how about taking the reflector out of there until they toughen up a bit ?
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TREE KING
turn the lights off?
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TREE KING
what do you guys think? see how in picture 3 the tips are pointed down? growth is crazy slow. its not even at the end of the light cycle too where they get worse. the light been on for 8 hours.
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TREE KING
sproutco, if i give them max light, 5 minutes later every single plant will be drooping much worse and they will stop growing all together.
no, i meant take the reflector out of there but leave the light running on your regular schedule . taking the reflector out will decrease the intensity of the light which the plants are recieving . consider what others have said, this is likely a normal plant reaction and i am guessing that over the next day or 2 the sag will be minimized due to the plant(s) having acclimatized . also, the suggestion that you use cfl's for a while is a good one . why blast 1000watts where 150 will do ?
what is the temperature at the top of the plant(s) ?
what is the temperature at the top of the plant(s) ?
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TREE KING
sproutco, that could have something to do with it but are you saying the leaves dont sag if the light is too strong? i tried to take the trash bags off 4 or 5 days ago and as soon as i did every plant started sagging real bad 5 minutes later. even plants that were totaly healthy started sagging. how would you explain that?
this paragraph below is someone else who is trying to fix this problem on another forum. i think he has a point. this is what he said.
""""I think isnt the light itself, but all the environment. Your plants cant transpire enough to process all the light they are receiving.
There are many factors that affect this.
First one is water potential. If pots are small, and plants transpire a lot, there is a point where water potential is low and plants cant transpire more at the rate needed. If roots havent enough development yet, they cant uptake enough water, too.
Other factor is VPD (vapor pressure defficit). It depend of the air temp, humidity and IR percentage of the light. Suboptimum VPD difficult transpiration and water uptake. If you join it with low water potential, you get your scenario: leaves sagging after some hours, and very reduced photosyntesis before that (slower growth).
Ensure your plants have enough water: if pots are small, maybe you need to water more frecuently. Induce root development. Using root stimulator when transplanting and putting below the HPS is very useful. And raise the ambient humidity to 60-65%. If necessary, use semienclosed domes until plants grow more and adapt to new lighting.
Photosyntetic plant's system take about a week to get fully adapted to a new lighting. If you give the right conditions to your plants, they will manage the 1000w HPS light without problems, and you will be able to unshade the lamp and putting it closer progressively.
BTW, you didnt provide the unit used in lighting measurement. 4000 what? If its lux, its very low. If its fc, its a decent light density, although still strong for young plants."""
you guys think he has a point? ever since he told me that ive been keeping my shower on to add humidity and the plants are getting a tiny bit better.
this paragraph below is someone else who is trying to fix this problem on another forum. i think he has a point. this is what he said.
""""I think isnt the light itself, but all the environment. Your plants cant transpire enough to process all the light they are receiving.
There are many factors that affect this.
First one is water potential. If pots are small, and plants transpire a lot, there is a point where water potential is low and plants cant transpire more at the rate needed. If roots havent enough development yet, they cant uptake enough water, too.
Other factor is VPD (vapor pressure defficit). It depend of the air temp, humidity and IR percentage of the light. Suboptimum VPD difficult transpiration and water uptake. If you join it with low water potential, you get your scenario: leaves sagging after some hours, and very reduced photosyntesis before that (slower growth).
Ensure your plants have enough water: if pots are small, maybe you need to water more frecuently. Induce root development. Using root stimulator when transplanting and putting below the HPS is very useful. And raise the ambient humidity to 60-65%. If necessary, use semienclosed domes until plants grow more and adapt to new lighting.
Photosyntetic plant's system take about a week to get fully adapted to a new lighting. If you give the right conditions to your plants, they will manage the 1000w HPS light without problems, and you will be able to unshade the lamp and putting it closer progressively.
BTW, you didnt provide the unit used in lighting measurement. 4000 what? If its lux, its very low. If its fc, its a decent light density, although still strong for young plants."""
you guys think he has a point? ever since he told me that ive been keeping my shower on to add humidity and the plants are getting a tiny bit better.
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You're having a transpiration issue, not a light intensity issue. For the millionth time lower the light...you're plants are stretching like crazy because there's not enough light and stretching is not a desirable trait - I think you're confusing stretching for growth. You want a short distance between the nodes so that when you flower them the buds will be solid colas and not just random nugs on a vine.
I've vegged MANY clones under 1k's and never had problems due to light intensity...even at 125w sq/ft.
What's your ventilation (exhaust and air circulation), feeding/watering schedule, and room temps vs. canopy temps?
I assume that's an ebb/flow setup?
I've vegged MANY clones under 1k's and never had problems due to light intensity...even at 125w sq/ft.
What's your ventilation (exhaust and air circulation), feeding/watering schedule, and room temps vs. canopy temps?
I assume that's an ebb/flow setup?
G
Guest
Completely normal. The plants go into a droopy state during the night cycle. Drooping a few hrs before lights out is also normal. Think of it as sleeping after a hard days work. If u look at ur plants during lights off u will see that they are all droopy. And during the day they are perked up again.
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TREE KING
MTF-Sandman, i understand what your saying but if i lower the light there going to get worse. should i still do it even though they will droop more? on my last post i wrote what someone on another forum told me. and what he said was higher the humidity and give the plants less light untill the problem is fixed. but if you think thats wrong i will try it your way. the last time i lowered the light they drooped extremely bad immediately. does everyone else agree that i should give them stronger light?
another thing you guys have to understand is my last 2 crops had this problem and when i flowered the plants i lost my whole entire crop because the plants never flowered completely. they looked like that in flower and never grew buds. i had them in flower for 4 months and they never matured into full buds. and also for a few of my plants they droop 24 7. not just before the light go off. this is only a problem for me with seeds. with clones ive never had this problem.
another thing you guys have to understand is my last 2 crops had this problem and when i flowered the plants i lost my whole entire crop because the plants never flowered completely. they looked like that in flower and never grew buds. i had them in flower for 4 months and they never matured into full buds. and also for a few of my plants they droop 24 7. not just before the light go off. this is only a problem for me with seeds. with clones ive never had this problem.
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MTF-Sandman, ok i did what you said. theres no trashbags over the light anymore. there getting full strenth. i hope your right and lets see what happens. il post more pics soon.
MTF-Sandman said:
Any word on the details previously requested? Also if they do "sag" again can you get a pic of it in action so we can see what's going on?
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TREE KING
yes ebb an flow. i just have a tray in the middle of a 12 x 16 x 8 room that is sealed. no window ac. i keep the door open when the light is on and it stays around 79. i watered a couple days ago and ive varied when ive watered because im trying different cycles to fix the problem. these cubes are the big ones. 6 inch squared and they hold alot of water. it seems like if anything im watering too much. ive never to this point picked up the cubes and have them be light. the light just came on 2 hours ago and everything looks good right now. i just noticed a tiny bit of tip burn so im about to flood them with 100 percent water. i just ordered some voodoo juice, parahna, and tarantula. i'l be adding that tuesday. hopefully that will kick the plants into gear if they dont get too much better by then. i will post some pics later on today.
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Be careful flushing them if you think they might be getting overwatered...for future grows, you might want to go with 3 or 4" cubes at this stage then stack it on a 6" as they outgrow the cube. For the flushing, you might want to just add a small amount of straight water via manual top feed to help dilute any salts that might be left in the RW. That way they'll still have food available (but not as strong) and they won't be getting pounded with too much H2O which may be causing some root issues.
Generally the best practice IME is to water them lightly and more often...having more optimal sized cubes will make this more appearant as they'll take off with dense growth.
RE the AN stuff: Go easy on em at first...they're probably still stressed from the moisture issues, but they should be good to go with the higher strengths after 1-2 weeks of getting used to the new stuff.
Generally the best practice IME is to water them lightly and more often...having more optimal sized cubes will make this more appearant as they'll take off with dense growth.
RE the AN stuff: Go easy on em at first...they're probably still stressed from the moisture issues, but they should be good to go with the higher strengths after 1-2 weeks of getting used to the new stuff.
Don Juan
Member
MTF-Sandman said:
As I said earlier in the thread, Tree King, the only light-related problem you'll be experiencing is extreme plant stretch.
As for the intensity issue regarding the light, your plants are now about three+ weeks old and they shouldn't have an problem with this. A well-rooted plant should easily deal with good light - just like in nature.
I believe your problem is something peculiar to hydroponics. In fact, I suspect it has to do with an over-saturated medium, but unfortunately I'm not a hydro expert.
I know that it may seem like there's a direct connection between the problem and light intensity, but I don't think it makes much sense.
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Don Juan
Member
Yes..At this point, I'd have to say that it's time to lessen the moisture in the medium. I think that's going to be your best bet. Droopiness is a classic sign of over-saturation, too.
By the way, Tree King, I'm glad to see you're sticking with it. Just calmly work through this problem, and the plants will come back as strong as ever. Don't give up.
By the way, Tree King, I'm glad to see you're sticking with it. Just calmly work through this problem, and the plants will come back as strong as ever. Don't give up.
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TREE KING
i just want you guys to know that these plants are from seed. i never have this problem with clones. i can give small clones full light the first day and there fine. this is only a problem when i grow seeds out. i can do a full harvest with clones perfectly and get impressive weight.
ny general, i think i agree with what you said about watering once a week. my intention from the beginning every time was to give the plants 200 ppm of b-52 from the beginning and then wait untill the cubes get bone dry. but everytime i try to do that, 5 or 6 days later without me watering a second time they start to sag. and then after that im thinking hmmmmmm, they must need nutrients. so i then water them again with 300 ppm nutrients. after that they seem to get better for like 5 hours and then they start sagging again. then i raise the nutrients again and the same thing happens. as far as the fan goes you guys should see how messed up the plants get when i put a fan on them. even if i just have a fan blowing new air into the room the plant stalk starts bending and leaves start bending in different direction. the way its looking to me is that the plants cant handle the envirement for some reason. i think as soon as the root system gets bigger they will get better. ive only given them some parahna up to this point. i gave them pure water yesterday because i noticed some tip burn and now that i know the plants arent getting more burned i wont water again untill i get my voodoo juice, parahna, and tarantula on wednesday. i seriously hope and think that the plants will get better after that. i noticed that yesterday after i gave them strait water, every plant started to sag a tiny bit but there were no more leaves twisting and looking weird anymore. its kind of hard to explain. im going to take some pics right now so you all can see how they look.
ny general, i think i agree with what you said about watering once a week. my intention from the beginning every time was to give the plants 200 ppm of b-52 from the beginning and then wait untill the cubes get bone dry. but everytime i try to do that, 5 or 6 days later without me watering a second time they start to sag. and then after that im thinking hmmmmmm, they must need nutrients. so i then water them again with 300 ppm nutrients. after that they seem to get better for like 5 hours and then they start sagging again. then i raise the nutrients again and the same thing happens. as far as the fan goes you guys should see how messed up the plants get when i put a fan on them. even if i just have a fan blowing new air into the room the plant stalk starts bending and leaves start bending in different direction. the way its looking to me is that the plants cant handle the envirement for some reason. i think as soon as the root system gets bigger they will get better. ive only given them some parahna up to this point. i gave them pure water yesterday because i noticed some tip burn and now that i know the plants arent getting more burned i wont water again untill i get my voodoo juice, parahna, and tarantula on wednesday. i seriously hope and think that the plants will get better after that. i noticed that yesterday after i gave them strait water, every plant started to sag a tiny bit but there were no more leaves twisting and looking weird anymore. its kind of hard to explain. im going to take some pics right now so you all can see how they look.
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TREE KING
