How many KW/Day usage is acceptable and how many is drawing attention?

[Bodhi Roach]

I was wondering about power usage in BC Canada,

How much is too much?

There are some wacky seizure laws up here and they are pretty scary.

Does anyone know what the average daily KW use is on a modern present day house? Approximately 2000sqft with 3.5 baths and 5 bedrooms

These days with sealed rooms and such, its easy to rack up the power bill on A/C, pumps, filter fans, scrubbers, Dehums etc.... and it leaves a paper trail for the green team to follow up.

How much power can one use every day/month and stay off the LEO radar?

Do they need more than just a high power bill to come pay you a visit?

 

[apartmentblower]

depends where you are


lower mainland anything over 93 kw/h will eventually have the EFSI and cops knocking at your door

its extremely fucked and they are violating people's rights and screwing with people that aren't even growing or in places they can't prove theres a grow op. plus the cops don't have a warrant....

outside of the lower mainland use your head

 

[apartmentblower]

is there private power in BC? I know there are private hydro dams but actual providers? there are companies that take over billing and stuff and package it together with hot water and etc. that are private but im pretty sure bc hydro still takes care of transmission and therefore would still know your average use. but makes me wonder if going with a private "consolidator" that they have in certain areas would muddle things up enough that BC hydro wouldnt have a clear picture of what your using???? or not

 

[Bodhi Roach]

hey AB, thanks for the reply,

wow 93kw/h
where does this number come from?

sheesh, wow, thats like only 3-4 1k lights on 12/12 for 48kw/h per day
fans
AC/Dehum 24/7 is like 35 kw/h

wow man, BC went to the dumps,

is plant count a determining factor?

for instance, 50 plant SCROG compared to 8 - 5 foot trees?

I read this and am now thinking to scrap the future project
http://www.canada.com/news/court+quashes+forfeiture+order+grower+home/1643191/story.html

 

[apartmentblower]

hey AB, thanks for the reply,

wow 93kw/h
where does this number come from?

sheesh, wow, thats like only 3-4 1k lights on 12/12 for 48kw/h per day
fans
AC/Dehum 24/7 is like 35 kw/h

wow man, BC went to the dumps,

is plant count a determining factor?

for instance, 50 plant SCROG compared to 8 - 5 foot trees?

I read this and am now thinking to scrap the future project
http://www.canada.com/news/court+quashes+forfeiture+order+grower+home/1643191/story.html

Also, remember Canada's Bill C-15 is still waiting to vote through senate. mandatory minimum jail time for growers. what the hells going on!!! i pray it gets shot down...

i talked to some experienced guys and they said previously, plant count means nothing. well unless you are getting into 30,000 but i assume your not. with bill c-15 that will all change, get busted with 6 plants, off to jail for 6 months... have 200+? 2 years buddy.

the number is BC hydro's 3x the average of a regular household usage, which is absolute bullshit cause houses are of all different sizes, higher end houses have more a/c, more appliances, electronics, etc. etc.

that one case i hope sets a precedent in not letting the province take your home. i believe they only really look into taking your property if they can prove you have been paying for the home or getting a substantial part of your income....


either way i would still grow, just keep it smart and under the limit. i know its tough if you live in the house already, but something like 4x600w with regular venting (not a/c) can keep it under the limit. this is why so many people are stealing hydro now, but if you get caught doing that you are in some trouble especially if its your house. honestly the only thing this 93 kw/h rule does is force people to rent other locations for their grows, move their grows further out of the lower mainland , or steal hydro. and again, there are countless people that are probably over the limit right now. bc hydro suspects a buttload of grows in the area and theres no way the EFSI and cops can address them all

 

[Jnugg]

In the U.S. 1000w per bedroom is acceptable.I'd say your best bet is calculating the normal costs of living electric wise like the homes A/C and house lights,refridgerator,stove/oven....see how much your bill is and what your power usage is.From there calculate what you'll be needing into it.


Here in Fla at my last place,a small 2 bedroom 2 bathroom apartment with central A/C my bill was running around $150-$200 a month with my 400w grow.Why was my bill so high...my computer never gets shut off,some house lights were left on,and we didn't have the best of insulation so the A/C got set at about 68-70 instead of 72-75.

In anoher apartment I was living in (1 bed/1 bath 2 window A/C units) and no grow my bill was about $75 a month but the windo a/c's were on 24/7 so it would have been cheaper had I had a better A/C unit.


So look at what you're paying now and go from there.

 

[apartmentblower]

In the U.S. 1000w per bedroom is acceptable.I'd say your best bet is calculating the normal costs of living electric wise like the homes A/C and house lights,refridgerator,stove/oven....see how much your bill is and what your power usage is.From there calculate what you'll be needing into it.


Here in Fla at my last place,a small 2 bedroom 2 bathroom apartment with central A/C my bill was running around $150-$200 a month with my 400w grow.Why was my bill so high...my computer never gets shut off,some house lights were left on,and we didn't have the best of insulation so the A/C got set at about 68-70 instead of 72-75.

In anoher apartment I was living in (1 bed/1 bath 2 window A/C units) and no grow my bill was about $75 a month but the windo a/c's were on 24/7 so it would have been cheaper had I had a better A/C unit.


So look at what you're paying now and go from there.

none of this advice is applicable to him cause i assume hes in the EFSI 93 kw/h area by the sounds of it

 

[Bodhi Roach]

none of this advice is applicable to him cause i assume hes in the EFSI 93 kw/h area by the sounds of it

Hi AB, thanks alot, you've given us something to google

appreciate it

 

[apartmentblower]

Hi AB, thanks alot, you've given us something to google

appreciate it

i cant seem to find it ATM but there is a chart if you search on google that shows exactly what municipalities have what bylaw in the lower mainland and what powers they have to shut u down. i always run across it but cant remember the search keyword at the moment

 

[JustanotherDave]

The 93kwhr number is Province wide...but it's up to the city/town to request the list of users over 93wkhr under the new law. It isn't automatic. They can then give you 24hr notice of an "electrical safety" inspection.

 

[Jnugg]

So this 93kwh deal....what does it mean...that you're allowed up to 93kw/hours a month?

If so I don't see how a house could even be powered for simple living.

I'd like to think you can get away with 2000-4000w of light ran 12hrs a day for 30 days.

How much power does your A/C unit use,your refridgerator,heater,water heater,common house lights etc etc.....it will be more than 93kwh I bet that.

using 1 400w HID ran for 12 hours a day for 30 days would use up 4.8kw a day or 144kw a month......so 5 kwh a day for lighting and 144kwh a month...that's way more then 97kwh.

I don't know how it goes up there in Canada but I'd think you can run 2k-4k no prob.

 

[*mistress*]

I was wondering about power usage in BC Canada,

How much is too much?

There are some wacky seizure laws up here and they are pretty scary.

Does anyone know what the average daily KW use is on a modern present day house? Approximately 2000sqft with 3.5 baths and 5 bedrooms

These days with sealed rooms and such, its easy to rack up the power bill on A/C, pumps, filter fans, scrubbers, Dehums etc.... and it leaves a paper trail for the green team to follow up.

How much power can one use every day/month and stay off the LEO radar?

Do they need more than just a high power bill to come pay you a visit?

2000^2'+5 bed rooms is a nice sized home.

that should be @ least 200 amp service entrance. old homes had 60-100 amps. most modern homes use 200 amps or more.

modern household appliances draw lots of power.

blender: 500-1000 watts (w)
coffeemaker: 500-1200 w
microwave oven: 1000-1500 w
range: 8000-14000 w
range top, separate: 4000-8000 w
computer, monitor, printer: 200-600 w
heater, wall mounted: 1000-4500 w
refrigerator, frostless: 400-600 w

sample of chart from this source: wiring simplified (good basic reference book to have handy)

this is not even taking into account the shops people have @ their homes. power tools, kilns, servers, home offices, etc. draw lots of power.

it may be underestimated, or taken for granted, how much consumption of energy occurs in avg. household. lot of it is wasteful, and can be more efficiently used. read news re 'energy consumption', or trends. only more energy is being used as times goes on, though now people are encouraged to be 'energy efficient', questionable whether they are or not.

all electronics w/ clocks (or 'counters', in electronics), draw leakage current. turn these off when not in use. dont really need 20 clocks in a house.
of course, different lights draw different current. replace all lights w/ cfl's and such.

if just moving in to home, should already know what will be gardening w/. if garden is not set up yet, run same load until garden is ready, then turn off other appliances and substitute for garden power. will have same load since day 1.

unless running 160 amps (80% of total load of 200 amp service entrance), or 80 amps (80% of total load of 100 amp service entrance), should be ok.

80i*120e=9600p watts. this is i (current) *(multiplied by) e (voltage)= p (power).

this is ohm's law pie chart:

hope this helps. enjoy your garden!
*edit*
'e' is used as symbol for voltage (v) as well.

 

[Bodhi Roach]

Thanks mistress,

The real issue here in Canada is what apartment blower mentioned, its real scary,

If your daily usage is more than 93KW/H per day, they can give you a 24 hour notice to do a fire/electrical safety inspection at your premises.

EFSI 93
Electrical Fire Safety Inspection

So add up all the legit power usages which may be about 30-40KW/H per day for a lived in up to date house with all the bells and whistles then add on top, your hobby power usage, OMG, easy to exceed and asking for a knock on the door.

Their tactics are working.
Better to be safe than sorry is a good philosophy in some cases
They will try to seize your home if you own it.

 

[*mistress*]

Thanks mistress,
If your daily usage is more than 93KW/H per day

thats 9300 watts operating 24/7.

a 1k is 1000w. when it burns for 1 hour, it consumes 1 kw/hr. when it burns for 12 hrs, it consumes 12 kw/hrs.(a)

assuming a support system of 1000 additional watts for ac, fans, timers, etc., that run during lights on 1k*12=12 kw/hrs.(b)

assume also, for ed./ent. purposes only, that 1/4, or 500w of energy is needed during lights out in flowering area; for heat extraction, fans, etc.
thats .5*12=6 kw/hrs.(c)

assuming a veg area required another 600w. 400w lamp,+ fans, timers, etc.
thats .6*18=10.8 (lights on veg)(d)

assuming 200w of fans during veg lights out in 18/6 cycle, .2*6=1.2 kw/hrs.(e)

so, for 1 day of running a 1k garden, w/ a separate 400 watt veg light, the kw/hr usage may be approximately,

(a)+(b)+(c)+(d)+(e),

or

12+12+6+10.8+1.2=50 kw/hrs per day.

there is some cusion there, but there is also room to reduce consumption. less pumps (handwater).

possibly running less veg light. cfl's work well.

can probably use less power during lights out, but some like to keep air flow going 24/7.

~1/2 of the daily rationing by the owners. doable. a 1k bloom w/ a 400w veg can surely be effective in a garden setting.

can also just run very small veg lights, and do 2k in flower. all balances out per day.

just do the math. do the math on necessary appliances. unplug all units w/ digi clocks. turn off comp, etc. still have 43 kw/hrs left w/ this rudimentary example. plenty to function in modern home.

hope this helps. enjoy your garden!

 

[Bodhi Roach]

You rock mistress,

TYVM

thats 9300 watts operating 24/7.

a 1k is 1000w. when it burns for 1 hour, it consumes 1 kw/hr. when it burns for 12 hrs, it consumes 12 kw/hrs.(a)

assuming a support system of 1000 additional watts for ac, fans, timers, etc., that run during lights on 1k*12=12 kw/hrs.(b)

assume also, for ed./ent. purposes only, that 1/4, or 500w of energy is needed during lights out in flowering area; for heat extraction, fans, etc.
thats .5*12=6 kw/hrs.(c)

assuming a veg area required another 600w. 400w lamp,+ fans, timers, etc.
thats .6*18=10.8 (lights on veg)(d)

assuming 200w of fans during veg lights out in 18/6 cycle, .2*6=1.2 kw/hrs.(e)

so, for 1 day of running a 1k garden, w/ a separate 400 watt veg light, the kw/hr usage may be approximately,

(a)+(b)+(c)+(d)+(e),

or

12+12+6+10.8+1.2=50 kw/hrs per day.

there is some cusion there, but there is also room to reduce consumption. less pumps (handwater).

possibly running less veg light. cfl's work well.

can probably use less power during lights out, but some like to keep air flow going 24/7.

~1/2 of the daily rationing by the owners. doable. a 1k bloom w/ a 400w veg can surely be effective in a garden setting.

can also just run very small veg lights, and do 2k in flower. all balances out per day.

just do the math. do the math on necessary appliances. unplug all units w/ digi clocks. turn off comp, etc. still have 43 kw/hrs left w/ this rudimentary example. plenty to function in modern home.

hope this helps. enjoy your garden!

 

[apartmentblower]

i think this rule is really fucked and while previously i used to say no-no to people who bypassed the meter, i dont look down on it anymore. not that id ever do it myself because lots of busts are because of meter routing, but what u gonna do except run a deisel genny?

 

[sparky101]

Your best bet to eliminate the 93KWHr days in the Lower Mainland/Vancouver is buy a natural gas generator. Pretty basic to attach the manifold in most of the homes and commercial premises. There is no way to tell how NG is being used. Fireplaces, furnaces, stoves, hot water tanks, saunas, bbqs, pools, hot-tubs, dryers, etc all can be powered with NG. Check Ebay, get an awesome deal for 10KW NG generator. They are a bit pricey for the gas consumption, but so is electricity when you're paying it and wanting to pay. Seen a brand new GENERAC Guardian 100KVA NG genset with less than 100 hrs sell for $10,000. There is basic maintenance with the generator, but what doesn' t need maintenance...lol. Easy to duct exhaust and can be pretty quiet with insulated room around genset. If you're only using lights 12 hours or 18 hours a day, then consider a NG generator.

sparky101

 

[basilfarmer]

hi, I found a Newspaper article that may be helpful. Though its 2006, It still sheds some light. Sorry I dont have a magic answer beyond that; except if you are commercial, renting would be a far better option i guess. Its really silly; you cant grow an indoor garden, but they can steal your house. Who's the real crooks? Good luck, stay safe; and for God's sakes, dont anyone lose their house over some plants. --b

BC Hydro: 18,000 grow-ops suspected

Nearly 18,000 homes in B.C. -- about the same number of residences as in all of West Vancouver -- use suspiciously high amounts of electricity, often a telltale sign of a marijuana growing operation.

By The Vancouver Sun
August 31, 2006

Nearly 18,000 homes in B.C. -- about the same number of residences as in all of West Vancouver -- use suspiciously high amounts of electricity, often a telltale sign of a marijuana growing operation.

Under provincial legislation introduced last spring, municipalities can request a list from BC Hydro of all addresses with abnormally high power consumption -- making it easier for police and city inspectors to target growing operations.

Abnormal consumption is defined as any residence that uses more than 93 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity per day (the average home uses 31 kWh a day).

In July, The Vancouver Sun filed a freedom of information request with BC Hydro asking how many of its residential customers fit that definition. The reply: 17,900. In comparison, there are 17,299 homes in West Vancouver. Hydro said it was unable to provide a city-by-city breakdown of where the high-consumption homes are located, because it has not yet produced any such lists for municipalities.

But a rough estimate based on each city's share of B.C.'s population suggests there could be 2,500 high-consumption homes in Vancouver, 1,700 in Surrey and 900 in Burnaby.
And Delta -- which has just eight officers in its entire drug section -- could soon be getting a list of about 450.

Sgt. Harj Sidhu, head of the Delta police drug section, said dealing with that volume of tips will be a challenge.

"Is it going to be easy? No," he said. "Obviously that's going to mean we'll have to come up with some systematic approach to deal with those numbers. We're going to have to start whittling that list down."

Sidhu said the drug unit may require extra officers to tackle the list or could risk "burnout" among his staff.

Vancouver police spokesman Const. Howard Chow agreed the lists could pose a challenge.
"Undoubtedly, if the numbers are huge, it will take a while to get through them," he said.
Growing operations require massive amounts of electricity. But until recently, BC Hydro, citing privacy legislation, would only release information on a home's electricity consumption to police or municipal inspectors if they already had an address under investigation.

Under the new law, Hydro and other electricity providers will be required to provide -- to any city that asks for it -- a list of all addresses in their jurisdiction with high consumption, plus two years' billing records for each address.

Sidhu said he hopes those billing records will help police decide which of the hundreds of addresses to target -- since the largest growing operations also use the most electricity.
"Logically speaking, that's the only way we'd be able to deal with it," he said.

Hydro and the police caution that not all homes with high electricity consumption are growing operations. Hot tubs and swimming pools, for example, can cause increased electricity use.

BC Hydro spokeswoman Elisha Moreno said the utility will provide municipalities with a software tool to help them interpret the data -- by, for example, identifying consumption patterns that are consistent with winter baseboard heating.

Moreno said the utility has so far received only one request for consumption data from a municipality and should be sending out its first list of addresses within the next month.
She wouldn't identify which municipality had made the request.

While police will have access to the electricity consumption lists, the information can also be used by city inspectors and fire departments to shut down growing operations without a criminal investigation.

[email protected]
© (c) CanWest MediaWorks Publications Inc

 

[sparky101]

With all those potential locations, and these are individuals who are paying their power bills. The ones not getting checked are pretty much ones using generators or bypasses. With that list, may take a few years to check on them all....

sparky101

 

[apartmentblower]

thats 9300 watts operating 24/7.

wait ... is that right?

93 kw/h per day equal to 3875w run 24/7.....

93 kw/h / 24 hrs = 3.875 kw

3.875 kw = 3875 watts



i cant understand the rest of your post but what i posted is the amount of watts you can run total 24 hrs a day in the 93 kw/h zone