I kinda have a riddle over here

[Vancho]

You can see one healthy plant in the second pic compared to the wilted one. The affected plant is White Fire Cookies and the unnafected is Strawberry haze. I have two white fire and both are like this.

Before thinking overwatering, I completely discarded that idea.

All the plants have dried for a few days now to discard that. Pot mix is soilless mix (peat moss/perlite 70/30+macro-micro elements 1.0 EC) and now is as dry as it can be, completely weightless. The wi fi is turgid so its not under-watering either.

Roots are perfectly fine, I checked and they are healthy white, with lots of hairs. And, since its soilless mix, kinda sterile, I don't think its root rot.

Is the second time this run I see this happening to the wi-fi plants.
My log says this
VPD optimal
300-500 umol PPFD
01/08/2023--- Transplanted from 2 to 7L, fully tap-watered to field capacity
03/08/2023--- Wilted plants (all of them in general, most affected white fire)
07/08/2023--- mineral fertiliser (veg stage) 1.6 EC. Runoff 1.5-1.7, pH 5.5
09/08/2023--- plants starts to recover
11/08/2023--- plants fully recovered
14/08/2023--- wi-fi with curled leaves again
16/08/2023--- pots weightless, watered with tap water. Runoff EC 1.15-1.4, pH 5.7

Any ideas? thanks in advance

 

[Creeperpark]

Hello Van, it looks like you are allowing the pH to drop below the normal range. When using a peat substrate, the best pH is 6.2 to 6.5 to keep the acid burn limited. Keep the intake pH at 6.2 from the beginning to the end.

 

[Top buzzer]

Yeah ph between 5.8 and 6.2 and
add abit of calmag into your feed

 

[Ca++]

Were you feeding before 1/8/23 and did you feed on that date?
Is the wilting, different to the curling? (I guess so, but have to ask)


It's possible, that when potting up from a fed substrate, the wilt is caused by different salt levels at the root. The roots from a salty pot, get put in a less salty pot, and the salt is then higher in the root, than surrounding it. This draws in excess water.
That event seems to of effected all plants, and could be isolated from the curling.

It seems we then feed and recover in 4 days, but 3 days later they are curled. 2 days more, they are dry. That is 9 days though.

Talk of mixing soil is always difficult to comprehend. The ec1 is interesting. Many of these soil building potions are most stuff, except NPK. That most stuff, tends to be more available at low pH. I can see some of the more unusual signs, like the stripes that are red. Often associated with pH problems. I run peat at 5.8 as canna do, which makes sense with chemical feeds that may be balanced for that. I would check your meters calibrated properly. Using solution that nobody else has been messing about with. Then as suggested already, think about running a bit higher.

I think I'm clutching at straws here, and missing something major. I have seen similar from over feeding at bad pH. While poor water availability can curl the top leaves, for reasons like mold in the stems or sudden high blue light.

I would probably hit one with flower food. Though that's more of a hunch than fact based.
What lighting is there?

 

[Ca++]

Yeah ph between 5.8 and 6.2 and
add abit of calmag into your feed

Are you thinking about the Mg?

The stems and trunk here are red and striped, and almost bark like. Elongation stopped. I thought some P and higher pH might make them snap out of it quicker.

 

[Vancho]

Hello Van, it looks like you are allowing the pH to drop below the normal range. When using a peat substrate, the best pH is 6.2 to 6.5 to keep the acid burn limited. Keep the intake pH at 6.2 from the beginning to the end.

Hi! how can I buffer the pH to 6.0 for example? adding cal mag is more long term solution, and I cannot mix it into the soilless mix since the root system is completely developed.

It always happens when I add this fertilizer (https://shop.greenhousefeeding.com/grow-bag.html) while growing, that even with the nute solution (adding chelated calcium) pH around 7.0, the runoff ends with 5.5. The soilless mix buffers tap water to 6.0.

The flowering fertilizers often buffers at 6.0, but not these ones

 

[Vancho]

It's possible, that when potting up from a fed substrate, the wilt is caused by different salt levels at the root. The roots from a salty pot, get put in a less salty pot, and the salt is then higher in the root, than surrounding it. This draws in excess water.
That event seems to of effected all plants, and could be isolated from the curling.

Wow that makes sense! so these cuttings were almost 2 month old, from an old batch that I managed to keep alive using the same brand of growth fertilizer.
I guess the mix was already around 2.0, fully watered when transplanted. And then repotted to 7L of soilless with 1.0 EC of mostly micro nutes.

I guess this pulls out water from the surrounding mix to the center cake, fully rooted and causing the over watering symptoms.

I say curling when I say wilted, but I guess is not the same, sorry english is not my first language. Plants are not wilted, they only have curled leaves

So i'm trying to guess what happened on 14/08, two days ago, since none of this makes sense. Now plants had developed a very strong root system

 

[Creeperpark]

Hi! how can I buffer the pH to 6.0 for example? adding cal mag is more long term solution, and I cannot mix it into the soilless mix since the root system is completely developed.

It always happens when I add this fertilizer (https://shop.greenhousefeeding.com/grow-bag.html) while growing, that even with the nute solution (adding chelated calcium) pH around 7.0, the runoff ends with 5.5. The soilless mix buffers tap water to 6.0.

The flowering fertilizers often buffers at 6.0, but not these ones

Test the plain tap water and tell me what the pH is.

 

[Vancho]

Test the plain tap water and tell me what the pH is.

Just tested. It's 7.2
Some days it can go lower, like 6.9, but not further.

The mix brand is Klasmann TS3, it always buffers tap water to 6.0. Whenever I add growth nutes it buffers down to 5.5. This is not the same with the flowering nutes, which work perfectly fine buffering around 6 again.

Should I get another growth fertilizer? would it be okay to mix different brands in the same crop?

 

[Creeperpark]

Just tested. It's 7.2
Some days it can go lower, like 6.9, but not further.

The mix brand is Klasmann TS3, it always buffers tap water to 6.0. Whenever I add growth nutes it buffers down to 5.5. This is not the same with the flowering nutes, which work perfectly fine buffering around 6 again.

Should I get another growth fertilizer? would it be okay to mix different brands in the same crop?

No, don't mix nutrients because it can cause problems.

 

[Lester Beans]

I would start by paying closer attention to the pH of the solution going in vs the solution going out.

Mix the nutrients into the water and then adjust the pH to 6.2-6.5. any input should be pH adjusted.

Letting the pot dry that much is going to make things worse so make sure you water plain ph'd water in first to rehydrate the soil before feeding it.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Definitely pH as a main problem, and the wrinkled leaves are a ready sign of it... actually the first thing I noticed.