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How to make a soilless mix

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sproutco

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My original soil mix was 3 parts 1/4"-3/8" composted pinebark + 3 parts perlite + maybe 1 part peatmoss for more moisture retention. The pinebark I found almost ground and not nuggets under the name mother natures helper at home depot. Just examine the different barks and find the smallest size you can but not chunks/nuggets or mininuggets. A little more moisture retentive version would be 3 parts bark, 2 parts peatmoss, and 2 parts perlite. This bark mix would be excellent to try. :yes: You could use 1 part peatmoss and 2 parts perlite if bark is not available. All these mixes are fluffy and have good aeration for indoors. Indoors, plants do not dry out like they would in the sun and heat.

Small ground bark and not nuggets shown here


You may find the small ground bark under the name pine bark mulch. This may have some chunks that need picking out. Soil conditioner may be another thing to look for that is ground pine bark. Like I said before, mother natures helper is a brand. Real inexpensive


Pictured below are the large pine bark nuggets you don't want for your mix


You would use 2 pounds of lime per cubic yard of pinebark and 3 pounds of lime per cubic yard of peatmoss (1 pound of powdered dolomite lime is about 1 1/2 cups or 72 teaspoons). This is a low rate of lime because it is better to underlime than overlime. More lime can be used like 5 pounds per yard but you should do some tests to see what ph your getting. I describe this a little later. No lime is needed for vermiculite or perlite. 1.5 pounds of powdered gypsum per yard is added for sulfur (1 pound powdered gypsum = 2 cups or 96 teaspoons). Make sure it is powdered dolomite lime and gypsum and not pelletized. There are 27 cubic feet in a yard. On a small scale, you could put the bark or peatmoss in a bucket. Measure the radius of the bucket and height. Radius x radius x 3.14 x height = cubic inches. 1728 cubic inches is a cubic foot. For example, we want to add 2 pounds of lime per yard. The bucket is 14 inches in diameter and 12 inches high. 7 radius x 7 radius x 3.14 x 12 height = 1846 cubic inches 1846/1728 = 1.07 cubic feet 1.07/27 yards x 72 teaspoons x 2 pounds = 5.7 teaspoons of lime mixed into the bucket. If you used a square shape, length x width x height in inches = volume in cubic inches.

For the lazy folks, 2 pound per yard lime rate would be 3/4 teaspoon per gallon of soil mix or 1.75 tablespoons per cubic foot. The 3 pound lime rate per yard of soil would be 1 1/8 teaspoon per gallon or 2.6 tablespoons per cubic foot of soil. The 5 pound lime rate per yard would be 2 teaspoons per gallon or 4.5 tablespoons per cubic foot of soil. 1.5 pounds gypsum per yard would be 3/4 teaspoon per gallon of soil or 1 3/4 tablespoon per cubic foot of soil.

The final soil mix is not limed only the acidic components that need lime like the bark or peatmoss. The gypsum is added to all the components in the final mix because it is neutral and won't affect ph. Everything gets the powdered gypsum.

Once you have the lime and gypsum added to the peatmoss or bark, mix well with the perlite or vermiculite. Use care not to inhale the perlite dust. Take a small cup of this mixture and water thoroughly. Let sit for a week. Take 1 part of this incubated mix and 1 part distilled water and stir. After 30 minutes, use your ph meter and test. More lime can be added to your soil blend if needed. You should aim for 5.6 to 6.2 ph with 5.8 best in the nutrient solution and soilless mix. Using the same ratio of lime and soil components, choose several different lime rates and try them out in small pots. Test the ph and find the lime rate that works best. Example: 2,3, and 5 pound per yard lime rate used on 3 small 1 gallon pots of peatmoss half filled. Perlite is added to fill up the remainder of the pot and mixed together with the peatmoss and lime. Wet. Wait a week. Test ph. Choose the best lime rate. This is a good way to experiment.

Powdered dolomite lime:

Peatmoss in bales can be chunky when you pour it out. You can break up the chunks by hand or scrape them across a piece of hardware cloth till you get a close to powder like consistency . Using the hardware cloth is like grating cheese.

You can see this freshly opened bale of peatmoss is chunky and needs breaking apart well.


Mixing a large batch is not a problem. Spread out a large tarp, old sheet, or dropcloth and put the ingredients into a pile in the middle. Putting everything on a flat concrete surface also works. You can mix by hand or use a shovel depending on the size of the pile. It works well to shovel the edges into the middle. As more falls to the edges from this, shovel it back to the middle. Also turn the middle from bottom to top. You want everything blended well.



5 gallon buckets work for mixing smaller batches. Take 2 buckets and pour 1 into the other. Repeat several times. Also stir with your hand.

Picture shows the soil pile with the ingredients unmixed and just thrown on (click on it to enlarge):


If mixing your soil is a hassle try fafard 3 or promix. Fafard for sure adds lime and gypsum to there mixes. Promix also has lime added but may not have gypsum. Some of the promixes are too heavy and retain too much moisture because they contain alot of peatmoss. Promix hp (or high porosity) may be there best mix to try. You could easily just add more perlite to further add aeration to these mixes if needed.





The original peatlite formulas were 1/2 peatmoss + 1/2 perlite or 1/2 peatmoss and 1/2 vermiculite. The guys name was Boodley at Cornell university that created them. Both mixes are heavy and probably retain too much water for indoor use (maybe could be used for seed starting) but are good for outdoors in hot weather. Thats why I use perlite instead of vermiculite indoors because it does not hold too much water. Today, pinebark is added to soilless mixes because it suppresses disease like pythium or fusarium rootrot and can be found cheaper than peatmoss. 35% bark or more is good to use in your soil mix. :YaRight:

I feed my plants at every watering. You would use 50 parts per million (ppm) nitrogen for small seedlings and 100 ppm nitrogen for regular growing. In vegetative growth in good light, I might raise this to 150 ppm nitrogen. Of course, your nutrient solution would contain more than just nitrogen. The higher the nitrate nitrogen the better. Avoid urea/ammonia. 60%+ nitrate nitrogen is best. Lower rates of nitrogen like 100 ppm work well during bloom.

Formulating your own nutrient solutions is fun. You will have to learn to measure your fertilizer in parts per million/so many grams of fertilizer per liter of water. You will need a gram scale and "round up" ingredients for a "recipe". Find a good hydroponic book and it should explain how to mix up nutrient solutions following a formula. Directions are in my signature below.

If this is a hassle, try 20-10-20 peatlite/soilless fertilizer by masterblend or peters. You can find this using the internet for about $20 plus shipping for a 25 pound bag. It is 60% nitrate nitrogen and that is good. It also has elevated levels of micronutrients versus just regular formulations. You will still need a gram scale and learn parts per million. Roughly, 1 teaspoon 20-10-20 is about 250-300 parts per million nitrogen. It does not contain calcium, magnesium, or sulfur so these might need to be added later on when soil supplies of these nutrients begin to run low. Even with a low rate of dolomite lime and gypsum in the soil, I suggest adding a low rate of cal., mag., sulfur along with the regular fertilizer in the water. 1/4 teaspoon epsom salts and 1/4 teaspoon powdered gypsum can be added per gallon of water (3.8L) every third or fourth time you fertilize or every time if supplies in the soil run low. This provides about 30 ppm magnesium and 70 ppm calcium. In bloom switching to less nitrogen and more phosphorus like 10-30-20 may be beneficial although using just a reduced rate of 20-10-20 surprisingly also works. 15-16-17 is excellent in bloom. :cool: Both peters and masterblend make this formula. Make sure it says for peatlite or soilless growing on all these bags.







How to figure parts per million using these granular ferts.... For example, if you want to feed seedlings 75 parts per million nitrogen using 20-10-20: 75 mg (mg and ppm are the same thing) x 3.8 liters (we'll make a gallon) x 5 (inverse .2 which is 1 divided by .2 = 5 ;.2 refers to 20% nitrogen the first number in the fert) = 75 x 3.8 x 5 = 1425 mg or 1.425 grams in a gallon of water. If you have a cheap hand held scale, it might be better to make enough for say 32 gallons to be more accurate. 32 x 1.425 grams = 45.6 grams or about 46 grams. Put this in a gallon jug (3.8 liters). This is called a stock. Shake till disolved. Then when you want to make 1 gallon to feed the plants 75 ppm nitrogen, put 4 ounces of the stock in a gallon of water. 4ounces out of stock/128 ounces in stock = makes 32 gallons this strength. To feed larger plants say 150 ppm nitrogen, you would add 8 ounces (double) out of this stock to your gallon of water.



General hydro's Flora nova series is an excellent fertilizer to use. Only requires 1 bottle of grow formula and 1 bottle of bloom formula. No other additives are needed. No occassional application of epsom salts and gyspum will be needed in the water. You should use maybe no gypsum and a low rate of lime in your soil mix because these ferts contain alot of calcium, magnesium, and sulfur. Here is my thread on suggestions for using this including easy to use ml per gallon rates without other measuring like parts per million. http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=38801



Knowing the ph of your soilless mix during the grow is important. Ways to test the ph while growing are in my signature about testing soil ph. Electrical conductivity can also be monitored.

You should adjust the ph of your nutrient solution after mixing for soilless mixes to 5.8 to 6. Directions for making your own ph up and down are in my signature.

It is probably best you do not add blood meal or bonemeal or anything else other than the lime and gypsum into the soil before you plant. You do not know how much nutrients are present and being released. You end up having to guess at what to add in your nutrient solution. By leaving out added nutrients mixed into the soil, you control what the plants get through your nutrient solution exactly.

How often to water is easy when you use soilless mix. When wet it will be heavy and when dry will become lighter in weight and color. You can just lift a pot and be able to know how much water is there. Eventually, you find a schedule when you will know when water is needed. As the plants roots fill the container, you will begin to have to water more often. As a rule, it is better to have to water more often than have the plant just sitting wet for days and not drying out. That is why you want a light fluffy soil mix.

Good luck growing! :wave:

 
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sproutco

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I just wanted to point out that I use a low rate of dolomite lime and don't solely depend on it to get calcium and magnesium. Depending solely on dolomite lime might lead to overliming and get your ph too high. I added this in:
Even with a low rate of dolomite and gypsum in the soil, I add a low rate of cal, mag, sulfur along with the regular fert in the water. 1/4 teaspoon epsom salts and gypsum can be added per gallon of water (3.8L) every third or fourth time I fert or every time if supplies in the soil run low.
These don't alter ph and adjusting your fert water after mixing takes care of any ph problems.
 
G

Guest

great post but shouldnt it be under hydro since it's soilless and this is a soil forum?
 

sproutco

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hurricanefaniam said:
great post but shouldnt it be under hydro since it's soilless and this is a soil forum?
Good point but I think it is more "soil" like than hydro. It could be called agregate hydroponics. :chin:
 
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sproutco

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hurricanefaniam said:
how is it more soil like if it's soilless?
Because it has a cec just like soil. Cation exchange capacity. http://www.microsoil.com/CEC.htm It retains nutrients. Strongly usually. Hydroponic media like hydroton really only serve to support the plant not retain nutrients. So, soilless mixes serve to both support the plant, retain alot of nutrients between feedings, and provide longer term contact with water rather than frequent waterings (like hydro nft for example). Soilless mixes lean toward soil more than hydro in their behavior. How's that sound...I am so high right now. :smoker:
 
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V

vonforne

sproutco said:
Because it has a cec just like soil. Cation exchange capacity. It retains nutrients. Strongly usually. Hydroponic media like hydroton really only serve to support the plant not retain nutrients. So, soilless mixes serve to both support the plant, retain alot of nutrients between feedings, and provide longer term contact with water rather than frequent waterings (like hydro nft for example). Soilless mixes lean toward soil more than hydro in their behavior. How's that sound...I am so high right now. :smoker:


:yeahthats

I had always believed that a soiless mix was what I was using. but with peat, guanos and castings, I now believe it is soil...not soiless. And that sounded good even though you are high and mispelling words Sproutco. You must be high because you hardly ever do that. :chin:
 
G

Guest

sounds ok but still not sure how soilless is like soil ?could you show more reports how the cec is the same as the soilless mixture you describe compared to soil...
 

sproutco

Active member
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hurricanefaniam said:
sounds ok but still not sure how soilless is like soil ?could you show more reports how the cec is the same as the soilless mixture you describe compared to soil...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cation_exchange_capacity

Soil may have less cation exchange capacity than soilless. Usually it depends on the amount of sand in soils. Alot of clay in soils retains nutrients because of its high cec. Sand retains little because of a low cec. In my eyes, the definition of soil involves minerals with the components being clay, silt, and sand. This is where I live in the world. (Probably like yours too) It has a higher optimum ph than soilless mixes containing peatmoss for example. Adding a little bit of earthworm castings or guano to your soilless mix does not automatically make it "soil". Its optimum ph may still be just like the soilless. :YaRight:

Optimum pH Values
(Compare your soil test(s) to these values.)

pH
Soilless media
5.5 - 6.0
Media with 20% or more field soil
6.2 - 6.5
You can see the definition of soil by the Univ. of massachusetts is "field soil" added at least 20%. Do earthworm castings = "field soil"??? :chin:

http://www.umass.edu/umext/floriculture/fact_sheets/greenhouse_management/soiltest.html
 
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G

Guest

ok I understand where you are trying to go but wikipedia is the wrong place for facts..if enough people agree it becomes fact...anything else on this matter?
 

sproutco

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I did not even read the wikipedia defintion. Just trying to point out where to look for maybe more info. Reread my last post. I fixed the link. I am really baked. :cool: So:
Hydro = no medium or low cec medium constantly depending on water and a steady stream of nutrients
soil or soilless = cec with less need to water; more soil like reactions happening in both soil and soilless like "lock out" of nutrients because of being "grabbed" by the media or excess occurring from its nutrient release later on.

Soilless mixes are almost hydro don't get me wrong.
 
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inflorescence

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I've always considered my soiless peat mixes to be hydro, it's just that the water has a HELLUVA LOT of peat in it. lol
 

iamtallpine

New member
When the water drains the peat is left with a HELLUVA LOT of water and nutrients in it. Why would you mix soil and not know the nutrient mix when you can buy the Pro Mix non-organic (meaning inert) then add the correct organic nutrients in the amount you requier
 

sproutco

Active member
Veteran
Thanks for the nice comments. I edited it and added a little more. I thought the pictures were a nice colorful addition. :wave:
 
V

vonforne

Ya, I thought the pics were not there the first time I read it but I thought I was just stoned and didn't notice them. Great thread once again but "you must spread around some reputation before giving it to sproutco again" HaHa I will get you on the next round.

Von
 
G

Guest

Hey sproutco, have you ever grown cannabis in pine bark?

Are you going to try it? Oh yeah that's right you haven't grown cannabis since the 80's if you ever have.

:moon:
 
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