ICmag Vegetarians - convert me!

[waydee]

Hello all, I recently decided I would like to give vegetarianism a shot... i'm not sure why, it's certainly something i've never considered before but it seems so simple... I often found myself wondering why I was including meat products in my food for no real benefit and I started to get disgusted when I saw chickens in supermarkets pumped full of hormones and sold at the lowest possible price... I do realise there are more ethical means of eating meat (i.e buying genuinely free range organic meats etc.) but I figured by cutting out the meat entirely I could really help myself.

I'd like to lose a bit of weight ideally, im 5'11 180lbs and I can cook well enough. Most of my meals already include a lot of vegetables since i'm on a pretty low income and well, vegetables are cheap.

I just came back from my local supermarket and normally i'd have bought at least one meat product in my weekly shop, if not more so I figured i'd just leave it out this time... go a week on just vegetables and see how I feel. Is this a good way of converting myself? i'd really like for it to work, i'm already making a real effort to cut out dairy products from my life since I believe i'm lactose intolerant, in the past 6 months i've noticed a big change and dairy tends to make me feel real ill so i'm trying to get used to soy milk.

I figure I can do it, for all the vegetarians here was it just a case of making the decision one day and that was it, were you ever tempted?


cheers guys

 

[HeadyPete]

Hey waydee.

I used to eat alot more meat but my wife is not too into meat so I gradually cut down. I still eat it but more pork, chicken breast once in a while.

More veggie meals now that taste great and I lost weight as well!

Good luck and I hear you about the gross grocery store chicken. Eww! You can taste the difference.

I like soy hot dogs cuz they taste like real dogs, aren't gross like dogs, have zero fat and the veggie protein and cancer fight of soy is worth it!

 

[Tarkus]

Wow, I am completely the opposite. I eat nothing but meat, I probably eat about 4 vegetables a week. I know it is not good, need to get into a better habit. I do eat alot of fruit. I love fruit, but not the veggies so much. But I love meat, I love it. I can't ever imagine becoming a vegetarian. That would be one of my stages of hell.
But good for you. I hope you do well and enjoy it. I have known quite a few vegetarians, and they all seemed to love it. Pretty much just one day decided to stop eaing meat, and never went back.
I hope you like it alot. I'll eat a big steak for ya, ha!

 

[Guest423]

ur crazy...meat is the bomb....but whatever floats ur boat....for all u people that want to convert to a vegetarian your first step is to send all your meat to me! protein is good for you....without dairy or meat your pretty limited if you think about it....your left with veggies,noodles, fruit and bread.

 

[waydee]

You have pulses for your protein man, i've no qualms with the tastiness of meat but its just too expensive to eat good quality meat, I realise I could just make it an occasional thing but why not go all out. I figure if I can do a week or two of this it'll just become normal, i'll save money and ultimately be healthier I think.

 

[waydee]

Hey waydee.

I used to eat alot more meat but my wife is not too into meat so I gradually cut down. I still eat it but more pork, chicken breast once in a while.

More veggie meals now that taste great and I lost weight as well!

Good luck and I hear you about the gross grocery store chicken. Eww! You can taste the difference.

I like soy hot dogs cuz they taste like real dogs, aren't gross like dogs, have zero fat and the veggie protein and cancer fight of soy is worth it!

Amazing what a girl will do to you huh i've never tried any soy meat substitutes, I can see them being essential/really improving a lot of dishes though where you need that texture you just can't get from meat.

 

[Guest]

ive never really been into the taste of meat, i havent eaten any land animals in longer than i can remember. i am not, in my mind, a vegetarian though, i fucking love seafood!

 

[waydee]

ive never really been into the taste of meat, i havent eaten any land animals in longer than i can remember. i am not, in my mind, a vegetarian though, i fucking love seafood!

I've a niggling feeling seafood will be my vice as well... my budget will hopefully keep me away from the shrimp and scallops though

 

[Nikijad4210]

If you like something, but have an issue with the ethics, find an alternative, don't just dump it outright. Find yourself a butcher, and not one in a grocery store, either, a private business butcher. There used to be a really good one in my area that only dealt with meat from small local farms, no mainstraim shit. Too bad the guy retired (we think. either that or he died)

i'm already making a real effort to cut out dairy products from my life since I believe i'm lactose intolerant

OK, my husband's genuinely lactose intolerant. Seeing as how the world's ripe with misinfo & lack of good info, let ask----Are you diagnosed as lactose intolerant, or are you taking/have taken OTC lactose intolerance medicines? If you're taken the OTC's and they've worked, you're not lactose intolerant, but rather, lactose sensitive. There's a big differance between the 2, LI being a complete inability to break down & digest the lactose in the body as a result of your body not having the necessary protein to break the lactose down, which is poisonous to the body in it's unaltered state---Take in too much lactose if you can't break it down, and you get lactose poisoning, which my husband's had, and it's not pleasant, as it requires a hospital stay for a few days minimum of treatment & monitoring. Lactose poisoning can result in intestinal bleeding, uncontrolable fever, and organ failure. True lactose intolerance is often misdiagnosed as a dairy allergy, which in itself it can be, considering the allergic-like reaction your body tosses forth---sweating, swelling, breathing changes, heart rate changes, etc. WolfSpider carried an epipen for many years for emergency use if he ingested something with too much lactose. Now, he has a tolerance level of amounts he can ingest---His maximum is a teaspoon of milk, or 1/2 of a cheese cube (like Kraft's cubed cheeses) before he starts feeling ill effects.

It's not limited to foods with dairy, someone unable to digest lactose can also get very ill from products containing simply lactose, such as medicines that use straight lactose as a binder, like certain antacids, for example. Wolf thought he had heartburn for a few weeks, and began taking an antacid. The heartburn, continued, and he developed nausea, migraines and sweats. We thought he was coming down with the flu until we checked the inactive ingrediant list and noticed lactose as an inert ingrediant. He quit taking the antacid, and switched to one not containing lactose as a binder, and the symtoms disapated.

Wolf's next to me here telling me to tell you to drink a glass of milk. If you just have an upset stomach, nausea, and possibly a headache, you're lactose sensitive. If you projectile vomit, run a high fever, severe cramping & stomach pains, go to the hospital & get your stomach pumped---You're lactose intolerant.


A little long-winded, but it's better to get some accurate information rather than misled.

 

[Nikijad4210]

8th Continent brand soy milk, the vanilla flavored one is one of the better soy milk brands on the market, in my opinion. It's got the closest taste to milk, not chalky or gritty, and it's very light on the stomach as opposed to milk. Also, you can give goat milk a shot, too. If you've got Albertson's grocery in your area, they carry both 8th Continent & goat milk in the dairy section, somewhere in the vacinity of the Lactaid stuff.

Also, if you're going to cut meat out entirely, get yourself a GOOD multi-vitamin, and don't skip a day, you want a smooth nutritional transition from meat-eater, to vegatarian. Another thing to consider is iron pills. If you've been big on red meat, and eat it a lot, you're going to shock your system with a quick drop in iron levels, risking anemia-type symtoms (tired, weak, lethargic, etc) If you don't want to be popping iron pills, stock up on foods rich in iron like spinach (fuckin' gross shit....)
One more thing----TAKE A CALCIUM SUPPLIMENT. It doesn't matter the reason for dropping the dairy, you need the calcium, take a calcium pill every day. A small warning, though---you may develope kidney stones once or twice a year (Wolf takes calcium suppliments, and passes a kidney stone about once a year)

 

[waydee]

If you like something, but have an issue with the ethics, find an alternative, don't just dump it outright. Find yourself a butcher, and not one in a grocery store, either, a private business butcher. There used to be a really good one in my area that only dealt with meat from small local farms, no mainstraim shit. Too bad the guy retired (we think. either that or he died)



OK, my husband's genuinely lactose intolerant. Seeing as how the world's ripe with misinfo & lack of good info, let ask----Are you diagnosed as lactose intolerant, or are you taking/have taken OTC lactose intolerance medicines? If you're taken the OTC's and they've worked, you're not lactose intolerant, but rather, lactose sensitive. There's a big differance between the 2, LI being a complete inability to break down & digest the lactose in the body as a result of your body not having the necessary protein to break the lactose down, which is poisonous to the body in it's unaltered state---Take in too much lactose if you can't break it down, and you get lactose poisoning, which my husband's had, and it's not pleasant, as it requires a hospital stay for a few days minimum of treatment & monitoring. Lactose poisoning can result in intestinal bleeding, uncontrolable fever, and organ failure. True lactose intolerance is often misdiagnosed as a dairy allergy, which in itself it can be, considering the allergic-like reaction your body tosses forth---sweating, swelling, breathing changes, heart rate changes, etc. WolfSpider carried an epipen for many years for emergency use if he ingested something with too much lactose. Now, he has a tolerance level of amounts he can ingest---His maximum is a teaspoon of milk, or 1/2 of a cheese cube (like Kraft's cubed cheeses) before he starts feeling ill effects.

It's not limited to foods with dairy, someone unable to digest lactose can also get very ill from products containing simply lactose, such as medicines that use straight lactose as a binder, like certain antacids, for example. Wolf thought he had heartburn for a few weeks, and began taking an antacid. The heartburn, continued, and he developed nausea, migraines and sweats. We thought he was coming down with the flu until we checked the inactive ingrediant list and noticed lactose as an inert ingrediant. He quit taking the antacid, and switched to one not containing lactose as a binder, and the symtoms disapated.

Wolf's next to me here telling me to tell you to drink a glass of milk. If you just have an upset stomach, nausea, and possibly a headache, you're lactose sensitive. If you projectile vomit, run a high fever, severe cramping & stomach pains, go to the hospital & get your stomach pumped---You're lactose intolerant.


A little long-winded, but it's better to get some accurate information rather than misled.

Thanks for the info! yes going by that i'd say im lactose sensitive, a glass of milk tends to produce bloating, diarrhea, all round suckyness. I'm yet to go to the doctor but when this started happening it was just a case of cutting things out of my diet until it became clear it was something to do with lactose. Unfortunately in the UK there is no OTC lactase supplements available, I heard they also stopped offering lactaid on prescription so i'm not sure what treatment, if any are available to me.

I'm not and have never been a big red meat eater , in the past i'd eat it maybe once or twice a month at the most. I'd rather be getting the nutrients I need from the veggies if possible but yes, iron is a problem. The soy milk I drink has a lot of extra calcium, two glasses a day is 100% of my rda so i'm fine there but I was wondering what are good iron rich vegetables? are there any?


I do have a source of meat that I trust, theres plenty of local butchers who offer organic free range locally farmed meat but it's just too expensive, I like meat but I don't enjoy it enough to keep buying it when the money saved can be put to much better use. Like I said, I dont believe i'll be missing much since i've been consuming way more veggies than meat for the past 8 months or so.


Thanks for the info!


edit: doh you mentioned spinach, i'm too tired forgive me.

 

[Guest423]

eat real lean meat like venison, elk, and moose....good shit...when u cook it in a pan it doesn't even form grease.

 

[I Used To Grow]

i've been eating veggie burgers and stuff..does that count? lol

you see ...my friend that was in jail stayed with me and he eats that stuff..so I started eating it too...good stuff man for real..I think I'll stick with it

i love getting ripped off of a few bong hits and munching out on a double stacked veggie burger with Jalapenos, mushrooms, pepper jack cheese and bacon...lol

 

[BonsaiGrower]

My Contribution to this thread is this...ha...Heady is a friend and I like him did it for a girl...and funny now when I look back....I was healthier by far...what ya think Heady? remember when?

I was what we called ...watch the spelling ... vegepreferian ... ha

We ate milk and cheese and seafood and lots of soy based fake meats ... lots of delicious filling salads ...and I mean stuff ya salads ...but no poultry, pork or beef. I bet I had more protein in me back then than now...and I drink protein shakes now and I'm back on the meat...Love a rib-eye off the barbecue and have one a week.

My point? ... no meat all together and you will have to supplement to make sure you get the protein...and nuts isn't enough... your body tells ya what you need if you listen...I think it's funny now that I eat meat but I'm not on the vegeprefarian regime that my body craves my protein shake every night at about 9pm.

That help?
BG

 

[mangled]

i love meat
humans are carnivores

 

[Guest]

Never been a true vegetarian but i cut all red meat and pork for a few years back in the day. From about 96 - 2000. I did it because my friend did it (turned vegetarian) and he looked like a whole new person. Lost weight, etc. Also my girl at the time was a vegetarian so it kept me in line. I stuck with it for a while (4 years) but when i got heavier into boxing my trainer told me i needed the protien and iron from red meat so i started eating that again.

Of course at the time i didnt know much about supliments and multivitamins like i do now. Technically there's a meatless substitute for a lot of nutrients and vitamins so you can do it if you want to. Just gotta get used to eating for survival instead of eating for some kind of sensory overload...

Speakin of that...imma go to jack in the box and get an Ultimate bacon cheeseburger. I know I know... But like my mama used to say. "Do as i say, not as i do!"

 

[NOKUY]

If your turned off by meat in the supermarket I can understand that for sure!

If my only choice for meat was there (supermarket) I would be a vegetarian too.

for meat I only eat wild game and wild seafood (no farm fish). No swine, or beef, or chicken.

The quality of the meat that ya eat makes a HUGE difference, and people that have never had a chance to eat wild game may never know the difference.

My GF is "sort of" vegetarian....she eats lots seafood, but no meat unless its my homemade "game jerky".

def. do what ever you like tho...your body will tell ya if its a good thing or not.

 

[Guest]

wild seafood (no farm fish)

im with you there! fish farming is fucking nasty!

 

[penguins]

Don't just do it for the health of yourself, do it for the health of the planet.

One acre of cornfield feeds far more people than one acre of beef-cattle grazing pasture. Each step of the food chain looses energy to conversions and produces waste; a (mostly) vegetarian diet is the only way we can reliably and sustainably support our growing population. When we provide food support to starving nations, there is a reason why it's usually in the form of grain, mainly rice. Rice is amazingly calorie efficient in terms of land use, (non-solar) energy input, and waste production compared to the calorie output of a harvest. Trying to feed the same number of people on beef or even chicken would have a tremendously greater environmental impact. Meat is a luxury food, and I find it dissapointing that so many Americans and Europeans consider it to be the basis of their diet; if it doesn't have meat in it, it's considered a side-dish rather than the center of the meal.

And for anybody that says "Humans are meant to eat meat, yada yada", we are not carnivores, we are omnivores. We are meant to be *able* to eat meat, but even as hunter gatherers the primarily caloric intake came from the gathering, not the hunting. Meat was the luxury item, usually only small catches would result from days of hunting, a bigger catch was lucky; we evolved to hunt and digest the catch simply because food would be so scarce on the savanna at times that any little bit helped. Even the dawn of civilization as we know it was brought about primarily because of agriculture, not domesticated farm animals.



I like the term vegepreferian, i think i'll start using that from now on )
I try to base my diet on a vegetarian one, and tend to not go out of my way to buy it. I'll still eat meat if a friends prepared it or if there's nothing else at a restaurant. Plus I'm a total sucker for sushi....



As far as *your* health goes however, keep in mind a few things:

- stick with whole grains, and don't forget that these should form the base of your pyramid. For whole wheat flour, look for "stone ground wheat" or "100% whole grain" on the label or in the ingredients, many "whole wheat" breads still use mostly white flour (for example, Ms Baird's "honey whole wheat"); try to use brown rice, look for whole wheat pasta too (I actually prefer it, more taste and texture). The whole grain will help make up some of the vitamins and minerals you would be getting from meat otherwise, and wouldn't find in refined grain.

- vitamin B12 is difficult to get through a completely vegan diet. You might want to take supplements if you're going vegan. eggs and dairy will usually provide sufficient amounts. If you're only worried about dairy because of lactose intolerance, you should try yogurt; the culture breaks down most of the lactose and yet still provides B12 and other important nutrients. Cheese is the same, but much higher in "bad" saturated fat.

- Omega-3 fatty acids (and other "good" unsaturated fats) are also insufficient in many vegetarian diets. Cold water fish (maybe once a week or once a month) are the best source, but if you're trying to be a purist, canola oil, flaxseed, and hempseed (hooray for cannabis!) are all good sources.

- you've mentioned being rightfully concerned about iron. It's also sometimes a problem if you're a purist. Tofu, artichokes, and legumes (beans, lentils, etc.) are all good sources. Again, you may want to take supplements


- proteins can be a small problem, just make sure you include beans, legumes, soy, or nuts in your diet and it shouldn't be a problem. "veggie meats" will usually take care of this as well.

- a good, simple technique to help make sure you get a nice range of nutrients is the "color technique". Try to get all 5 colors in your diet (red, orange, yellow, green, blue/purple, (and brownish for all the grains at the base of the pyramid)) as fruits and vegetables with different colors *tend* to have different sets of nutrients.

- Rice&Beans is awesome )
- mushrooms are yummy and can provide alot of that "juicy meat flavor" that you might miss.
- Tofu is your friend, it has iron and protien and good phytochemicals. It's a tad hard to cook (well) with, but you can make it taste like almost anything. I'm still trying to figure out how the Chinese food restaraunts give it that lovely chewey skin and juicy inside texture....

 

[waydee]

Don't just do it for the health of yourself, do it for the health of the planet.

One acre of cornfield feeds far more people than one acre of beef-cattle grazing pasture. Each step of the food chain looses energy to conversions and produces waste; a (mostly) vegetarian diet is the only way we can reliably and sustainably support our growing population. When we provide food support to starving nations, there is a reason why it's usually in the form of grain, mainly rice. Rice is amazingly calorie efficient in terms of land use, (non-solar) energy input, and waste production compared to the calorie output of a harvest. Trying to feed the same number of people on beef or even chicken would have a tremendously greater environmental impact. Meat is a luxury food, and I find it dissapointing that so many Americans and Europeans consider it to be the basis of their diet; if it doesn't have meat in it, it's considered a side-dish rather than the center of the meal.

And for anybody that says "Humans are meant to eat meat, yada yada", we are not carnivores, we are omnivores. We are meant to be *able* to eat meat, but even as hunter gatherers the primarily caloric intake came from the gathering, not the hunting. Meat was the luxury item, usually only small catches would result from days of hunting, a bigger catch was lucky; we evolved to hunt and digest the catch simply because food would be so scarce on the savanna at times that any little bit helped. Even the dawn of civilization as we know it was brought about primarily because of agriculture, not domesticated farm animals.



As far as *your* health goes however, keep in mind a few things:

- stick with whole grains, and don't forget that these should form the base of your pyramid. For whole wheat flour, look for "stone ground" in the ingredients or "100% whole grain" on the label, many "whole wheat" breads still use mostly white flour; try to use brown rice, look for whole wheat pasta too (I actually prefer it, more taste). The whole grain will help make up some of the vitamins and minerals you would be getting from meat otherwise, and wouldn't find in refined grain.

- vitamin B12 is difficult to get through a completely vegan diet. You might want to take supplements. eggs and dairy will usually provide sufficient amounts. If you're only worried about dairy because of lactose intolerance, you should try yogurt; the culture breaks down most of the lactose and yet still provides B12 and other important nutrients. Cheese is the same, but much higher in "bad" saturated fat.

- Omega-3 fatty acids (and other "good" unsaturated fats) are also insufficient in many vegetarian diets. Cold water fish (maybe once a week or once a month) are the best source, but if you're trying to be a purist, canola oil, flaxseed, and hempseed (hooray for cannabis!) are all good sources.

- proteins can be a small problem, just make sure you include beans, legumes, soy, or nuts in your diet and it shouldn't be a problem. "veggie meats" will usually take care of this as well.

- a good, simple technique to help make sure you get a nice range of nutrients is the "color technique". Try to get all 5 colors in your diet (red, orange, yellow, green, blue/purple, (and brownish for all the grains at the base of the pyramid)) as fruits and vegetables with different colors *tend* to have different sets of nutrients.

- Rice&Beans is awesome )
- mushrooms are yummy and can provide alot of that "juicy meat flavor" that you might miss.

Thanks for that, I don't know how the change came about but this time a year ago I thought exactly as you said - a meal had to contain meat otherwise it just didn't feel right. I guess thats how we're raised.

If I can do my little bit to help the planet then its just one more reason to give this a proper shot.

I already buy most things in their wholegrain form, bread, pasta, flour, rice - you're right, the flavour is much better. Cheese seems to be very hit or miss, some days I can eat a little and not suffer any major effects but others even the tiniest amount will set off some real abdominal discomfort, i'm really trying to shy away from it but its a problem since I really like cheese but i'm willing to accept some sacrifices have to be made. I love yoghurt and i'm going to experiment with some different brands to see if theres any I can reliably eat.

I've never been so into fish, there are a few species that I like but they're not really available in the UK (natively) and since i'm not wanting to buy fish transported halfway across the world I don't really think its an option. Shellfish however are a totally different matter, but I feel a bit of a hypocrite excluding some meat and not others. I think i'll get some supplements, how does one go about preparing seeds though? like raw hempseed/flaxseed.

I love beans, peas, pistachios, lentils, all that sort of thing so I think i'm good for protein and you're right about mushrooms, I cant get enough of the things!



I had a dinner of roasted veggies and garlic bread last night and it was delicious, as long as I can adjust my recipes (and learn some new ones) I think i'll get along just fine. I'm eating out with my parents tonight as well since they're in town, for some weird reason i'm dreading mentioning this to my dad since he's a bit of a big meat eating sort of guy... I don't know, theres no reason to worry but I know he'll have his own (probably private) opinion of me