains a male of medium height that is already beginning to release pollen, and another one, very compact. I have doubts about using the latter, because it seems more consistent in flowering time with the females in the group.

Fast bud auto cbd 20:1 seems to have a somewhat different phenotype than that used in previous generations, and has not yet been sexed, and the leaf and structure also seems somewhat different.
There is another female (or so I think) compact that has not yet been sexed.

It seems that sexing takes a little longer at 24 hours than at 18 hours (previous 2 cultures).

I am surprised (in a bad way) that the Finola genetics are very dominant in terms of structure, leaf shape and flowering speed.

The smell, on the other hand (at least in the males) is not dominant, since the fruitiness of the 20:1 predominates.

1728683520169.jpg
 
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K

kendermag

Active member
Day 40, on Saturday I discarded the large male and kept the small one, which is already releasing pollen like a bad beast.

There are 6 females left (5bx1 + 1 auto cbd 20:1) that have barely started flowering.
I pruned them to stop vertical growth.
These are going slower than I expected, probably because of the 24-hour photoperiod.

There is pollen everywhere:

1729265470046.jpg
 
K

kendermag

Active member
Day 47, after taking the photo, I removed the male.
I don't want to make the same mistake as the previous round and have so many immature seeds.
A few are enough for me.

1729878764442.jpg


Fortunately the stretching seems to have stopped. I had to fold some.

I don't know if it's the photoperiod or genetics, but they seem to be at least a week behind the previous crops.
 
K

kendermag

Active member
Creeperpark said:
Looks like they are taking very nicely. I like my seed dark and mature so I always give them more time than they need. When the calyx shrivels and the seed rattles it's just like Mother Nature.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice! This time I'm in less of a hurry than last time in the summer. I'm going on vacation at mid December... so I think they will have plenty of time.
 
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