If a Female Hermie's after EXTREME Stress, are the Seeds Always Bad ?

[Ready4]

Wrong info in both directions. With the severe stress of freezing, many "stable" strains would "hermie" - early fem seeds were created by stress/"selfing" & still are.
All the OG"s & Chems are from bagseed, as are many other strains.

A personal example would be a Golden Triangle strain I have. The first few times I ran her, I would find a few seeds ( no worries) Then during a run, I found a full blown cluster of male flowers - disappointing but not ready to cull it ( awesome smoke !)

Then, the next night I was looking it over for any more when the light shut down for the night. I noticed a narrow direct beam of light - it was coming from the veg tent exhaust flap which had a extra small hole at the end = it was direct at where I found the flower cluster. So, the next time I ran it, clipped off all the low crap branches, made sure no light leaks and...... zero seeds = not a "hermie"

Had a strain a couple years ago that the lower crap branches had to be chopped to avoid seeds. Trimming resulted in zero seeds . Growing outdoors, it grew into big fat bush - did zero trimming, found zero seeds.
So try trimming those tiny crappy branches at the bottom - you may find that your "hermie" is not a "hermie" after all.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Ready4, that's a great example of finding what is triggering the hermie. I've had the same thing happen a few times myself.

Light leaks are just *one* of the many stressors I put plants through before considering them for breeding. As far as I'm concerned, the plants should be resistant to all types of stress, so much so that they require using silver to reverse. Silver is not something you'll find in a regular grow room, so it's the only thing I want my plants going 'hermie' from.

I have a light leak proof strain I'm currently working with, but there are tons of other stressors it must go through first before I'll breed with it. I literally have the top half flowering, with the bottom half exposed to light leaks every night. Zip, zero, nada nanners or pollen. Once I find representations which also shrug off all the other stressors, I'll think about releasing seeds from it and using it in my own garden.

Less than this level of work and I urge you to keep your seeds to yourself. Yes, mankind has spent millions(billions/trillions/quadrillions?) of man hours culling hermies and I'm working to continue the trend.

 

[Ready4]

Ready4, that's a great example of finding what is triggering the hermie. I've had the same thing happen a few times myself.

Light leaks are just *one* of the many stressors I put plants through before considering them for breeding. As far as I'm concerned, the plants should be resistant to all types of stress, so much so that they require using silver to reverse. Silver is not something you'll find in a regular grow room, so it's the only thing I want my plants going 'hermie' from.

I have a light leak proof strain I'm currently working with, but there are tons of other stressors it must go through first before I'll breed with it. I literally have the top half flowering, with the bottom half exposed to light leaks every night. Zip, zero, nada nanners or pollen. Once I find representations which also shrug off all the other stressors, I'll think about releasing seeds from it and using it in my own garden.

Less than this level of work and I urge you to keep your seeds to yourself. Yes, mankind has spent millions(billions/trillions/quadrillions?) of man hours culling hermies and I'm working to continue the trend.

The problem is your mistaken belief of what a "hermie" is. I guarantee that plant of yours will produce male flowers with extreme stress. Natural grows are outdoors- most strains that produce a few seeds will produce zero outdoors.

A true hermie will produce lots of seeds with zero stress.

Realistically, the puny bottom branches produce so little - it benefits yield and time to trim them off.
U are not on a righteous quest to cull all "hermies" = seeds will be given away with instructions on how to grow. It is not a 'level of work" , it is just THE reality of growing indoors. The very idea of culling an awesome strain because somebody is too lazy to trim, is outright laughable.
and prior to the discovery of the light leak cause, I was very skeptical that "light leaks" could cause male flowers - have had strains that appeared "bullet proof" as lights left on, just like u are now doing, produced zero seeds.

What you are now doing is nothing new, nothing ground shaking about it. Strains you have now maybe derived from bagseeds - breeder stories are often fiction to sell seeds.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

lol, we're not talking puny bottom branches here, the light-leaks begin about halfway through the canopy. The strain's ability to shrug off light leaks is simply one stressor which it has passed. As I stated earlier, there's a lot more stress coming for this strain the next few years.

My definition of hermie is any unstable plant which readily expresses both sexes, the presence or absence of stress during this expression is irrelevant. I consider silver an ethylene production suppressant, not a hermie stressor.

As for something new, ground breaking... lol All I'm advocating is due diligence if you're going to breed, and using a raw project strain as an example. Thanks though.

 

[Ready4]

lol, we're not talking puny bottom branches here, the light-leaks begin about halfway through the canopy. The strain's ability to shrug off light leaks is simply one stressor which it has passed. As I stated earlier, there's a lot more stress coming for this strain the next few years.

My definition of hermie is any unstable plant which readily expresses both sexes, the presence or absence of stress during this expression is irrelevant. I consider silver an ethylene production suppressant, not a hermie stressor.

As for something new, ground breaking... lol All I'm advocating is due diligence if you're going to breed, and using a raw project strain as an example. Thanks though.

You just fail to grasp several things. Call "silver" what you want but it is a chemical stress that causes male flowers - in reality, no different than other stresses that cause male flowers. Both "silver" and other stresses produce fem seeds = the desired end result.

The "puny little branches" is not directed at what you are doing - just common cause of some seeds that many of us deal with. Most plants people claim are "hermies" are not true hermies.

People should try trimming the puny branches before they toss a strain. The great advantage of having a strain that you know will make a few seeds, if you leave those puny branches, was explained by Mriko above in his post. It is easy to get back up fem seeds by just not trimming. Or have zero seeds if you trim.

The quality of the strain is the most important.

Nobody will need your breeding project "strain" if it is not excellent herb. Most strains can be grown with zero seeds, nothing new there.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

You just fail to grasp several things. Call "silver" what you want but it is a chemical stress that causes male flowers - in reality, no different than other stresses that cause male flowers. Both "silver" and other stresses produce fem seeds = the desired end result.

MAAAAAASIVE difference between environmental stressors and an element which is only in a grow for one purpose. The first type of strain I'm not interested in, and the second is the type I (and anyone working with cannabis) am working to create and maintain.

Unless you used silver or similar way to reverse it, it's an unwanted hermie.

 

[El Timbo]

One of the girls that got frozen - and recovered - came out with some Hermie's pretty much overnight.
seeds ?

How do you know it wouldn't have eventually produced male flowers even without being frozen?

 

[St. Phatty]

How do you know it wouldn't have eventually produced male flowers even without being frozen?

without a control, of course i don't know that. but i do know that the stressor was exceptional and very controllable - 2 things it has in common with silver spray.


i took clones from every plant that survived the freeze, including the female that went hermie.

one of the hermie plants clones is still going.

if it reverts to veg., i will grow her out and put her in a spot that is protected from the wind, where i normally flower males.

then keep an eye on her.

meanwhile, she has 2 children sprouted to also keep an eye on. maybe i'll put them in the male flowering area too.

 

[Ready4]

MAAAAAASIVE difference between environmental stressors and an element which is only in a grow for one purpose. The first type of strain I'm not interested in, and the second is the type I (and anyone working with cannabis) am working to create and maintain.

Unless you used silver or similar way to reverse it, it's an unwanted hermie.

I believe your intentions are earnest but you are simply delusional.
Understand clearly that a "hermie" is a female plant that will make male flowers without any stresses - an example would be an outdoor female plant that just made male flowers in normal weather = that is a true 'hermie".

"anyone working with cannabis" = delusion. Most people are not on the same obsession as you are. Most of us know how to prevent male flowers or make hem if we want seeds.

Understand that being willing to use "silver" in the garden, you are willing to use toxic poisons around your plants. Insanity at best.
Try using male plants instead.

 

[djonkoman]

even if all plants would eventually hermi if you give them enough stress(which I don't believe in, but ok), the degree of stress that causes it is still relevant.

for example, for me a plant that would get male flowers when exposed to freezing would be absolutely worthless to me. I grow outdoor in a somewhat northern climate, so it is pretty common for my plants to experience some nightfrosts towards the end of flower. if that caused the plant to herm I don't want it, no matter if it would grow fire weed if grown in a stress-free environment.

imo, any plant that expresses any kind of herming under stress should go into the garbage bin. exceptions could be made if it's an exceptional plant and/or the stress needed to turn it is very high. but those are the exceptions, the rule is still garbage bin.

comparing sts-caused sex reversal tp stress-herming is just wrong imo. it's not 'chemical stress', it's an ethylene blocker which interferes with sex expression through hormones. that'd be like saying a human woman who takes testosterone and develops facial hair growth is growing hairs because of chemical stress.

 

[Ready4]

without a control, of course i don't know that. but i do know that the stressor was exceptional and very controllable - 2 things it has in common with silver spray.


i took clones from every plant that survived the freeze, including the female that went hermie.

one of the hermie plants clones is still going.

if it reverts to veg., i will grow her out and put her in a spot that is protected from the wind, where i normally flower males.

then keep an eye on her.

meanwhile, she has 2 children sprouted to also keep an eye on. maybe i'll put them in the male flowering area too.

That sounds like a solid plan of action. Likely there will be no male flowers with no stresses - freezing usually kills plants = very tough genetics, would be foolish to throw away without further testing. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]y[/FONT]