I lack Carpenter Skills, trying to frame a 7x7 room inside a finished basement..?

[Merfolk]

Hey guys, ive got a huge basement and im working on, and i have a BASIC idea of my 7x7x6 1/2 (h) room, i would only need to build 3 walls, 4th ill use the basment wall.



What im wondering is, when i nail the 2x4s to the ceiling of the basement, i was thinking of wedging the rest of the boards in to make it sturdy, and place studs every 16" ( so only 2-3 studs )

But to me, that might be abit flimsy and not sturdy, What about using L brackets and screws? Basically looking for someone with abit more knowledge then myself that could help out, i got the next 5 days off, and a few hundred to make it happen..


Thanks!

 

[RedReign]

Screw plywood to the joists to make your ceiling, if necessary. It's easiest to build each wall on the ground and tilt it into place. If you are new to carpentry, screw the top of your wall to your plywood ceiling, set the bottom of the wall below it, use angle brackets to connect the vertical studs to the top and bottoms of your wall. Space the studs every 2'. The wall won't be bearing a load, so there is no need to go with 16" centers. If you use solid walls, 4' centers will be fine.

HD, Lowes, etc. have the right angle brackets near the lumber.

Here is a pic of a basic 4'x8' veg cabinet I just built. I used 2x3's and 4' centers and it is very strong and stable. I used 4'x8' sheets, 5/8" melamine in my case, for my walls/ceiling/doors. Something like this is quick to build, quick to tear down, and doesn't cost much.

 

[HEADDS]

forget the 2x4's on the celiing..plywood or sheetrock the celiing right to the joists, from there screw 2x4's to make the outer perimeter, run 2x4's down to the ground, sheetrock, plywood the outside, caulk it, frame a door..whatever.

 

[NiceShoes]

You don't need a couple hundred Bro unless you are going to do any type of finish work on it.

Basically...I would not wedge anything... EVER. Your measurements should be as close to perfect. There is no room or need for wedging... The floor above the basement may become slanted, it really only takes an 1/8" to create a huge problem, and 1/16" (what you would get from a good wedge) may not be visible to the eye but can make boards creek, warp siding or other finish work, bow or crack walls.... It's best to work within your limitation and that means no forcing anything... I recommend this:

First decide if you want to stick build (one piece of lumber at a time), or frame the entire wall and then lift it up and bam, you have your framed/un-finished wall. It needs to be secured.... I like to do a combination of both.

More in-depth look at the difference;

Sick building your project is essentially one framing member at a time. This may prove to be more difficult but more necessary if you are working around things like ceiling drywall and yadda...

If your basement does not have a finished ceiling (you can see the floor joists when looking up) raising you wall may be the best option.

Either way, the process to explain how you will build/raise the walls is the same. It all basically involves understanding the anatomy of an interior wall. I made this real fast so you can see...

This would be your standard 8' wall...





So as you see your two plates (top and bottom) are your horizontal members that will support and hold your studs together. If you decide to raise your wall, you will nail your studs to the top plate thru the top of the plate. However, if you frame your wall the "stick built" method you will secure your 2x4 studs via the "toe nail" method. Angle them thru the side of the stud up (or down depending if you are fixing to your top or bottom plate) into the plate. Easier done than said [NOTEredrill w/ smaller diameter bit at an angle to keep from cracking/splintering wood]

Also remember when measuring, the true height of a 2x4 is 1 1/2". Also the true width is 3 1/2"

Keep this into account when measuring, you will want to remove 3" inches from the height. Otherwise your boards will not fit, obviously.

OK, enough rambling...

Lets pretend I am building a wall in my basement, to keep is simple, my wall is 8'...

First I am going to measure/cut my 2x4 down to 8' (unless I purchased the 8' 2x4) in which I will measure for accuracy because it matters. Measure that thing several times... don't waist wood on a shitty cut.... at least if you mess up you can make a stud out of it.

Because God blessed me with an 8' ceiling I am going to cut myself 8 wall studs that measure 93" each (8' -3").

I am going to NAIL them with probably 10D framing nails (2 per studxplate contact).

Measure your top plate and make a mark for every 16", first stud gets to get put on flush with the end of the plate. Then center every stud to your 16" mark and nail that sucker on.

Bang bang bang.

Now our wall is almost complete. I put two studs and the end of the top plate to form the width of a 2x4, this will help frame the next wall and is the common way to frame corners.

Now, lets take our 8ft sole( or bottom ) plate 2x4, stick it on the floor (make sure there is nothing underneath, this means no tile, no carpet, yadda).

With our marked *measured to 16" like we did with the top plate* sole plate lying flat (it better be flat or your a dumbass for buying warped stud boards and they are no good for this project... save them for your tree house, kid)... we will take our hammer drill or a high speed drill with a masonry bit and drill thru our sole plate into the concrete.... Then you will take a sinker bolts or anchor bolts and secure it in place.

With a friend or two lift the wall up onto the sole plate and under the floor joists. Get out your level and make sure everything is vertical!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For Christs sake, do not frame a wall that is not level!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now your going to nail your top plate to the floor joists, and toe nail your studs to the sole plate.

Proceed to wall number 2, don't forget to frame in your door.... I can help you there too if you want....

But there ya go...


Oh yeah, measure... measure... measure and make sure you map out everything... where on your floor is your bottom plate going to lay? Mark this down and make sure it's square or perpendicular to the walls.... I also recommended you gets some 2x2 and finish the concrete walls... do it the exact same way as the walls I just built) except use liquid nails to secure to the concrete but you still want to make sure it's strong.... You will wish you did all of this later...

NiceShoes

 

[yamaha_1fan]

Thats a good post by Nice Shoes.

Remember when you build the whole wall on the floor, and you go to raise it, it wont go up all the way. you will need to raise it between the floor joists were there is more room, then when its up, move it under the joist (depending on the direction of wall/joists). Hope I explained that correctly. An 8 foot wall that is 3.5 inches wide gets taller than 8 feet when you raise it and will get stuck at the very top.


EDIT: I reread and the way NiceShoes explained it, the getting stuck issue wont happen. Probably why he explained it that way.

Merfolk, most of us didnt go to carpentry school. We learned most of what we know through hands on. Just do it, you'll be fine. Home Depot also has some books but building a wall is pretty basic.


NS, so you double stud all the corners when connecting walls?

COuple more questions, dont mean to hijack but I am going to anyway

How do you frame doors? I have built several walls but always struggled hanging the door. Do you double stud around the whole door? I always frame it to the rough dimensions detailed on the box.

Second, on a larger room, maybe 20x20, what is the best ceiling option? AM I going to have run 2x6'/8's to span that far? I want to avoid any poles in the room? The only weight would be drywall and hoods.
And yeah, dont wedge anything

 

[Merfolk]

Wow nice info in here, thanks alot, i guess i should have perhaps explained my situation abit better, im in a rental, so i cant make anything permanent, and easy to knock down with a hammer if need to be...


infact ill only have to make 2 walls, ill be using the coner of the basement, damn icmag is giving me problems tonight uploading pictures, ill dink with it some more...


Last day of work tomarrow, and im on this project this weekend while i have so much free time...

Will get some screenies up asap..and looks like i need to hit the home depot.

 

[Merfolk]

And no i dont see the joist, there is a very thin layer of ceiling . Promise i try to get pics up, thanks again for the help.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

maybe some type of tent framed with 2x2's or pvc pipe?

 

[killabrown420]

I just recently built a wall for the first time just as NiceShoes described. 16" on center except for the entrance.




With a table saw and nailgun it took an hour or so to finish

 

[PharmaCan]

Nice shoes - Great post!

Yamaha - Re. the door framing: first you frame the hole 3" - 3.5" wider than your desired rough opening. Then you cut two 2x4's approx. 79.5", nail them to the inside of the studs then set a header on top of the 2x4's and nail in place. Mount your pre-hung door in the hole using shims to make sure everything is plumb.

Once your hole is framed, you need to cut the sole plate out of your hole before proceeding to hang the door.

PC

 

[PharmaCan]

Merfolk - get yourself some steel studs. The plates attach top and bottom with drywall screws (means easy to remove/repair when time comes) and the studs are installed with little screws, like putting together an erector set. You can even buy a door that just snaps into your opening. No carpentry skills needed. Tools - tinsnips, drill/driver, level, tape measure. If you decide to drywall, you'll also need a utility knife and a straight edge.

Steel studs are way easier to work with than wood and they are very forgiving. If you fuck up with steel, all you have to do is remove a small screw to fix your f/u. Taking wood apart can be quite difficult.

PC

 

[NiceShoes]

Yamaha, I was enjoying a turkey bro.... :friends: back tho. I figured I could either make a million pics to explain how, or do a search. I found this man, exactly how it should be done, ha ha
How to Frame a Door
And if I understand your ceiling question;

If the width of your room is 8' or less than you should have no need for a support.

I would go with the 2x6, run them every 16" like normal. Just pick out the best boards, put some cross members in there and you are good to go.

You could probably even get some of the medal brackets and make them go up fast and easy....

I don't know if I understand it fully though.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

Yamaha, I was enjoying a turkey bro.... :friends: back tho. I figured I could either make a million pics to explain how, or do a search. I found this man, exactly how it should be done, ha ha
How to Frame a Door
And if I understand your ceiling question;

If the width of your room is 8' or less than you should have no need for a support.

I would go with the 2x6, run them every 16" like normal. Just pick out the best boards, put some cross members in there and you are good to go.

You could probably even get some of the medal brackets and make them go up fast and easy....

I don't know if I understand it fully though.

As far as the new room goes its pretty simple. I plan on building multiple rooms, the biggest room is something like 18'x20' I believe. 6 4x8 tables per room plus walking room. Yes big rooms in a big space. An 18x20 span seems large. I know they dont make 2x4's 20 feet long. I dont know if they make 2x6's that long either. Obviously I dont want any support poles so I can move tables around etc.

 

[DEDHEDFRED]

Hey Yamaha.....The only way for ceiling joists in a room that size is to put what`s called a girder/beam in the middle of the room that will span the 20' distance and then you can run 10' 2 x 6`s perpendicular into that girder and sitting on the wall......

Will you have enough room above the walls to do that in an open area ?......

You still haveta put a girder/beam in the middle for ceiling joists to run into but it can be double 2 x 6`s staggered with pipe columns under the breaks.......

I build shit for a living Bro and the last time I spanned something like 20' I hadta use 22' 2 x 12`s with 1/4" steel plate drilled and bolted to accomodate the distance to open up the room.......

I`d work around the columns rather than spend that kinda cash opening up the room but I`m a cheap bastard.......

What`s the problem with doors Yamaha......In conventional framing there`s always a header above doors and that`s where double studs come into play as well as having something to nail the door trim into.......

Hope that helps.....Peace........DHF........ .......

 

[Shcrews]

awesome thread, you guys are very knowledgeable

should definitely be added to DIY sticky, if not already

 

[Guest 18340]

What do i do if the floor isnt completely level?

 

[yamaha_1fan]

Hey Yamaha.....The only way for ceiling joists in a room that size is to put what`s called a girder/beam in the middle of the room that will span the 20' distance and then you can run 10' 2 x 6`s perpendicular into that girder and sitting on the wall......

Will you have enough room above the walls to do that in an open area ?......

You still haveta put a girder/beam in the middle for ceiling joists to run into but it can be double 2 x 6`s staggered with pipe columns under the breaks.......

I build shit for a living Bro and the last time I spanned something like 20' I hadta use 22' 2 x 12`s with 1/4" steel plate drilled and bolted to accomodate the distance to open up the room.......

I`d work around the columns rather than spend that kinda cash opening up the room but I`m a cheap bastard.......

What`s the problem with doors Yamaha......In conventional framing there`s always a header above doors and that`s where double studs come into play as well as having something to nail the door trim into.......

Hope that helps.....Peace........DHF........ .......

Yeah, there will be plenty of space height wise.

I prefer to keep the room open for a few reasons. I dont want any poles blocking light. I plan to push the tables together during flowering for one large canopy. then pull them apart for maint/harvest. I also want to be able to pull the tables out of the room with plants on it. Thats an emergency back up plan. I figure a big enough or multiple trucks, we can move all the plants out in 1-2 hours by disconnecting irrigation and rolling the tables out.

How much does a 22' 2x12 cost?


As far as doors go, I have hung a few. In an existing house, where I am just replacing the pre-hung door, it goes smoothly. In cases where I built the wall, it is a PITA. The door on my current room is tweaked alittle. It doesnt sit flush agaist the wall and when the door closes, it doesnt make contact all the way around. Trust me, I shimmed, adjusted, etc.

I think the problems is I may not have leveled the wall perfectly. But a bigger reason I think is I frame the doorway with one 2x4 all the around, not doubling up. So when I go to shim and nail, everything moves. I will double up next time.


Is it possible to get prehung double interior doors that will open 54" or more? Basically wide enough to roll a 4x8 table through? (considering a 4 foot table has wider exterior dimensions)

 

[PharmaCan]

Looks like this thread has been totally jacked...

Yamaha, lumber is around $225/mbf so a 22' - 2x12 should cost about $10. Your problems with the door sound like the plane of the door stop is not parallel with the plane of the hinges/door. It sounds like the single member framing around the door is just one of your problems. When you build a wall, you need to take the time to make sure everything is level, plumb and square.

What do i do if the floor isnt completely level?

What do you do about what?????

PC

 

[yamaha_1fan]

Looks like this thread has been totally jacked...

Yamaha, lumber is around $225/mbf so a 22' - 2x12 should cost about $10. Your problems with the door sound like the plane of the door stop is not parallel with the plane of the hinges/door. It sounds like the single member framing around the door is just one of your problems. When you build a wall, you need to take the time to make sure everything is level, plumb and square.



What do you do about what?????

PC

thats it for a 22 foot 2x12? I thought it was going to be really expensive.

Would all the joists sit on top of the outside walls? That does seem easier and after I think about it, much stronger than hanging from the side of the wall.


I tried making the wall level and plumb but you know how it goes.

Thanks PC, DHF, NiceShoes

 

[DEDHEDFRED]

22'-2 x 12`s are more like $60 bucks a piece if not more depending on where you live.......I live where they make em........

Shit`s not cheap out west cuz Southern yellow pine`s the strongest most structural wood for building there is without using engineered laminated beams that cost hundreds of dollars each........

Not sure where your info comes from Pharma but I`d buy as many $10 22'-2 x 12`s as you can supply...........No offense.....

But to span 20' without a 1/4" steel "flitch plate" would worry me about hanging all my shit on the ceiling joists.......

Maybe 3-2 x 12`s x 20'7" nailed/screwed together would support all the lights and ductwork without the steel plate........Maybe.......

It`s doable but the columns it would take to support the beam for the ceiling joists are easily avoided in times of evac measures and would cost a lot less.....That`s all I was tryin ta do was save yas some cash......

Twin 2' 8" doors open up to 64" in the clear so you`d be good ta go on moving the tables out on wheels........

Buy salvage exterior doors so weatherstripping will already be installed for sealing the room and make sure there`s no center divider .......

Anyways.......Hope that helps.......

Peace.......DHF........ .........