Huge Yield Differences in SOG

[ChenBenTz]

So, I just completed my first SOG with 11 plants in 8L pots.

Unlike my other grows (usually in 17L pots), there are huge yield differences between the plants.

I got 11 oz. (336g), which amounts to an oz. a plant, but some plants yielded half an ounce and other yielded almost two.

Yields are as follows:

1.) 47g
2.) 39g
3.) 38g
4.) 37g
5.) 37g
6.) 33g
7.) 28g
8.) 23g
9.) 22g
10.) 20g
11.) 12g

All plants LOOKED the same when harvesting. Couldn't tell the difference between them.

Anyone have any idea?

 

[hup234]

maybe light spread,what size light over what area?

 

[ChenBenTz]

maybe light spread,what size light over what area?

Yeah, that was my hypothesis too.

I had a 600w over them quite close in a 1.3x0.8 space.

But, for instance, I had 8 17L plants under a 1000w in a 1.6x1.1 space and the yield differences were very minute.

 

[hup234]

All clones off one mother?

 

[ChenBenTz]

All clones off one mother?

No, I had a few mothers, but like I said - they all yielded pretty much the same.

 

[hup234]

Could be a lot of things,but if the light is even over the whole canopy ,and there's no cold spots,wet spots ,drafty spots in the grow area,then what usually burns me is lack of root mass @ flip(hard to tell if you're in soil)sorry can't be of more help...

 

[dank.frank]

could be that you are not running a SOG but are growing lollipop (trained single cola) style...

SOG = 4 plants per sq ft.

The best way to ensure consistent yields per plant is to take 3x more cuttings than you need - an only select the plants that are rooted the same, growing at the same rate, etc - to fill in your flower room. The rest just get tossed. My 1st thought would be inconsistent cuts to start with...



dank.Frank

 

[ChenBenTz]

Could be a lot of things,but if the light is even over the whole canopy ,and there's no cold spots,wet spots ,drafty spots in the grow area,then what usually burns me is lack of root mass @ flip(hard to tell if you're in soil)sorry can't be of more help...

I can't be certain, but root mass seemed similar after harvest.

could be that you are not running a SOG but are growing lollipop (trained single cola) style...

SOG = 4 plants per sq ft.

The best way to ensure consistent yields per plant is to take 3x more cuttings than you need - an only select the plants that are rooted the same, growing at the same rate, etc - to fill in your flower room. The rest just get tossed. My 1st thought would be inconsistent cuts to start with...

dank.Frank

I had pretty much 1 plant per square foot. 4 per square foot is possible but only with 1 gallon containers (I used 2.5 gallon).

The idea of separating cuttings by their rooting speed is neat, but all my plants pretty much grew to the same height and in the same amount of time.

That's why I called it SOG because it looked like a forest.

 

[dank.frank]

SOG = 6" (1/2 gallon) pots - 4 per sq ft - just rooted clones flipped directly into flower...fwiw.

It's just the set parameters of what defines SOG. The terminology has been lost and become too loosely applied to anything that isn't trees or big bushes under a screen.

You lollipop / train for single cola dominance.

Not saying you grew anything improperly, just helping define what you are saying.

But a truly successful SOG - take selecting clones that are all growing identical and tossing the outliers.



dank.Frank

 

[George]

light spread IMO at least. your room was 4.25' x 2.62' (for us weird imperial folk) with the 600. seems like a stretch no? the 1k is gonna throw the light out better even with slightly larger room i think.

 

[G.O.T.]

SOG = 6" (1/2 gallon) pots - 4 per sq ft - just rooted clones flipped directly into flower...fwiw.

It's just the set parameters of what defines SOG. The terminology has been lost and become too loosely applied to anything that isn't trees or big bushes under a screen.

You lollipop / train for single cola dominance.

Not saying you grew anything improperly, just helping define what you are saying.

But a truly successful SOG - take selecting clones that are all growing identical and tossing the outliers.



dank.Frank

i agree, however I believe there is a few ways of thinking...

A true SOG would be a perpetual area with 3-4 trays of plants varied in age.... a wave of plants would be introduced as wave was harvested.

4 per sq. ft. is the common SOG parameters yes... however 1 per sq. ft. lollipop style is very similar in a SOG of any type.

quick turnaround, little veg, and the need for consistent moms and clones. i run a 1 per sq. ft. room with 63 flowering plants. cutting over 120 clones, tossing half... feels SOG'y to me

 

[ChenBenTz]

light spread IMO at least. your room was 4.25' x 2.62' (for us weird imperial folk) with the 600. seems like a stretch no? the 1k is gonna throw the light out better even with slightly larger room i think.

Yes, I went through all the trouble of labeling each plant (there are more than I described) but didn't think of labeling them for proximity to light.

My room is 2x1.5M. I have two 600w in that space. I haven't found a way to partition it more properly.

As for the SOG debate - I have tried flipping plants early on and the results were not great. 12L pots yielded the same as 8L pots with the same amount of veg. So, according to my findings, veg time = yield.

 

[dank.frank]

If you adapt a style...it changes what it is. TRUE SOG has a set of specific parameters is my point.

Adapting certain principles and applying them to another style of growing is fine - it just doesn't make it a SOG anymore...it makes it something else.

If you want a perpetual SOG - you run multiple lights. Running plants of different ages messes up the canopy and undermines the primary reason for running SOG - YIELD.

Personally, I don't care how you grow - you should ALWAYS take more cuts than you need and ALWAYS only keep the VERY BEST of those alive. It's how you prevent genetic drift and ensure the integrity of the plant from generation to generation.

If you want plants that perform exactly the same - that is how you do it. By being highly critical of the clones you keep alive. Cloning was never meant to be a take 5 grow 5 type of scenario. As a rule of thumb, you should always take more than you need.

It's only because of the massive influx of new growers that this information becomes watered down and made less specific. With less specificity, you have less than ideal results. What I'm saying used to be the status quo...and it used to be you could get online and read a post and follow it EXACTLY and end up with mirrored results...

Now people say - oh well, I followed so and so - but I changed this...and did this and well, substituted this for that because it's basically the same thing...WHY DIDN'T IT WORK!!!?!?!? So and so is a hack. I tried it "their" way and it didn't work.

When in reality...no...no you didn't at all...

Just trying to restore a bit of that old knowledge from forums past...



dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

As for the SOG debate - I have tried flipping plants early on and the results were not great. 12L pots yielded the same as 8L pots with the same amount of veg. So, according to my findings, veg time = yield.

That's because not every plant is suited for SOG style growing...just like every plant is not ideal for single cola training nor is every plant ideal for SCROG...

It takes a particular plant to "fit" a SOG garden. A 8wk short stout kush that doesn't stretch at all is a bad choice. A 10wk OG that is lanky and has huge distances between internodes is a bad choice, etc...

Find a 12wk sativa dominant hybrid with 4-5x stretch, short internode distance, not a lot of lateral branching, that still retains a hybrid flower density. Then you can flower an 8" cut that still finishes at 30-36" and still yields...

Anyway...



dank.Frank

 

[ChenBenTz]

If you adapt a style...it changes what it is. TRUE SOG has a set of specific parameters is my point.

Adapting certain principles and applying them to another style of growing is fine - it just doesn't make it a SOG anymore...it makes it something else.

If you want a perpetual SOG - you run multiple lights. Running plants of different ages messes up the canopy and undermines the primary reason for running SOG - YIELD.

Personally, I don't care how you grow - you should ALWAYS take more cuts than you need and ALWAYS only keep the VERY BEST of those alive. It's how you prevent genetic drift and ensure the integrity of the plant from generation to generation.

If you want plants that perform exactly the same - that is how you do it. By being highly critical of the clones you keep alive. Cloning was never meant to be a take 5 grow 5 type of scenario. As a rule of thumb, you should always take more than you need.

It's only because of the massive influx of new growers that this information becomes watered down and made less specific. With less specificity, you have less than ideal results. What I'm saying used to be the status quo...and it used to be you could get online and read a post and follow it EXACTLY and end up with mirrored results...

Now people say - oh well, I followed so and so - but I changed this...and did this and well, substituted this for that because it's basically the same thing...WHY DIDN'T IT WORK!!!?!?!? So and so is a hack. I tried it "their" way and it didn't work.

When in reality...no...no you didn't at all...

Just trying to restore a bit of that old knowledge from forums past...



dank.Frank

So, TL;DR - Only use the cuttings that rooted fastest and the meaning of the term SOG is very specific and determined by its coiner.

Me, personally, if something looks like a sea of green, I call it SOG.

You can call me a n00b if you like

That's because not every plant is suited for SOG style growing...just like every plant is not ideal for single cola training nor is every plant ideal for SCROG...

It takes a particular plant to "fit" a SOG garden. A 8wk short stout kush that doesn't stretch at all is a bad choice. A 10wk OG that is lanky and has huge distances between internodes is a bad choice, etc...

Find a 12wk sativa dominant hybrid with 4-5x stretch, short internode distance, not a lot of lateral branching, that still retains a hybrid flower density. Then you can flower an 8" cut that still finishes at 30-36" and still yields...

Anyway...



dank.Frank

I have no idea what you said, but I hope one day to.

 

[G.O.T.]

lollipop could be a sub genre of SOG.

as for how it used to be to how it is now... well shit, u kinda lost me there.

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

Frank is spot on.


SoG Sea of Green, "the plant let method" is 1 plant in 6" sq, 4 per sq ft. 48 or 49 PSM, per square metre.

Continuous flowering gardens are also great and highly efficient, but has zero relationship with SoG, but you are free to do both. You can continuously flower 6" pot SoG, or 10ft tall trees if you wish.

Using the strongest cuts will help your consistency and therfore, obviously the yield.

My best SoG yield was flowered at 10cm, 4", in NFT, ime even coco takes longer to get them FLYING, so lolipopping (to just leave say 4 nodes like my 10cm cut but with, say, another 10cm of stripped bare stalk below) would probably yield better still.

Using 3d techniques to create a stadium is also "free yield" in my opinion. Try putting your outside pots on say, 6" risers so they get better light and your crop is more even and the total yield, higher.

 

[ChenBenTz]

What I took from this thread is that not all cuttings are created equal.

I went back and looked at previous grows (last one was from seed) and noticed that there was, in fact, a larger difference in yield between the plants.

I will try to take more cuttings next time and only plant the ones that root quickly.

Thanks, everyone!

 

[DrFever]

all cuttings are created equal as long as it came from the same host plant and cloned same size i used to do Sea of green / Sogs multiple room 3- 4 k 76 plants in each room ....
But what i learned after multiple attempts is you never really harvest the whole plant only 1/4 as all lower bud sites get shaded from over lapping
Everyone tends to think cause you pack room with plants your going to yield more truth of the matter is it sure looks like it ..
But truth is you get less least from my experience for instance before 76 plant rooms 3k vegged 5 weeks costs of feeding time to feed every one = lots of hrs and food cost increase soil costs yield 6 - 7 pounds strain Afghanistan kush
then took a room went 2 k 4 plant LST / trained as in super cropped worked on having all bud sites in direct light source out come 4.75 pounds = 4 plants VEGGED 5 weeks same as sog but less plants and 1k less in power 5 x 10 scrog

next room 12 plant 3k 5 x 15 scrog outcome 7 3/4 pound harvest see where i am getting at
bottom line you can run million plants in a room with hardly ANY MEDIUM you will get hardly any yield show me a plant that did 1 pound in 2 - 3 gallon pot ??? root mass = yield if a person is dead set on sogs then maybe also look at tubs 50 gallon 2 - 4 plants per then maybe it will compete and you can bump up your yields but playing with 2 gallon 3 gallon pots to fill a room is really waisting your time

 

[soggiebottom]

Some great points made...I guess I "almost" SOG then...haha
8-10in on center density...12-14day veg from a 3" rooted cut

I can't for the life of me understand how or why a 25 site per light would need a 5wk veg as DrFever mentioned^ ....
But as Frank pointed out...every grow will be different when introducing variables.

About the original post...that's quite a variable yield plant to plant.....uneven light spread I guess...