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IBL vigor
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troutman
Seed Whore
It helps to make a few lines of IBL's of the same strain using different parents.
Once inbreeding depression increases too much and causes loss of vigor it's
time to cross the lines together to attempt to restore the vigor. It's what real
breeders do in the Agricultural World.
It also helps to keep seeds from each generation should you need to go back in time.
Once inbreeding depression increases too much and causes loss of vigor it's
time to cross the lines together to attempt to restore the vigor. It's what real
breeders do in the Agricultural World.
It also helps to keep seeds from each generation should you need to go back in time.
Deviantmind
New member
The traditnal way would be to split the line early usually at f2 then select an A and a B line then inbreed both lines bout 7 generations selecting toward similar traits then crossing the final lines together. It won't be like heterosis (true f1 vigor) but it won't be depressed.
Maple_Flail
Well-known member
wouldn't a back cross to an earlier generation if available also do this, like F3 or later sorta deal? as isn't IBL considered after F7 or F8?
Maple_Flail
Well-known member
well, its kinda the basics of the filial system. F1 is a mix of both P1s normally with phenos of each parent and a couple blends of both parents.
F2 is where the recessives become dominant but tend to hide in outcrosses and some in-crosses
F3 is the start of stabilization starts and you've tapered off unwanted genes with the generations, should still have a fair amount of vigor (DJ short seems to be happy with F5 vigor for most of his work )
and beyond just stabilizes and trims the fat so to speak into IBL.
the choice is really in the hands of the chucker so to speak.. If you were ok with a bit of back pedaling you could go straight back to F1 with the cross back, but at this point you are potentially reintroducing unwanted genes that you've already selected against.
This is why i suggest F3 or later. The line is worked a little you are not getting the whole half shebang of stuff you've selected against. you will get some but not as much with later generation.. the trade of would be the farther the generation you use the less potential vigor there is to be regained.
yes a Bx would require to grow out and do selection and maybe a self cross or two to get back to consistency, I am not exactly sure someone more experienced than me should answer this one for a closer filial expectation out of that. however if you want to keep it IBL and IN cross is your only option.
the parallel line thing Troutman mentioned is a great idea but if you don't' already have it running its not exactly feasible. however this would give you time to rejuvenate your ibl breeding pairs.
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Maple_Flail
Well-known member
no problem mate
Maple_Flail
Well-known member
several depending on needs, Most of my preferences aren't exactly market trendy
Exotic genetic (this dudes hybrids are awesome, great evening smoke), Rare Dankness, the two or three breeders that were reproducing Sub cools stuff before his passing their names escape me at the moment, Ace Seeds (have a massive need for NLD/sativa/have varieties), Bodhi's gear whatever he decides to call his brand that day, JJ/topdawg, snow high... man the list goes on.. we are not exactly short of decent breeders that use great genetics
Deviantmind
New member
I believe backcrossing to another generation is what some people call an incross or IX. I'm not sure that would work quite the same way as breeding to side by side lines. if your goal is to preserve the genetics I suppose it would work. But it could possibly undo a bit of the homogeny. Preserving the gene pool would be better done by open pollinationation anyway. I'm not sure though because no one to my knowledge has incrossed a "ibl" to an earlier generation.
Deviantmind
New member
Hummmm
I like top dawg but not his newer stuff, Bodhi, Freeborn sections, Karma, Nirvana, TGA, Ringo, tom hill, Jordan of the islands, relic/dynasty, brothers grimm, rare dankness, dj short, Ace seeds ect. Theres some really good stuff floating around still, equal amount of junk too.
Also the only one still holding on to stock they were making for sub is norstar. It's on genetic supply in the overstock section if you want some!
Deviantmind
New member
Had alot of experience growing commercialy ethos. He had a clone distributor here in colorado so I've ran quite a few strains from him. Some were exceptional like the durban kush and snowball others were not so great lilac diesel was average jack terps and the lemon og haze shot herms put the top cola week 5. Would also catch early nanners on the crescendo on occasion. As for ag I bought 20 seeds of that skunk #1 and it was in my opinion trash, lanky tired genetics. I've grown super skunk, UK cheese and some cheese s1's and they were all better unfortunately .
Maple_Flail
Well-known member
Havn't run any of Ethos gear yet but i'm constantly eye balling the Lilac diesel BX and his version of Super lemon haze interest me, don't think i've heard/seen anything from AG.
Maple_Flail
Well-known member
last i heard he retired? out of the game. Heard the name buzz around a bit but never ran his gear
There are popular assumptions that need clarification.
Recessive traits appear at F2: this would require one of the parents to have no recessive genes at all. Recessive traits can appear at F1 stage just as easily as F2. No matter how many generations are bred, there will still be some around. The best common example of this I can give is red hair in people.
Inbreeding depression: is purely the result of poor breeding. Ibl's don't need to lose vigour. If they do, the wrong selections were made.
Backcrossing: is a breeding tool, not a rescue root after poor breeding.
MtDNA is the route to vigour. This needs to be selected for, understood how it is passed, and only sacrificed for quality at the correct points in the breeding program.
There is a final generation that should be used, the other generations are stepping stones, not end results in their own right. This end generation can be remade endlessly by keeping it's parents, but this is mainly for clone and P1 selections by end users.
Breeding isn't for everyone. Unless you want a hobby that you'll obsess over for decades, just so you can have a few unique smokes, fine tuned to your own taste, it's better to find clones from breeders seeds.
Not everyone who sells seeds, are breeders. Most breeders don't sell seeds.
Recessive traits appear at F2: this would require one of the parents to have no recessive genes at all. Recessive traits can appear at F1 stage just as easily as F2. No matter how many generations are bred, there will still be some around. The best common example of this I can give is red hair in people.
Inbreeding depression: is purely the result of poor breeding. Ibl's don't need to lose vigour. If they do, the wrong selections were made.
Backcrossing: is a breeding tool, not a rescue root after poor breeding.
MtDNA is the route to vigour. This needs to be selected for, understood how it is passed, and only sacrificed for quality at the correct points in the breeding program.
There is a final generation that should be used, the other generations are stepping stones, not end results in their own right. This end generation can be remade endlessly by keeping it's parents, but this is mainly for clone and P1 selections by end users.
Breeding isn't for everyone. Unless you want a hobby that you'll obsess over for decades, just so you can have a few unique smokes, fine tuned to your own taste, it's better to find clones from breeders seeds.
Not everyone who sells seeds, are breeders. Most breeders don't sell seeds.
