How I Loved Two Good Girls to Death

[Ananas_Comosus]

Mods, if this is not the appropriate forum, please feel free to move this to a proper place.

Have you ever had a computer running to spec and performing as it should but kept tweaking till you had to do a full reinstall to sort out unknown issues you created? Have you had a friend give you a phone to fix and after you had it sorted you kept "optimizing" till you bricked it? Have you ever loved a plant to death? If you empathize please read and share your own experiences.

The purpose of this thread is:

1. document two plants that were performing as champions before my interventions eventually killed them
2. Record what I did wrong so don't make the same mistakes
3. Provide a safe space for other growers to memorialize those good ones whose only fault was having us as parents

Summary
These were bag seeds of unknown genetics. I am in Jamaica so it's reasonable to assume they had a good amount of sativa stock in them. I germinated the first seed on or about March 19 and displayed whorled phyllotaxy (3 leaves per node) and the second a week later:

Week 1 Plant #2

Week 2, Plant #2

This is plant # 3 that was germinated a week after #2.

Week 3
Plants growing out nicely. Immediate leaf miner damage on lowest leaves but good otherwise. Whorled Phyllotaxy continuing on Plant #2, really looking forward to see how this particular plant progresses.

Plant #2

Plant #3

 

[Ananas_Comosus]

Fast forward to week 7.
Rain throughout this week has made the plants shoot up and out. Plant #3 is a week younger than #2 and was lagging behind for a while but it has now overtaken #2. Despite having a split trunk, the top nodes have grown out to a couple feet. The plants are now bigger than the plants from Grow #2 at harvest so I am looking forward to see what the yield on these will be. Plant #3 is still noticeably lighter green than #2. Supplemented feed today with 5 ml/gallon Recharge.

Plant #2

View attachment 20220508_083323.jpg

Plant#3
The previous week I had split the main stem while pinning down a secondary stem. I wrapped it with plumbing tape and it showed no signs of being disturbed by that throughout the rest of the grow:

View attachment 20220508_083141.jpg

 

[Ananas_Comosus]

Week 8
Plants really looking good and happy to me . The roots are sucking much more water out of the pots than my previous grow and I am giving them a gallon every two days now. They wilted slightly a couple days this week because I didn't realise how much water they were using. Supplemented feed yesterday with Recharge and Cytokin, and foliar spray of same solution this morning. Both plants started showing pistils a couple weeks back but now both are full furred out. Plant #2, the one with whorled phyllotaxy, has red and white pistils; I am not sure of the significance of that, if any.

Plant #2

Plant #3

Video

 

[Ananas_Comosus]

Week 11
Extracted from my grow diary:
"Plants chugging along. Supplemented feed yesterday with Recharge. Trying powdered nutrients this week with a relatively high P fertiliser. Trichomes popping up on Plant #2. This grow is different from Test Grow #2, during early development of the grow there was substantial rainfall, the plants are significantly bigger and developing more slowly. Apart from the rain, I suspect that has to do with the fact my previous grow started and ended in short days (less than 12 hours light). This grow is experiencing increasing light, with daylight now 13+ hours."

I believe this was where my problems started. My tap water has a naturally high, unamended EC of 1.2 so without any added nutrients the plants are getting less available "free" pure water. My EC+ feed started at around 2.3 and went to 3.2 starting around weeks 10-11. I feed a DIY mix of a 2 part calcium nitrate and MKP based knockoff of a commercial nutrient line. The guide I was following a recommended spiralling up to a one week feed at EC+ of 3.2 and then scaling back till flush. I messed up and fed at 3.2 EC+ for more like two weeks. For the first 3.2 EC+ week I went off script and tried a water soluble ammoniacal nitrogen based 15-30-15 powder that I believed started the burn and overfeed on the plants. I also started over-watering in my zeal to get monster yield .

Plant #2

Plant #3

 

[Ananas_Comosus]

Week 12

Grow Diary Extract:
"Sprayed plants with diatomaceous earth and and a few drops of eucalyptus oil to control an aphid outbreak on plant #2. While spraying a few bugs I didn't realise were feeding on the plants dropped or flew out, mainly leafhoppers. Will need to retreat with same mix if not phytotoxic. I think the aphid outbreak was at least in part a result of changing to granular feed that has majority ammoniacal nitrogen. I have also noted some reverse canoeing of a few leaves on both plants. Otherwise, plants looking fairly well. Plant #3 is slowly developing a nice show of pistil rich bud sites, future growth will be interesting. Plant #2 is fattening up nicely which is why the aphid outbreak was so disheartening and had to be dealt with."

I had mixed results with DE and never used eucalyptus oil. I also omitted that I used a sticker spreader that will strip plant leaves if used in too high a dose i.e. 2+ ml/gallon. Why did I think it would work? Why would I use an unproven formula on such well developed ladies? Why, if the outbreak was on plant #2, would I use the unproven mix on both plants? The comment about the canoeing leaves was, I believe, the plants telling me about root issues with water.

Plant #2

Plant #3

I had to stand in pot to capture this magnificence:

 

[Ananas_Comosus]

Week 13

Grow Diary Extract:
"Partial to total crop failure. I have culled plant # 2 and plant # 3 doesn't look like it will survive the week. Throughout last week the plants were not responding to water as usual. They were progressively wilting with water under them. On Friday I did a foliar treatment with an Azadirachtin (Neem-X) product for the increasing aphids and Saturday I fed with the mix from the previous week with added EMAS (Em1 activated solution). The amount of EM was at least 50ml/gallon and possibly 100ml/gallon. When I fed the plants, plant # 2 was fully wilted and plant # 3 was partially wilted. By Sunday morning they had not responded to the water and plant # 2 was even more wilted and plant # 3 was basically the same. Later in the day I attempted a clear water flush which probably sealed the fate of plant # 2. The recommended dosage for EMAS varies by source but I think I did the 1:00 dose and if not it was 1:50. I do know that I was feeding at too high EC for too long i.e. I was to have done 3.2 EC for one week. I did 3.2+ EC for at least ten days and more likely 2 weeks. The reasons for this are many but the main one was just loving the plants to death. At the start of this grow I made a point of trying to avoid that but here I am. My tap water has a naturally high, unamended EC of 1.2 so without and added nutrients the plants are getting less available "free" pure water. It has been my practice to make my mix to the required EC and then add supplements (without checking EC after). But those supplements generally increase EC putting me way over what my feed chart recommends. For the past month I have been slowly starving the plants of water. Retrospectively, the early signs were there, most notably clawing and downward canoeing of the leaves. I also made the point to follow the feed guide and I have not.

To say I am disappointed is an understatement but the lessons learnt will be invaluable for future grows. I thank the plants for their service."

Plant #2

I guess I was so depressed I didn't even take pics of plant #3 .

 

[Ananas_Comosus]

Grow Diary Extracts:

Week 17
"Plant still hanging on. Despite several treatment for aphids with an Azadirachtin spray, this plant is still infested with them. I don't want to use any overly toxic pesticide so I am going to have to find another option for future grows."

Week 19
"Culled plant. Overfeeding, over-watering, pest infestation, and fungus/mould eventually did in this plant. When I went to cut it down I saw a small pile of wood dust at the base of the plant. When I cut into the stem with dust on it I saw some kind of bug moving around. In hindsight I should have taken pictures to properly identify the bug."


In spite of my hopes, plant #3 was culled 2 weeks after taking these pics.

 

[Ananas_Comosus]

So what did I learn:

1. Grow
2. Learn
3. Make a feeding plan and stick to it
4. Measure your inputs and check your meter values
5. Leave the plants alone
6. Don't over water
7. Let the plants be
8. Don't over feed, this is a cliche but also Truth when it comes to plants and nutrients, beyond a certain point, less is absolutely more
9. Just let them grow, damn it
10. Don't over react
11. Divert your growing energy into other plants
12. Do more research
13. Test unproven feed, root drenches, foliar sprays etc.
14. Catch and reuse rain water
15. Reread and amend this list
16. Enjoy the Grow

 

[goingrey]

Great attitude to have, to learn from your mistakes and to let others learn from them as well!

3.2 EC does sound like a double dose. Probably the bugs had something to do with the plant's demise as well.

 

[Creeperpark]

I would have shaded the growing container from the Sun more. Even on cool Sunny days plastic pots collect a lot of heat. I have to mulch the tops of the pots and blocked the Sun off the containers with shade clothe for almost the whole grow when outdoors. As the temps got to 103f, 39c for a period of time I had to shade all the plants completely. When the soil temps rise the plants transpire extra water and the extra water pushes more fertilizer through the plant causing problems. The plant above was over feed and that's why the bugs attacked it. You can't see heat and that is the problem. Sorry for your loss.

 

[Tulku]

go again and nail those girls!! great honest thread my friend

 

[Wall]

you will have a nice harvest!!!
no Pb

 

[Creeperpark]

Lastly, for "unshaded outdoor" plants in pots above ground, you need about 4ft of soil all the way around the plant stem to buffer the heat. Those plants would have faired much better planted directly in the ground. The last plants are suffering from overwatering issues too.

When you have plants that die, always pull them out of the pot or dig it out of the ground and investigate thoroughly to find the reason. When the first plant shows problems pull it out of the pot "then and don't wait" to get the answers and find out what's going on. Dying plants can be helpful if you learned from their death. If you don't learn what happens exactly you may repeat the mistake.

 

[Ananas_Comosus]

Great attitude to have, to learn from your mistakes and to let others learn from them as well!

3.2 EC does sound like a double dose. Probably the bugs had something to do with the plant's demise as well.

I really setup the dominoes of destruction with these girls and made a weak juicy meal for the bugs. One of my biggest issues is how high my tap water EC is at 1.1-1.2. I knew the water was very hard but I was shocked when I saw how high the EC was. Breaking the alkalinity with sulphuric acid based pH-down has helped greatly but of course that doesn't help with EC. Striking the balance between feeding and overfeeding is rough when you have the mentality I have to keep on 'optimizing'

 

[Ananas_Comosus]

go again and nail those girls!! great honest thread my friend

Forward ever, Backward Never! Peace Be the Journey. Truth.

you will have a nice harvest!!!
no Pb

"no Pb" . Lol Google was not my friend with that one.

 

[Ananas_Comosus]

I would have shaded the growing container from the Sun more. Even on cool Sunny days plastic pots collect a lot of heat. I have to mulch the tops of the pots and blocked the Sun off the containers with shade clothe for almost the whole grow when outdoors. As the temps got to 103f, 39c for a period of time I had to shade all the plants completely. When the soil temps rise the plants transpire extra water and the extra water pushes more fertilizer through the plant causing problems. The plant above was over feed and that's why the bugs attacked it. You can't see heat and that is the problem. Sorry for your loss.

With my current grow I have dialled the feed down significantly and they are doing well... so far.

Lastly, for "unshaded outdoor" plants in pots above ground, you need about 4ft of soil all the way around the plant stem to buffer the heat. Those plants would have faired much better planted directly in the ground. The last plants are suffering from overwatering issues too.

When you have plants that die, always pull them out of the pot or dig it out of the ground and investigate thoroughly to find the reason. When the first plant shows problems pull it out of the pot "then and don't wait" to get the answers and find out what's going on. Dying plants can be helpful if you learned from their death. If you don't learn what happens exactly you may repeat the mistake.

In ground is the dream... You don't want to see my ground and the monster limestone rocks and hard pan clay I have a compost pile working on to amend a spot but it isn't ready yet.

The over watering issue is another thing that I am working on but now with my current grow sometimes I wonder if I am going too long before watering. That said, I have never seen those plants wilt in the slightest so hopefully I am dialling in properly.

 

[iTarzan]

Creeperpark is saying to still plant the girls in the pot in your soil mix and then dig a hole big enough to bury the entire pot with plant in it. You have black containers to. The black is a heat sink. You need to paint them white so they reflect the sun. I am not sure heat did it because there are people growing in black pots all over in the outdoor threads. I tend to agree with creeper park though. Plus it could only help to reduce heat in the root zone.

Did you check your ph when you mixed your feeds? This sad situation is following along the bad ph play book. They start of good in new soil mix. They move along but start having little problems. They stall, get some bug issues and then just start to fade yet keep your hopes up for a turn around. Then about 3/4 the way through flowering they ph issue finally kills them. Root aphids cause this slow death scenario too.

If you had bad ph and too much heat in the root zone your plants die a slow death. The buds were forming, things looked hopeful, weeks from harvest and then nothing. IT SUCKS!

 

[Creeperpark]

Creeperpark is saying to still plant the girls in the pot in your soil mix and then dig a hole big enough to bury the entire pot with plant in it. You have black containers to. The black is a heat sink. You need to paint them white so they reflect the sun. I am not sure heat did it because there are people growing in black pots all over in the outdoor threads. I tend to agree with creeper park though. Plus it could only help to reduce heat in the root zone.

Did you check your ph when you mixed your feeds? This sad situation is following along the bad ph play book. They start of good in new soil mix. They move along but start having little problems. They stall, get some bug issues and then just start to fade yet keep your hopes up for a turn around. Then about 3/4 the way through flowering they ph issue finally kills them. Root aphids cause this slow death scenario too.

If you had bad ph and too much heat in the root zone your plants die a slow death. The buds were forming, things looked hopeful, weeks from harvest and then nothing. IT SUCKS!

I'm not saying bury the pot and all in the ground. I'm saying those plants are in-ground plants. Meaning they would do much better planted in the ground instead of in a restricted container. I don't recommend planting "large plastic" pots in the ground. The reason is down where the drainage holes are, in the ground, there may not be adequate drainage. Plus soil chemistry that deep in the ground is not suitable and the backwash could cause problems.

One-gallon pots up to 3-gallon plastic and be buried in the ground to help moderate the heat and hold the water longer or can be put in mounds. However, when you water these types of plants you need to pull the pot out of the ground to water them and then return it back to the hole. Never water the pot in the hole for the best results. Thank you for sharing some helpful info friend.

 

[Creeperpark]

Don't get the wrong message, always use outdoor garden soil when growing outdoors and not indoor soil outdoors. There's a big difference between the two and their uses.

Indoor potting soil dries out too quickly to be used outdoors, while outdoor potting soil retains too much moisture to be used indoors. IF you don't respect this rule it can come back and bite you on the ass in the end.

 

[iTarzan]

Sorry about misinterpreting your statement Creeperpark. I jumped there because as a longtime guerrilla grower it is sometimes better or necessary to dig a hole and line it with a tarp or plastic (with drainage holes) or bury the whole pot (with ample drainage holes or the bottom cut off). If you just dig a hole and don't line it you get invasive roots from surrounding weeds. They take water and nutrients from your marijuana plant. That comes into play sometimes. In very dry areas if you water your plant without a liner a portion of the water gets absorbed away from your plant.
If the natural soil is good I dig the hole amend a bit and plant the plant. If I have to dig out a bowl in poor soil and fill with soil then I add a liner or bury the pot.
His are in his backyard though. He doesn't have to worry about maximizing every drop of water and nutrients he lugs out to a guerrilla site.

The drainage theory is not making sense to me. If I put a pot in the ground or line the hole and have drainage holes and you dig a hole and fill with a soil mix our bottoms of the holes have the same unusable native soil. We are both draining into the same substrate. Mine just goes through drainage holes or a cutoff bottom. Yours doesn't.
In very dry areas some people line with a tarp and don't have drainage holes so they keep every drop of water in the hole.