Hybrids found by the police in the Parvati valley!

[Hoover_lungz]

Ak47 was around when i was in Nepal in 1996

 

[mexcurandero420]

Why must outbreeding be 'pollution'?

Someone once said that they understood why people want to believe that the sky is falling.
I don't understand this mentality.
If you could explain to me why outbreeding is pollution and how a landrace is destroyed by outbreeding, I'd like to try to understand that because it's clearly a widely-held belief.

Also what makes you think that genetic isolation protects against disease?
Sure there are chances for retroviral transmission but what about the influx of disease resistance genes/traits?
Do you think that Inuit people were nearly wiped out by 'flu because some of them had kids with Westerners? That their genetic isolation should have protected them?

Finally, "as long as there's no preservation for heirloom cannabis..."
Where do you get this notion from? Do you really think that is the case? Really?
Only from where I'm standing it looks as though cannabis is perhaps the most preserved collection of subspecies with the most private collections held around the world.
Just because you struggle to find the same product in Acapulco as 200 years ago does not mean that Acapulco ganja genetics are not well-preserved in skunk#1 lines.

I think anyone who talks about 'polluting' or 'destroying' 'the gene pool' is seriously misled.
If you look at the genetics of flowering plants you find multiple copies of ancestral genomes spread intra and inter chromosomally.
There's no such thing as a 'pure landrace' beyond a general phenotype similarity.

Why preserving heirloom cannabis genetics is important

- unique cannabinoid & terpene profiles
- acclimatized & hardened to their own environment.Most western
genetics are bred indoors.
- most western genetics are related and i mean that one variety can
have different names with the same genetic background, so
decrease in genetic diversity.

Only from where I'm standing it looks as though cannabis is perhaps the most preserved collection of subspecies with the most private collections held around the world.

Difficult to say when you have a global prohibition of Cannabis and with online seedbanks on the net, unless you've done some private research.

Why crop diversity matters

http://www.croptrust.org/documents/WebPDF/wyereport.pdf

Keep on growing

 

[Stone Locust]

I think people who don't get it should do research on similar situations in agriculture. Researchers all agree on the dangers of these situations. Because the serious environmental and economical destruction in similar situations is real and a proven fact over and over again in history and the present day. Agricultural papers are practically countless.

And the locals pay the price! (And yes I have strong feelings about this from personal experience).

 

[Nunsacred]

So you think the Parvati people don't have the right to grow hybrids from abroad because they are obliged to protect a unique strain which is so poorly adapted to its locale that it will be ousted by the foreign strain, recessive to it, and not segregating out again?

If you feel so strongly about the Parvati heirloom then I think you should grow it and focus on that instead of pointing fingers at others and claiming doomsday.

I understand the need to preserve diversity; and I think that introducing hybrids to the region is only increasing that, giving the Parvati traits a wider genetic setting.

Perhaps this whole debate comes down to how you define 'landrace' and whether you see diversity as distinct inbred populations only.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

In Strain hunters India Arjan tried to give a local farmer some color coded fem seeds and the farmer already had a hand full of color coded The Church seeds that he planted in his field that year.

It's funny, he goes there to acquire land races and they are already growing his dutch garbage LOL.

 

[mexcurandero420]

So you think the Parvati people don't have the right to grow hybrids from abroad because they are obliged to protect a unique strain which is so poorly adapted to its locale that it will be ousted by the foreign strain, recessive to it, and not segregating out again?

If you feel so strongly about the Parvati heirloom then I think you should grow it and focus on that instead of pointing fingers at others and claiming doomsday.

I understand the need to preserve diversity; and I think that introducing hybrids to the region is only increasing that, giving the Parvati traits a wider genetic setting.

Perhaps this whole debate comes down to how you define 'landrace' and whether you see diversity as distinct inbred populations only.

Introducing polyhybrids fully adapted to an indoor controlled environment to an mountain environment with extremes in temperature, light etc is not a good way to improve a local variety .Within landrace genetics you already have enough diversity.Have grown several landraces myself, but the environment where i grow is different so it is not an good idea for preserving a strain for future generations over there

Keep on growing

 

[Rinse]

Just because you struggle to find the same product in Acapulco as 200 years ago does not mean that Acapulco ganja genetics are not well-preserved in skunk#1 lines.

I think anyone who talks about 'polluting' or 'destroying' 'the gene pool' is seriously misled.
If you look at the genetics of flowering plants you find multiple copies of ancestral genomes spread intra and inter chromosomally.
There's no such thing as a 'pure landrace' beyond a general phenotype similarity.

The way I see it, plants adapt, the western indoor hybrids have, over many generations, adapted to the indoor environment, and have been bred for a specific cannabinoid and terpene profile.
As it happens many Dutch strains are quite similar, all made from skunk, white widow, haze, NL etc...

So in a sense, these strains hybridizing with landraces is "pollution" if you take into account that the finished product of the landrace will be altered.

For example I would not want a cheesey smelling Thai weed that makes me lethargic and not think straight.
I want the Thai that clears my mind and picks me up.
Would be a shame to lose that no?

Especially when locals in many sativa producing countries use cannabis for working outdoors in the heat etc.

Most modern super strength hybrids have lost the subtle side of the high, they have become more like a sledgehammer, a bottle of vodka, than a spiritually uplifting experience IMO.
Whats more the terpenes have become an overpowering stench rather than the herbal aroma's that contain many subtleties (pine, pepper, etc)
Not saying there is no place for these strains, every strain has its place.

As for Acapulco ganja genetics being well-preserved in skunk#1 lines, I was under the impression sk1 was pretty stable, the terpenes, effect and growth is very different from pure Acapulco sativa.

 

[Thule]

The problem is homogenization of the global genepool. The reason why growers would choose to grow westernized genetics is not quality, it's yield and first of all speed. Where ever cannabis growing is illegal the plants are in danger of being chopped down by the leo, in this situation faster maturing hybrids can be a more reliable option.

This is what happened in mexico already. I don't think any smoker would consider the contemporary mexi as being better than what it used to be before.

 

[Stone Locust]

And the locals pay the price! (And yes I have strong feelings about this from personal experience).

If you feel so strongly about the Parvati heirloom then I think you should grow it and focus on that instead of pointing fingers at others and claiming doomsday.

I was talking about invasive species and genetic pollution concerning other agricultural crops and regions, I've never been near the parvati valley.
I have some parvati seeds in the fridge but don't have the slightest idea that will preserve anything (see also mexcurandero's post)

So you think the Parvati people don't have the right to grow hybrids from abroad because they are obliged to protect a unique strain

No man it's not about the right for me. They can do what they want, but if what they want is destructive for themselves in the long term some people feel the need to warn about it.
But you're right that there is definately friction between what is best in the long run and what is most profitable in the short.

a unique strain which is so poorly adapted to its locale that it will be ousted by the foreign strain, recessive to it, and not segregating out again?

Hah that's funny but a regional strain being ousted by an exotic strain doesn't mean the regional strain is poorly adapted, quite the contrary.

I understand the need to preserve diversity; and I think that introducing hybrids to the region is only increasing that, giving the Parvati traits a wider genetic setting.

Genetic diversity on the whole is decreased by this.

Perhaps this whole debate comes down to how you define 'landrace' and whether you see diversity as distinct inbred populations only.

You know, A "landrace" is never an inbred line like skunk#1 or whatever. "Landraces" have very broad genetic bases and a lot of variation.

 

[Nunsacred]

The way I see it, plants adapt, the western indoor hybrids have, over many generations, adapted to the indoor environment, and have been bred for a specific cannabinoid and terpene profile.
As it happens many Dutch strains are quite similar, all made from skunk, white widow, haze, NL etc...

So in a sense, these strains hybridizing with landraces is "pollution" if you take into account that the finished product of the landrace will be altered.

Since the plants adapt, the worst you might expect is a temporary weaker hybrid while the generations adapt back to the Parvati-fit phenos.
Is this pollution or is it a source of alleles which can be used or suppressed?

For example I would not want a cheesey smelling Thai weed that makes me lethargic and not think straight.
I want the Thai that clears my mind and picks me up.
Would be a shame to lose that no?

Especially when locals in many sativa producing countries use cannabis for working outdoors in the heat etc.

right.
So why is the Parvati stock doomed by the introduction of something so unsuitable?
The assumption seems to be that the Parvati farmers won't keep any original lines despite the clear and obvious reasons to do so, and won't be able to rescue the lines even if they try to select them back out.

Most modern super strength hybrids have lost the subtle side of the high, they have become more like a sledgehammer, a bottle of vodka, than a spiritually uplifting experience IMO.
Whats more the terpenes have become an overpowering stench rather than the herbal aroma's that contain many subtleties (pine, pepper, etc)
Not saying there is no place for these strains, every strain has its place.

I totally agree with that.

As for Acapulco ganja genetics being well-preserved in skunk#1 lines, I was under the impression sk1 was pretty stable, the terpenes, effect and growth is very different from pure Acapulco sativa.

ok, maybe you're right, I don't agree, but at least that helps me understand why you might say a line is doomed by outbreeding.
The thing is, how do plants adapt if they can't reactivate ancestrals? Is it all fresh mutation?

 

[red rider]

From what I've seen here in Colombia, you can get modern hybrids grown outdoors all day long. However the pure landrace sativa is still very prevalent and is just the way I remember it from the 70s. Speaking just for Colombia I don’t think you could get rid of the original strains if you wanted too, Colombia still has very remote regions and just because some people are growing “imported” strains their not interbreeding with the original strains. So don’t worry cause the Gold, Punto Rojo and all the great strains from the recent past are alive and well here being preserved in their natural habitat.
Peace from Colombia!

 

[red rider]

Landraced

Landraced

From what I've seen here in Colombia, you can get modern hybrids grown outdoors all day long. However the pure landrace sativa is still very prevalent and is just the way I remember it from the 70s. Speaking just for Colombia I don’t think you could get rid of the original strains if you wanted too, Colombia still has very remote regions and just because some people are growing “imported” strains their not interbreeding with the original strains. So don’t worry cause the Gold, Punto Rojo and all the great strains from the recent past are alive and well here being preserved in their natural habitat.

Peace from Colombia!

 

[Scottish Research]

It's a weed.



R.Fortune

 

[red rider]

It's a weed.



R.Fortune

Yes sir it's "the weed".

 

[Stone Locust]

Just a small reaction to "it's a weed".

A "weed" is a subjective term for an undesired plant within a certain context (wikipedia). It doesn't really say anything other than that.

 

[scai]

This is what I think.
Landraces have been always been mixed with each others.Even in Parvati valleys, there has been meny kind of phenos, and over the years, wind has blown pollen allaround...
You can't keep one strain outside, pure? It's always gone be mix with something..

Has anyone thought that in those valleys, plants are gone get inbred...and thats not necessarly a good thing.
Maybe introducing a different genepool to them, is a matter of life and dead?
Add vigour, add skills to survive.
Like someone said, the smoke is boring?

And I believe too, that if you plant 2 acres of White Widow in some valley....against that there are some hundred hectares of landraces...is going to lead only to mixing.
The new genetics come pollinated with old landraces, and landraces are overpowering them...

It's genes that survive.Not the newcomers.
I believe that plants are capable of mixing genes and the ones that survive, are the best ones.

Many people here are arguing about species that are inside grown...well, those plants dont survive outside...so what is there to worry about.

Man thinks he is superior, but nature has other thoughts...
What ever man does, it's gone get adapted, if left alone...nature has patience and it surely has it's on ways...

 

[mexcurandero420]

Since the plants adapt, the worst you might expect is a temporary weaker hybrid while the generations adapt back to the Parvati-fit phenos.

What is in your point of view temporary.Farmers in the Parvati don't have the time to wait many generations till they have a sortalike strain back what they had in the past.Another thing is that those landraces still have an unique cannabinoid profile with the Bt/Bd gene, while most western hybrids only have the Bt/gene.In the past some of those strains were used for medicinal purposes, since Cannabis is coming back as medicine, there is more demand for the seeds.You can better support those farmers by buying those seeds than sending seeds of poor breed strains to them.

It doesn't make any sense btw to make crosses to get weaker hybrids.What's the purpose for that.

Keep on growing

 

[2 Legal Co]

R. Fortune:
FINALLY, somebody said it. Thank you.

So........... that said, somebody's weed is our prized product. And used to be a prized product everywhere in the world.

Now to the point of 'preserving' the 'local' strains. If that is important, (and maybe it is), then everyone who does a cross with a 'landrace' is criminal?

But who 'made' the landrace? Was it not crossed with others to become what it is now?

At what point do you draw the line and say "this is a local strain"? Is it criminal insanity to chop Ditch weed in Nebraska and Kansas, and replant with something you Want to grow? Or is it imperative that we protect the genetics from 200 or so years ago, when our ancestors selected plants what produced long, strong, and very fibereous stems?

At some point it becomes a contest presenting only a very narrow view of the picture. Case in point, the farmer who has a field of 'Ditchweed' growing down by the creek. The County extension agent shows up and tells him, 'You'll have to eliminate that Marijuana.'

The old farmers of the 50s and 60s, tended to tell them that if the government wants them gone they need to come do it, because that same government told me and my father we Had to plant it. OOOps

But the government listened. They created the DEA, spent Huge amounts of $s on salaries and equipment so that they could fly in and destroy all those plants. Some of which are/were planted with THC in mind and some which are just 'Ditchweed'?

And so the debate goes on; the chicken or the egg?

Thx for listening. I'll shut up now.

 

[2 Legal Co]

Maybe someday the Government will ban all GMO products? YEAH RIGHT.

 

[Nunsacred]

Let's imagine for a moment that it comes down to a ridiculously simple, single extra allele/gene in wilder 'landrace' strains.
How is that removed from the population by outbreeding with hybrids which lack it?

Answer: it isn't, until significant long term efforts are made to inbreed its absence in limited individuals.

Mexcurry420 you don't speak for Parvati farmers. They are free to grow whatever they choose and just because you think they 'should' stick to traditional stock doesn't mean Jacky nor Jilly Shit.

If there's a threat to that strain from replacement, it's via many years of human effort to do so. If it's so good, that won't happen.
I think you understand that those farmers aren't deliberately growing weak hybrids, they're trying something different, and can probably be trusted to know what they like after growing it.




There is no genetic basis for claiming doomsday.