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Indoor landrace preservation techniques.
- Thread starter Sunshineinabag
- Start date
PizzaMan5000
Member
I don't have LANDRACES but I have sativas and 5 other phenos inside a tiny area.
More about space and schedule than anything else.
I have three lit/light sealed areas were I can store mothers and fathers or flower them.
The thing is you need to keep them in veg for the length of time it takes to flower a damn sativa.
I would consider revegging clones from flower. Or buy some short flowering sativas and breed them from there.
Why not just buy sativas for your latitude? I'm growing out Shaman. Cheap and appropriate for Ohio I think. But due to Seedsman not shipping my order for 30 days, I had to throw them inside my dresser. I have 12; 8 shaman and four bagseeds in flower, in the BOTTOM HALF of a chest of drawers
16/8 veg, 11/13 flower.
So I have Sativas in 1l airpots, inside a 27" box. I only let them have four nodes before flower and it looks like I guessed perfectly. They have showed sex, and have room for a tad more stretch.
I bought lots of genes, and have two friends running different strains and phenos that I bought. I don't mind buying seeds for friends if they are pheno hunting! They're my friends, we can share genetics sooner than later! Literally cut my time down by 1/3. Something to be said for it.
25 phenos is 4 months is killer. None of us are "attached" to a given pheno, we are literally trying to find good mothers in the shortest time.
I just don't really see too much point in specifically running a LANDRACE from foreign land. Schedule doesn't make sense to me. I would rather start a pseudo landrace based on my area outdoors, or just pick a productive sativa for Indoor growing.
Just my .02
More about space and schedule than anything else.
I have three lit/light sealed areas were I can store mothers and fathers or flower them.
The thing is you need to keep them in veg for the length of time it takes to flower a damn sativa.
I would consider revegging clones from flower. Or buy some short flowering sativas and breed them from there.
Why not just buy sativas for your latitude? I'm growing out Shaman. Cheap and appropriate for Ohio I think. But due to Seedsman not shipping my order for 30 days, I had to throw them inside my dresser. I have 12; 8 shaman and four bagseeds in flower, in the BOTTOM HALF of a chest of drawers
16/8 veg, 11/13 flower.So I have Sativas in 1l airpots, inside a 27" box. I only let them have four nodes before flower and it looks like I guessed perfectly. They have showed sex, and have room for a tad more stretch.
I bought lots of genes, and have two friends running different strains and phenos that I bought. I don't mind buying seeds for friends if they are pheno hunting! They're my friends, we can share genetics sooner than later! Literally cut my time down by 1/3. Something to be said for it.
25 phenos is 4 months is killer. None of us are "attached" to a given pheno, we are literally trying to find good mothers in the shortest time.
I just don't really see too much point in specifically running a LANDRACE from foreign land. Schedule doesn't make sense to me. I would rather start a pseudo landrace based on my area outdoors, or just pick a productive sativa for Indoor growing.
Just my .02
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Rembetis
Active member
Your Johaar is pretty much the same as any Tropical. There is no veg cycle in the tropics. You have seedling stage and then about a month in they will throw pre flowers and go right into flower.
Now that you know the cycle for Johaar you have to modify it to what will work for you. To be practical, unless you have a large, high ceiling room you will have to start under 12/12. 13/11 will get you monsters. Let them get up and going for about a week and thats it. Drop them to 11/13 for a while but watch them. They will want to stretch which is okay. When they get about halfway to where you want them get them down to 10/14. They are like a freight train once they start the stretch. It will take awhile to get them stopped but 10/14 will do that.
Also, this is my method for feeding. Do not feed N. Very little if you must. Dont use Happy Frog or any other loaded with Nutes soil mix. It'll make them reach for the sky. If you see some yellowing feed something low N like 2-2-2. Feed plenty of P and some K. They need it and the faster you get them into heavy flower mode the less they will want to stretch.
Also another little trick for Sativas. Start them in a small pot. When they are about a month in and 6 to 8 nodes tall transplant them into a bigger pot. Be quick and easy with them so you dont stress them. Transplanting at that time triggers flowering for some reason. I use that little trick on every run and it works great on many strains
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PizzaMan5000
Member
Supposedly 87% sativa, purple #1 x early skunk. But an established outdoor strain for the US and UK. Hell no, not PURE Sativa! But it's tall, stretchy, airy, low yield, low thc, etc etc.... A sativa lmao
I wasn't even gonna use them indoors if at all! They were for a potential outdoor plot.
https://dutch-passion.com/en/cannab...write=cannabis-seeds&selected_filters=shaman/
It's just the slight difference between a landrace sativa (and it's obscure environment) vs a mostly sativa that's easier/more productive indoors or in my climate would be my vote. Especially when you are probably talking 10% thc and giant plants with low yields indoors.
The "sativa" high is all I want. I wanna draw pictures and throw a frisbee, I don't do that on 90% of the modern weed available to me.
Mexican dirt weed for cheap in Arizona was my favorite high ever!
So if there's a specific landrace you know by name and love, then buy it! But otherwise landrace is kind of a moot point because we aren't on the shady side of a mountain in tibet ha ha. They just survive in an obscure environment, they aren't selected for yield, thc content, or effect. They just survived.
So landrace is basically just for educational reference in a way. Ya know?
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Rembetis
Active member
Hey Pizzaman, we all gotta grow what makes us happy.
My frame of reference comes from the great imported Columbians, Panama Reds, Acapulco Gold, Jamaicans, Thais etc that we smoked in the 70's. There are qualities and subtleties to the smoke that you just cant experience in the weed now. You like the clear and creative Sativa high so you know some of what I am talking about already.
I can completely understand why you want a no hassle Sat dom cross. For me its about growing the ultimate smoke with all the richness and multi dimensional qualities that it offers. And the satisfaction that comes from achieving that heavenly smoke.
I would have to disagree with you about the Landraces. Its always been about effect in the native lands.
My frame of reference comes from the great imported Columbians, Panama Reds, Acapulco Gold, Jamaicans, Thais etc that we smoked in the 70's. There are qualities and subtleties to the smoke that you just cant experience in the weed now. You like the clear and creative Sativa high so you know some of what I am talking about already.
I can completely understand why you want a no hassle Sat dom cross. For me its about growing the ultimate smoke with all the richness and multi dimensional qualities that it offers. And the satisfaction that comes from achieving that heavenly smoke.
I would have to disagree with you about the Landraces. Its always been about effect in the native lands.
PizzaMan5000
Member
Well, I will take pics but with my 1 liter air pots and flipping to 11/13 at day 24 from seed (starting 4th node) they went from 5" to about 12" in ten days from the flip. They are on their 6th node I think, but the main stem is "zig zagging" like it's done putting on nodes. But this is the most sativa dominant plant I have flowered.
I'm happy to report I saw several root tips sticking out the bottom of my air pots last night. I am crossing my fingers, but if they don't stretch any further than 4 more inches I'm calling it a tremendous win.
Even though these were flowered under stronger lights and in smaller pots, the internode spacing is longer than my stretchiest bag seeds. I left NO TIME for side growth in my case. I have some topped ones I just flipped, I gave them only two nodes on their secondary growth before flip.
Hope this helps with taming indoors. Sea of green seems like the name of the game to me. Tiny ass fabric or air pots to restrict them, and a shorter light schedule. Maybe Dixie cups for mothers?
aliceklar
Well-known member
Heh, dude I'm along for the ride. Good to learn stuff and get ideas of things to try. here's how much the Johaar have grown from 2nd - 5th October. They are actually slowing down a bit now (unlike the JxNLH which are beasts)
aliceklar
Well-known member
Thanks - just digested all this. That makes a lot of sense. I'm doing a lot of that already (started in 7cm pots, potted on to 11cm after a month) and have been feeding minimally - and only where individual plants showed signed of needing it. Very little N and lots of bonemeal & kelp in the compost. But the last grow and my current grow I started under 18/6. Might try next time with starting them under 13/11 or even 12/12 and see what difference that makes. Will also try in this grow incrementally dropping the light down to 11/13 or even 10/14 to see what that does. Because I'm growing in such small pots (1 litre), that should speed things up.
Yes but the thread is about preserving landrace indoors so I don't know why you are saying it's a moot point. A 90% sativa hybrid is not a landrace. I think sunshineinabag is wanting to grow varieties such as are available at the RSC, which are mostly landraces. I disagree that there is only slight difference between a sativa hybrid and a landrace. I think there's significant difference depending what you grow of course. Indica affects the high.
Don't get me wrong, I like hybrids. But there is real difference in highs between pure sativa and very sativa dominant varieties.
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aliceklar
Well-known member
Why not just buy sativas for your latitude? I'm growing out Shaman. Cheap and appropriate for Ohio I think. But due to Seedsman not shipping my order for 30 days, I had to throw them inside my dresser. I have 11 shaman and four bagseeds in flower, in the BOTTOM HALF of a chest of drawers
So I have Sativas in 1l airpots, inside a 27" box. I only let them have four nodes before flower and it looks like I guessed perfectly. They have showed sex, and have room for a tad more stretch.
Thanks! Shaman looks fun. I've been thinking about the "grow plants closer to your own latitude" idea. Next run I have some Syrian, which are a little further north than the Johaaar (34N compared to 29N) and am looking at TRSC Siberian. which is closer to my latitude.
Tho.. this will be more for a friend who grows outdoors that it will be for me...i cant grow outdoors where I am - its all in a tiny bedroom cupboard:
(veg to the left, flower to the right, compartmentalised and light-blocked with blackout curtains)
Having lots of fun with this - trying to bonsai these huge plants is a mission, but I really love the happy mellow quality of their smoke.
Rembetis
Active member
They werent as big as what I was expecting them to be. Should still be able to tame them down just fine.
PizzaMan5000
Member
On the landrace subject, yes I guess not "moot".
But can't landrace also mean indica plant? I always considered landrace as local darwinism, vs "cultivar" where a human controls the evolution more than competition from other plants.
But yes, I know people basically call "vintage" sativas landrace strains, but isn't kush a landrace too? Regardless, I'm not trying to be combative, I'm just saying technically landraces aren't always sativa.
So a hybrid could be more sativa than a landrace
Anyway, sounds like all of us are trying (in my mind) the same thing; less than 12/12 indoors, tiny pots. I took the "short veg" to the extreme. Others take the short light cycle to the extreme.
This thread makes me want to buy some "mexican" seeds. I'm a millennial so I haven't smoked any of those strains you listed );
Grew up on WW, Blueberry, GDP.... "Mids" were just skunk basically. I never saw brick weed till I was college aged, and dealing with more serious dudes.
If anything, I never got a chance to smoke anything pure/dominant sativa as a kid grew up on hydro and skunk/ruderalis outdoor.
But can't landrace also mean indica plant? I always considered landrace as local darwinism, vs "cultivar" where a human controls the evolution more than competition from other plants.
But yes, I know people basically call "vintage" sativas landrace strains, but isn't kush a landrace too? Regardless, I'm not trying to be combative, I'm just saying technically landraces aren't always sativa.
So a hybrid could be more sativa than a landrace
Anyway, sounds like all of us are trying (in my mind) the same thing; less than 12/12 indoors, tiny pots. I took the "short veg" to the extreme. Others take the short light cycle to the extreme.
This thread makes me want to buy some "mexican" seeds. I'm a millennial so I haven't smoked any of those strains you listed );
Grew up on WW, Blueberry, GDP.... "Mids" were just skunk basically. I never saw brick weed till I was college aged, and dealing with more serious dudes.
If anything, I never got a chance to smoke anything pure/dominant sativa as a kid
grew up on hydro and skunk/ruderalis outdoor.
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aliceklar
Well-known member
... can't landrace also mean indica plant? ...
So a hybrid could be more sativa than a landrace
Anyway, sounds like all of us are trying (in my mind) the same thing; less than 12/12 indoors, tiny pots. I took the "short veg" to the extreme. Others take the short light cycle to the extreme.
.
"Landrace" can be used in different ways (some people use it to mean a strain that has been around a long time, like an heirloom) and there are lots of arguments about what it means. When I use it (and I think sunshine and rembetis use it the same way) I mean "a traditional cannabis type that has been grown and selected by local farmers in a particular region for generations" - basically, the old and diverse genepools that spawned all the modern hybrids. Theres a good article about what "landraces" are on TRSC website.
and the weird thing is, as you say, "landraces" can also be "indica" (in the stereotypical sense of the word - ie,, they could be short, fat leaved varieties from Afghanistan or Pakistan that produce lots of stinky resin and have a sedative knock-out stone). Modern uses of the words "indica" and "sativa" often dont mean much, although I know what you mean about the euphoric clean high associated with "sativas" - I love that too
And yeah - small pots, light nutrients, experimenting with veg length and light cycles - all different ways of working with big wild plants indoors.
aliceklar
Well-known member
I really dig older sat Dom euphoric chemovars. I digress I am on the 45 parallel or thereabouts...so I have 4-5 solid months of below 40f temps. May I ask the farmers here with experience trying this would give for advice in regards to all facets/stages of life for the chemovars. Can newer led tech get the job done for landraces? I appreciate your advice/help.
Sunshine, which landraces are you growing? Or what types are you thinking of growing?
aliceklar
Well-known member
Awesome
i've just dialed the light settings back from 12/12 to 11/13 anyway - am keen to get them all into flower asap before we have a Day of the Triffids scenario. Thanks again for the advice.
B
Benny106
Rembetis
Active member
Pizzaman, Landraces come from all over the world so yes you can have a Kush or Afghani Landrace. BLD and NLD types with every effect. And I think we are all pretty much on the same page on that.
This discussion was more about the large types which tend to give trouble when trying to grow indoors. They are also found all over the world. The Mazari types for example are tough and I think they are considered to be Kushs. Still mixed up with the recent re classification of Cannabis
This discussion was more about the large types which tend to give trouble when trying to grow indoors. They are also found all over the world. The Mazari types for example are tough and I think they are considered to be Kushs. Still mixed up with the recent re classification of Cannabis
PizzaMan5000
Member
Yeah these shaman are tall already. I looks like a pheno is much taller than the others. My internode spacing has about tripled in the first 11 days.
At least they are fast and I won't have to deal with them for the rest of the year. Not topping them was a bad choice me thinks. Looks like I will have to tie them by next week :/ thankfully only three have height issues.
I have three topped plants shortly behind, with two nodes per branch instead of four nodes on the main stem. Hopefully these will be a better size. I'm not gonna train them anymore, just four wimpy colas hopefully.
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