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Indoor, soil based activities.
- Thread starter LndRcLvr
- Start date
Ca++
Well-known member
Jacks Magic is good. It's like peat, that's had just enough added, to make it complete. It's a Which best buy. I have used it indoors, and it copes, until you really turn up the wick. I ran it last year, feeding full strength plagron/canna but had to use calmag also. There is no cal or mag in those near identical soil feeds. That is not unusual of soil feeds, but LED has changed the landscape, and it seems these traditional soil feeds are not keeping up.
A mL per L of most calmag's will give you about 40ppm Ca, with 15ppm Mg, and maybe 30ppm of N as a side order. Considering you may want 100 60 180 respectively, this is not a great addition. It is actually in the water though. It's very much available, and will meet the needs of rapid growth. While the soil can still offer up what it can, I see no problem putting less reliance upon it. Right to the final weeks, where the plants getting bad at Ca uptake, so the (somewhat peresrved) Ca in the soil will be enough. So I stopped the Calmag, with it's then less desireable N addition. Though kept up the full feed dose.
I think you spoke of 500w over 1.5sqm? Which isn't extremely bright. The above is simply what I did. There are multipurpose feeds like floranova, that do include cal and mag, as they must work in soil, but also coco/hydro. The floranova comes in around 100ppm of Ca at higher doses. You might find it useful as a one bottle feed, used at half strength. I think you will need something, no matter how big the pots. It's benificial to get things in the water, where the plant can get them.
I bet you have something you used outdoors, that needs looking over, as you plan ahead a few weeks
A mL per L of most calmag's will give you about 40ppm Ca, with 15ppm Mg, and maybe 30ppm of N as a side order. Considering you may want 100 60 180 respectively, this is not a great addition. It is actually in the water though. It's very much available, and will meet the needs of rapid growth. While the soil can still offer up what it can, I see no problem putting less reliance upon it. Right to the final weeks, where the plants getting bad at Ca uptake, so the (somewhat peresrved) Ca in the soil will be enough. So I stopped the Calmag, with it's then less desireable N addition. Though kept up the full feed dose.
I think you spoke of 500w over 1.5sqm? Which isn't extremely bright. The above is simply what I did. There are multipurpose feeds like floranova, that do include cal and mag, as they must work in soil, but also coco/hydro. The floranova comes in around 100ppm of Ca at higher doses. You might find it useful as a one bottle feed, used at half strength. I think you will need something, no matter how big the pots. It's benificial to get things in the water, where the plant can get them.
I bet you have something you used outdoors, that needs looking over, as you plan ahead a few weeks
@Ca++ Previously outdoors I whacked in a handful of some fish blood and bone, which I have also added to my current mix ( a non scientific 3 tablespoons for reason unbeknownst even to me). My yield on out door autos was only 20g per plant tho'
I have purchased formulex all purpose solution 5lt and silicon solution which I plan to use in addition to the organic FB&B. - any advice on using these solutions appreciated.
My tap water is very hard which helps with the cal mag thing right? Will i lose the calcium if
I PH adjust?
Also re lights, I worked out my umol/w and it's around 3.34
Ca++
Well-known member
I like your vaulted ceiling.
Quite dusty them bottles. Be sure there are no solids forming in them. You will hear them slushing around in the bottom, if they have stood too long.
If they are from Newark, they get dusty by the paper shredder. I'm interested if they are still open, if you have been there. The GT lines are getting hard for me to get to locally.
Formulex tends to be a good starter feed. Seeds, cuttings, Veg. You can bloom with it, but it's not really right. They are mixing it for 100-19-138 which leaves the P a bit low. Perhaps some MKP would be useful. You could make 100-40-165 out of the pair.
It gives you 50ppm Ca, which is about where I would aim, but as it common with GT feeds, the Mg isn't listed. With your hard water, and the LED, you have two things likely to make the low Mg a problem. Some epsom salts will almost certainly be needed.
I have not used FBB for a while, and only outdoors. At that time I was also using potash. I think as the FBB is a little low in that regard.
I'm a hydro guy really, so can't say much about it. I know the blood is high N, and can be released quite quickly, but soil activity is crucial to all three. It feels out of my control. While messing with my numbers.
I will use soil indoor, but my mind still thinks like a hydro grower. I rarely take part in soil threads.
Quite dusty them bottles. Be sure there are no solids forming in them. You will hear them slushing around in the bottom, if they have stood too long.
If they are from Newark, they get dusty by the paper shredder. I'm interested if they are still open, if you have been there. The GT lines are getting hard for me to get to locally.
Formulex tends to be a good starter feed. Seeds, cuttings, Veg. You can bloom with it, but it's not really right. They are mixing it for 100-19-138 which leaves the P a bit low. Perhaps some MKP would be useful. You could make 100-40-165 out of the pair.
It gives you 50ppm Ca, which is about where I would aim, but as it common with GT feeds, the Mg isn't listed. With your hard water, and the LED, you have two things likely to make the low Mg a problem. Some epsom salts will almost certainly be needed.
I have not used FBB for a while, and only outdoors. At that time I was also using potash. I think as the FBB is a little low in that regard.
I'm a hydro guy really, so can't say much about it. I know the blood is high N, and can be released quite quickly, but soil activity is crucial to all three. It feels out of my control. While messing with my numbers.
I will use soil indoor, but my mind still thinks like a hydro grower. I rarely take part in soil threads.
Thank you for all your useful information my friend. I've stuck the plants under the big light now as I saw a taproot on one. With light at it highest its 370 ppfd round the edges 430 in the centre. Fingers crossed it's not too hot
Plants haven been under lights for 12 hours.
Average ppfd 400
Temps between 30c and 20c (max /min)
Humidity between 37% and 45% (max /min)
Actions: added two small fans lowest setting at top and bottom to circulate air (indirect)
pH adjusted 20 litres of tap water in bucket and brought into room
Added tray in corner with water in to attempt to increase humidity.
North side of room seems slightly cooler than south
Average ppfd 400
Temps between 30c and 20c (max /min)
Humidity between 37% and 45% (max /min)
Actions: added two small fans lowest setting at top and bottom to circulate air (indirect)
pH adjusted 20 litres of tap water in bucket and brought into room
Added tray in corner with water in to attempt to increase humidity.
North side of room seems slightly cooler than south
31st Am
outside temp 6c
Room: max 25.5c / 45% min MIn 24.3 / 40%
Notes: room now heated with Just LED light. Heater turned off last night. Created stable temps with fan blowing heat across top of ballast around room. Managed to raise humidity by soaking towel in water and hanging in room + chucking some water on the floor. Extraction rate around 20% of total capacity
outside temp 6c
Room: max 25.5c / 45% min MIn 24.3 / 40%
Notes: room now heated with Just LED light. Heater turned off last night. Created stable temps with fan blowing heat across top of ballast around room. Managed to raise humidity by soaking towel in water and hanging in room + chucking some water on the floor. Extraction rate around 20% of total capacity
31st PM
Room: Min 24c 36%rh Max 28c 43%rh
Actions: cables tidied and raised off floor /set up timers for light and heater for 16/8 starting noon till 6pm, soaked floor with hose and wet towel placed in effort to increase humidity further , plants lightly sprayed with water. Extract fan set roughly 20%
Notes: Growth progressing, second set of true leaves appearing. Low humidity still a problem.
Room: Min 24c 36%rh Max 28c 43%rh
Actions: cables tidied and raised off floor /set up timers for light and heater for 16/8 starting noon till 6pm, soaked floor with hose and wet towel placed in effort to increase humidity further , plants lightly sprayed with water. Extract fan set roughly 20%
Notes: Growth progressing, second set of true leaves appearing. Low humidity still a problem.
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1st Feb - 20:00
Room MAX 26c 63 % rh MIN 13c 36%rh
Actions. New wet towel laid out and soaked room walls and floor and light spray in top of soil
Notes
Clear the temps dropped whilst the light went off and the heater either didn't come on or just reacted slowly allowing a brief period of cold temps Need additional timer for fan also to turn off with lights. fan most probably sucking warm air out quickly. Hopefully Turning fan off will reduce heating requirements and help maintain higher humidity
Actions.
Turning extractor fan down a touch more. Also slip heater timer forward a touch to keep ahead of lights to see if helps. When timer arrives add to fan
Room MAX 26c 63 % rh MIN 13c 36%rh
Actions. New wet towel laid out and soaked room walls and floor and light spray in top of soil
Notes
Clear the temps dropped whilst the light went off and the heater either didn't come on or just reacted slowly allowing a brief period of cold temps Need additional timer for fan also to turn off with lights. fan most probably sucking warm air out quickly. Hopefully Turning fan off will reduce heating requirements and help maintain higher humidity
Actions.
Turning extractor fan down a touch more. Also slip heater timer forward a touch to keep ahead of lights to see if helps. When timer arrives add to fan
@GMT - That makes two of us. I'm hoping when the plants start to get a bit bigger and start transpiring it might raise on its own. The air is being drawn through two passive intakes which have 30cm square furnace filters could this dry the air? Wondering if the extractor fan is too high still - It's defo too big for the space I guess but one day I may extend and remove false wall so made sense to buy it
You'll need that extractor later, once they get big they will pump a lot of moisture into the air. So yes, that will take care of the humidity. I just can't understand the air being so dry now, considering you're drawing it in from the UK. Have you looked at the humidity outside at all? Is it falling in there or is it really that dry there? I can only really think it's your heater. If it's a convection heater, that may be the issue. You could replace it with an oil filled heater, as that wouldn't dry the air as much. I've got a big one that only cost 30 quid from a discount store. I run it at night when the central heating goes off. Humidity is my biggest issue year round.
@GMT the heater is not even on anymore the light keep it to temperature. My suspicion is it's the light. I think it's probably to big / strong I was told the flowering footprint was 1.5m and apparently its equivalent to a 1000w hps for the space. I worked out the umols/w and it's 3.34 which is quite high right? It's very hot considering it's an led. Honestly when I'm under it I'm almost cooking.
Hang on, [scratches head and starts mumbling], so 1.5 x 1.5 is about 5 x5 so 25 square foot. So 1000 divided by 25 is 40. But no that's equivalent and that's always bollocks so the actual is [looks back through thread], oh it's half that, 20w PSF? That's can't be right, that's good for seedlings, but you need double that to flower. The unit itself may get hot, but the area it covers should not be hot. Stick a fan blowing upwards into the light so it's blowing the heat away from the seedlings and that shouldn't be an issue. Untill you need another one to flower with. My larger tent is 2x4 so 8 SqF. I have a 300 in there. My smaller tent is 5.9 sqf. When I flower in there I have another 300w. I know which clones need which tent as the diff is clone specific. Right now it's vegging some clones and so is at half strength. I root clones at 5w sqf. I know umols etc are the current currency, but old money still works. For 500w you need to either reduce the foot print or buy another light. Either way, that unit can't be dropping the humidity by that much, unless it's extremely inefficient. Which LEDs shouldn't be. Even an hps of the same wattage couldn't do that much, not in that area.
The only other thing I can think is, is there anyway the brickwork is acting as a humidity sink?
Edit,:
Didn't you say the area was 4x9?
When you said 1.5, you don't mean 1.5 sqm do you? If so that light is putting out 250% of what you want. And that's during flowering. You're at seedling stage, Yes, that would do it.
The only other thing I can think is, is there anyway the brickwork is acting as a humidity sink?
Edit,:
Didn't you say the area was 4x9?
When you said 1.5, you don't mean 1.5 sqm do you? If so that light is putting out 250% of what you want. And that's during flowering. You're at seedling stage, Yes, that would do it.
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@GMT I'm not going to lie you have confused the hell out of me now! It's definitely got enough light, too much probably. The stated flowering foot print on the website is 1.5m x 1.5m. The space I am growing in is 1.3 wide x 2m long = 2.6 sqm.
Skyline 1000 LED grow lights – LED grow lights
ledhydroponics.co.uk
EDIT it's actually 1000 watts of lights but it only uses 500w of electricity , no idea how that works ?
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Sorry, that was the opposite of what I was aiming for. Let's try again. 4.5 x 6.6 = 29.7. let's round it up to 30. 500 /30= 16.66 watts of electrically powered led light per square foot of the grow. I know the greater the efficiency, the greater the reduction, but that seems too much. I'm way over double that and others are using more than me. I don't really understand how that light is strong enough for that area during flowering.
