poking smot
Member
So what. so is Prop 19. Do you really think the Fed will be cool with it? I don't think so.
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So what. so is Prop 19. Do you really think the Fed will be cool with it? I don't think so.
poking smot
Member
But anyway, I just like to debate points with people so i hope no one thinks im a real bad guy or anything. I'm just like everyone else on here looking for the answer to the big riddle myself. However the outcome it will change things for sure, and i hope for the best. Oh and much respect to the people fighting for and against this prop because thats what this site is for. Stay true!
No Prop 19 is no 'pipe dream'......it is very real and all Californian's of voting age can vote on it this coming November.....
Whether the Fed's are 'cool' with it or not is not the issue......it is quite obvious that the Fed's were not 'cool' with Prop 215 when it came to be voted upon or since......
poking smot
Member
Sure it is. Hasn't happened yet, so it's a dream. I wouldn't be surprised if lots of people are too stoned to even make it to the polls let alone care to vote. And people who are for the prop that have felonies for pot or other reasons can't even vote. Until it passes, I see it as a pipe dream. And i hope that pipe has blue dream in it.
Anyway i see your point Gypsy, and all the rest of you guys too, but i just wish people wouldn't always run to government for the answers.
Their hands are in the cookie jar already in hidden in back end costs that include confiscation, jail, legal fees, fines and attachments of post incarceration earnings.
I'd rather pay the "tax" front loaded through a retail storefront.
A pipe dream is a fantastic hope or plan that is generally regarded as being nearly impossible to achieve.
Is Prop 19 a pipe dream? Not by a long shot.
Is full legalization with no regulations or controls whatsoever a pipe dream? Definitely.
Nobody is running to the government for the answers, and I have no idea where you got that idea from.
Well....let it be on your conscience that if you vote 'No' on Prop 19.....and it fails....
When you read or hear in the media about some grower or cannabis user getting busted, fined, jailed.....or bothered in any way by the powers that be for a 25 sq/ft garden or less......when you hear of anyone getting a ticket for carrying an ounce or less.......when you hear of LEO gaining entry into someone's private property due to 'probable cause' for smelling cannabis.......remember....it could be you or a loved one.....
....so think about it......and again, I urge all Californians to vote 'Yes' on Proposition 19.....your 'Yes' vote has ramifications outside of California for all cannabis lovers.....
When you read or hear in the media about some grower or cannabis user getting busted, fined, jailed.....or bothered in any way by the powers that be for a 25 sq/ft garden or less......when you hear of anyone getting a ticket for carrying an ounce or less.......when you hear of LEO gaining entry into someone's private property due to 'probable cause' for smelling cannabis.......remember....it could be you or a loved one.....
....so think about it......and again, I urge all Californians to vote 'Yes' on Proposition 19.....your 'Yes' vote has ramifications outside of California for all cannabis lovers.....
I too wish for utopia, but you are incorrect. The FDA does NOT deal in herbs, supplements, and the like.
In point of fact the FDA has not been authorized to deal with tobacco or nicotine.
Just because the US government runs over peoples rights and liberties does not mean they are morally correct to do so.
This legislation does nothing to promote this community, as many have pointed out it will not cultivate cultivators or breed breeders it will merely establishes government control over an area of our lives that need NO government interference.
Sanctioning minor or major violations of our rights by non growers and non smokers is not prudent.
Patrick Henry said "Give me liberty or give me death." He did not advocate a lesser path such as "Separate But Equal" because compromise on fundamental values is incompatible with living a moral existence.
This proposal is evil, maybe less evil than the current scheme however it does NOT deserve our sanction.
I like you am not a registered voter of CA so I will hold my thoughts and opinions and the Californians will decide.
I too have lived in Asia for many years (Indonesia, Lao, Thailand, Myanmar, Cambodia) and this is a very important point. There is far more riding on Prop 19 being passed then just a localized and contained experience. The outcomes to legalization in the US will have significant ramifications in poor developing nations and hopefully improve their political views on illicit drugs which have been perverted by the US led war on drugs and funding with provisos by the UN and US. You need to remember also that the US policy has been responsible for the deaths of countless people in other countries. Prop 19 is an important beginning in moving away from prohibition by legalizing (not decriminalizing or taking a tolerant view as is/was the Dutch experience) and this stands to undermine and question drug laws in other States of the US. It will be somewhat hard for the US to then influence UN drug policy towards hard line prohibition when the US itself has adopted another model and is leading the way out . I keep seeing people attacking IC Mag for making a stand here and I find this disgusting. If as you say you are an American than surely you understand the principles that underpin democracy and the right to free speech. Or do you believe that it is only Americans who should have these rights? IC Mag is a forum for growers and smokers from around the world and this is a global issue that affects all growers and smokers from around the world - that simple.
I too wish for utopia, but you are incorrect. The FDA does NOT deal in herbs, supplements, and the like.
In point of fact the FDA has not been authorized to deal with tobacco or nicotine.
Just because the US government runs over peoples rights and liberties does not mean they are morally correct to do so.
This legislation does nothing to promote this community, as many have pointed out it will not cultivate cultivators or breed breeders it will merely establishes government control over an area of our lives that need NO government interference.
Sanctioning minor or major violations of our rights by non growers and non smokers is not prudent.
Patrick Henry said "Give me liberty or give me death." He did not advocate a lesser path such as "Separate But Equal" because compromise on fundamental values is incompatible with living a moral existence.
This proposal is evil, maybe less evil than the current scheme however it does NOT deserve our sanction.
I like you am not a registered voter of CA so I will hold my thoughts and opinions and the Californians will decide.
Patrick Henry got death (he's dead) and speaking for my own experiences in the US if you think you have liberty you're kidding yourself.
<!-- NECESSARY TO CONTROL LAYOUT WHEN STYLES ARE DEACTIVATED --> <!-- BEGIN MAIN BODY --> "In an historic victory for America's children and health, Congress and President Obama in June 2009 gave the U.S. Food and Drug Administration the authority to regulate the manufacturing, marketing and sale of tobacco products. This new law ended the special protection from regulation that the tobacco industry enjoyed for decades and represents a milestone in protecting Americans from the devastating health consequences of tobacco use." http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/reports/fda/
In a 2sq ft space and only 28'' of height with a 150w HPS I can easily produce 60g of medicine per month. Veg, mother, clones, in another 1sq ft space so 3sq ft total.
25/3=8.33 and 8.33x60=500g; One could have three layers with 8' ceilings so an array of 150w HPS micro chambers could produce over 3 pounds per month.
How you've confused grams per month with pounds per month is baffling.
A couple of questions:
1) have you ever been to prison? I suspect not or you wouldn't find the prospect of prison exciting. Prison time is the most boring time you will ever experience in your life (unless you're getting shanked, beaten and/or raped and then I guess you could describe it as exciting). You're treated like a dog and are a ghost of the civil dead. Hey, in the US an individual with a felon conviction can't even vote.
2) What would you call full legalization? Because with legalization comes taxation, regulation and control. That's what legalization is all about. Bringing it out from a black market underground economy into a legitimized and taxed and controlled system. Keep fighting for full legalization after Prop 19 passes. Saying no now may be saying no to the only opportunity afforded to you in your lifetime.
3) "We should be fighting for full on legalization with no limits or boundries." What would you then define as "full legalization". An ideal anarchist situation where the state allows you to carte blanche make money, sell to kids, not pay a cent in taxes for a grossly overpriced product - just wondering because your argument seems greatly confused about what legalization is.
bs0
Active member
What is pretty obvious as you go through this thread is that the biggest detractors are all commercial growers themselves. Someone who has 20 10' plants in their back yard shoukd really have the wherewithal to save up the 200k for the new growing license. You can NOT assume an anti-commercialization with any amount of credibility with that standpoint. 20 big plants like that... gotta be better than 30 #s there. If you are supplying @ $20 a sack (what can be assumed from your "compassionate" rates) that 2 month harvest would net you 30*$3.2k = $90k 6 times a year... anyone housing $300k a year is 100% commercial. I wish my back yard could be a goldmine too.
MoldyFrogToe
Member
greed, greed, greed, and misinformation, that's all that can really stop this within the demographics of MJ users.
whoever said prop 19 has no chance, yeah, they said that about 215 and look what happened. noobs.
whoever said prop 19 has no chance, yeah, they said that about 215 and look what happened. noobs.
T
THE PABLOS
Not just our government....all government correct? We are well aware the US government is more or less hated around the world....not to be trusted like all governments.
The real world is what you create it to be. Concession and regulation may be a fact of life in our world...but that's only because we've allowed it to be.
When the servant (government) becomes your master....then yup...your dreams of Utopia seem unrealistic. Bending over to government gives it the sense that everything is ok.....and it will continue on doing exactly what it's doing now.
The US government is about weapon deals and drug deals.....that is why we war. There is shit loads of $ in it. As it does not represent my belief system.....I will aid it along as little as possible.
T
THE PABLOS
exactly....
You've just argued for legalization. So I take it you're voting yes to Prop 19.
MoldyFrogToe
Member
you guys are such extremist nutballs!
go fight your generic unrealistic war on taxation on your own time, the rest of the world understands that things sold on the market are always taxed and regulated.
wtf is with this notion that MJ will be the posterchild issue for your extremist views on taxes, the point of this bill is more than taxing and regulating, dont like it, grow your own stuff in your room at home and let the rest of the general population use weed without getting their balls busted. it's inevitable if we want any form of legalization.
mooching off the med system is stupid. end it.
go fight your generic unrealistic war on taxation on your own time, the rest of the world understands that things sold on the market are always taxed and regulated.
wtf is with this notion that MJ will be the posterchild issue for your extremist views on taxes, the point of this bill is more than taxing and regulating, dont like it, grow your own stuff in your room at home and let the rest of the general population use weed without getting their balls busted. it's inevitable if we want any form of legalization.
mooching off the med system is stupid. end it.
hotmellons
Member
room size limit argument not good. now commercial grower not legal in any size room but he do not want it legal. it like commercial grower just want to keep price high for profit and look for anything wrong with law to make fake argument.
It's pretty obvious when someone says they are "protected" by 215 yet are against this bill that they are one of the "parasites" ripping people with the 400 dollar ounces. It's funny and sad at the same time. And exactly the reason why the Govt will get involved in this one way or another.
215 already protects these people, but they don't care about people going to jail, losing their jobs, families and the such as long as they can keep selling them 60 dollar 1/8ths to people. It's sad. But at least we know who these people are.
What they don't understand is even if this Bill fails, which I don't think it will, the Gov't in Cali is going to get involved even if it means revisiting 215. The word is to widespread regarding these selfish individuals feeding off of people. And they are going to stop it one way or another.
So for those of you already protected by 215, yet fighting hard against this Bill because it will put an end to your inflated prices, enjoy it while you can. Because there's a new day dawning and I feel that the people that want to enjoy smoking this plant legally will far outnumber the people that are ripping people off....
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