Inflorescence Anatomy: bract vs. calyx

[spurr]

pics 1 and 2 your 'bract' is actually a stipule

Good point on the stipule ... I should have remembered that, thanks. However, I think for cannabis they might be more accurately termed "interpetiolar stipules". That is because they are attached more to the stem, than directly to the petiole base.

#3 that is a palmately compound leaf with leaflets not stipules

Yup. Stipules are at bases of petioles, I cannot believe I also forgot that when I made those pics, god damn weed did it!!!

Thanks a lot for pointing out those errors. I will correct those pics soon.

Reference:

STIPULES AND STIPELS
http://www.botgard.ucla.edu/html/bo...features/generalstructure/stipules/index.html

 

[trichrider]

thanx again Spurr, with help from MM
informative as always.
great work .

 

[Sheriff Bart]

many many hours studying various plant anatomy for flowering plant diversity course has paid off!


also, on the topic, when you look at the next closest relative that we know of to Cannabis sp., Humulus sp., we can see certain similarities which might help us to understand the structure of the cannabis 'bud' better

i sort of get the feelin that if you got a nice microscope and a dissecting scope and went at it, you may actually find that the petals/sepals have disappeared nearly completely and what is commonly referred to as the 'clayx' is really just a modified bract that has taken the place of a calyx. hops cones are very similar, in that they are simply composed of many bracts with the ovules located between the bracts, there are no petals/sepals/tepals (when petals are indistinguishable from sepal)

and the way i learned it, is that a bract is a leaf associated with a floral structure, that doesnt resemble the true leaves, but then again a flower is also just a highly highly modified leaf structure....

and the calyx is the whole group of sepals (petals compose the corolla) which may or may not be fused into like a floral tube or something else


edit 2
just read most of the thread, i agree with mel franks assesment on the matter, and spurr that first paper listed under [5] says "Developing pistillate bracts of Cannabis sativa L" in the title, have not read it but this also leads me to believe my above proposition is valid, pistillate bracts....bracts that have pistils

 

[spurr]

Bract is the incorrect term, calyx is correct. Bracts are modified leafs, what I put in the last pic. I do have a nice brightfield microscope, it's not a dissecting scope, it's better and would work fine for looking at calyx. What you wrote below is correct, that's how I labeled the last pic I posted:

... bract is a leaf associated with a floral structure, that doesnt resemble the true leaves ...

I would strongly suggest not believing anything Mel Frank wrote, well, maybe you can believe him that cannabis get you stoned . Anyway, nice chatting with you, thanks for pointing out my errors, re stipules (I'll correct those pics soon).

 

[Sheriff Bart]

well i guess well have to agree to disagree but imo cannabis doesnt have a visible to the eye calyx but its simply composed of a number of divserse bracts and I believe that Mel Frank is quite correct but thats fine

but, as you can see, he has a microscope, and from what i read in that article, he knows a lot more about what hes lookin for that you spurr, sorry

like i said, look at related plants, go deeper, that 'calyx' is not a collection of sepals, sepals petals and tepals are nearly nonexistant in cannabis/humulus, its a highly modified bract...follow the development of the flower, look at cell structures

 

[dizzlekush]

Oh Boy! Semantics!

as long as this will help us grow better weed... o wait...

im down with the plant physiology lesson but theres no need to whip out a ruler and start measuring inches here.

 

[Sheriff Bart]

i understand not everyone here is a plant biologist or really into botany and plant systematics or even has any idea what that means but as i am myself in involved in all of the above, the understanding of plants physical characteristics can be very important in classifying plants, even though it may seem tivial to others, its not. its important to understand how diff but similar structure are developed, like if you look at plant families that climb with tendrils, grape (Vitaceae) , cucurbits (cucurbitaceae) and others like passifloraceae they all have tendrils but the tendrils on each family arise in distinct locations, and from diff tissues, and so you can differentiate the families based on the minor differences in tendrils if you cant find other useful traits on the plants (maybe no fruits, flowers, other identifying traits). and take a look at cactacea and euphorbiacea plants, each family has produced plants with spines, but the spines in each family arise from distinct tissues, so if you know this, and know how to look at the spines and understand their development, you can distinguish these two families from each other with that characteristic.

and afterall, this is the science and botany thread, and here i am, speakin some real science and botany
but w/e if its only about the weed to you then stay in a growers forum, im just tellin you what i know about the matter and imo theres been more than enough evidence given and mel frank covered the topic quite well in that article with REAL BOTANY, i dont know what people have against him, but then again when people are right after so many people we wrong for so long some people just have a hard time admitting it :shrugs:

 

[Bonzoi]

So what's the floral formula or diagram?

So what's the floral formula or diagram?

Hi everyone

I've been trying to figure this out a while now, but I just can't seem to find anywhere that confirms it for me. Im a horticulturalist studying in South Africa and unfortunately cannabis is illegal so I struggle to find out much myself.

I am wanting to get a tattoo of either the floral diagram or floral formula of the female plant, the one we smoke. I don't think I want to specificfy whether it's sativa, indica or hemp, but ideally the general formula for the cannabis family. A more species specific diagram or formula could also do.

So I was wondering if between us all, or just from one of you, could you please show me a floral formula or floral diagram which I could use, it would really be appreciated.

Thanks guys
Regards stu

 

[Microbeman]

I know an old thread but for the record Mel and the sheriff were very wrong on bracts. I think my microscopes outshine Mel's.