@7 or @5
Do you get it or are you just pretending to not get it because you love your E.C.?
Just as accurate....unless you don't understand the difference
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How do you measure PPM's?
- Thread starter calverde
- Start date
@7 or @5
Do you get it or are you just pretending to not get it because you love your E.C.?
Just as accurate....unless you don't understand the difference
Scottyboycx
Member
I agree with some extent with freezerboy. BUT within your own garden a ppm will be fine but when u start reading that ppl are using so n so ppms and u wanna follow same plan but the guy didnt say which conversion his ppm meter is?? can get very confusing i know i been there. Now i have a wand that does ppm/EC/tds and CF
With one EC meter there is no confusion. For some, hydro can be be complicated, why make it more so.
Scottyboycx
Member
A PPM within your own garden learning your plants will serve just as good as an EC meter. Only when trying to follow other ppls nutrient regimes do they become a problem.I'm not saying he shouldnt get a EC i'm just saying a ppm aint useless
I think people telling others what ppm to grow at is a big mistake to begin with. I'll often see people tell others "Never go above 1000ppm" or whatever value they like.....for their garden.
OK...first off...NEITHER tells you EXACTLY what's in your water. So, let's be clear about that right from the beginning. Like a few said here...you have to evaporate the water and do an analysis to know that. An EC reading is "an educated guess" of your total nutes dissolved in the water.
EC, PPM, TDS, they're ALL a guess. All it does is "measure" the salt ions in the water by EC (electrical conductivity).
To put it simply...all the nutes (metal salts mostly) a plant uses are in the water. They each add to the ions in the water. You can measure the TOTAL charge (conductivity) added by all the nute salts all mixed together. This is the EC (electrical conductivity).
It won't tell you you have 23% N or 20% K or if you have calcium or magnesium. To know this, you have to rely on your nute manufacturers "recipe". PPM is simply a mathamatical formula applied to the EC value.
With my meter it's .47-.50. I take off 1000 from my PPM number to get EC. If you know your manufacturers formula, you can derive the EC the meter used to get PPM. It's just a formula, if you know one side, you can get the other.
Since EC is the "same" in all meters...when asking for help/giving advice, the use of EC is needed for others to help. Get used to mentally converting to EC, just move the decimal point over 3 places. A PPM of 500 becomes .5, 1230 becomes 1.23...it's easy. Go to the manufacturers web site to get the conversion factor.
Did I make sense?
EC, PPM, TDS, they're ALL a guess. All it does is "measure" the salt ions in the water by EC (electrical conductivity).
To put it simply...all the nutes (metal salts mostly) a plant uses are in the water. They each add to the ions in the water. You can measure the TOTAL charge (conductivity) added by all the nute salts all mixed together. This is the EC (electrical conductivity).
It won't tell you you have 23% N or 20% K or if you have calcium or magnesium. To know this, you have to rely on your nute manufacturers "recipe". PPM is simply a mathamatical formula applied to the EC value.
With my meter it's .47-.50. I take off 1000 from my PPM number to get EC. If you know your manufacturers formula, you can derive the EC the meter used to get PPM. It's just a formula, if you know one side, you can get the other.
Since EC is the "same" in all meters...when asking for help/giving advice, the use of EC is needed for others to help. Get used to mentally converting to EC, just move the decimal point over 3 places. A PPM of 500 becomes .5, 1230 becomes 1.23...it's easy. Go to the manufacturers web site to get the conversion factor.
Did I make sense?
CrumpleZone
Member
Measuring PPM's is the easy part. You have to catch them first. Good luck getting them to sit still while u fumble with your tape measure.
Originally Posted by FreezerBoy
No pen provides PPM values. That takes chemical analysis. When 500=784 but 550 is more than 750, that's the definition of inaccurate. The only thing you can count on with a "PPM" reading is you know it's wrong. Every time. Guaranteed.
Why the pathological fear of superior equipment?
I just want everyone to know what FreezerBoy means by that. If a European guy with a .7 conversion talks with an American with a .5 conversion...they don't match up. In that case...the Europeans 700PPM is equal to the Americans 500PPM. It makes a difference.
If you each convert...YOUR...PPM to EC and talk in EC, you WILL match. Both the American 500PPM and the European 700PPM are the same EC... 0.5 after the conversion.
Clearer?
It's not "superior equipment"...it's more "consistency in unit of measurement".
Just talk in EC folks...make it easy for everyone.
No pen provides PPM values. That takes chemical analysis. When 500=784 but 550 is more than 750, that's the definition of inaccurate. The only thing you can count on with a "PPM" reading is you know it's wrong. Every time. Guaranteed.
Why the pathological fear of superior equipment?
I just want everyone to know what FreezerBoy means by that. If a European guy with a .7 conversion talks with an American with a .5 conversion...they don't match up. In that case...the Europeans 700PPM is equal to the Americans 500PPM. It makes a difference.
If you each convert...YOUR...PPM to EC and talk in EC, you WILL match. Both the American 500PPM and the European 700PPM are the same EC... 0.5 after the conversion.
Clearer?
It's not "superior equipment"...it's more "consistency in unit of measurement".
Just talk in EC folks...make it easy for everyone.
What type of reading are you looking for when looking at PPM's or EC's? What are you using this information for? How are they affected? I guess I'm not sure what PPM's and what EC's are. Parts Per Million, and EC=measuring salt content right?
Thanks for helping with this subject.
Thanks for helping with this subject.
I can tell you what I do. I use the grow-check ppm meter to make life easier for me. Before I got the grow check I was just using a ph test pen thing-E. I used to have my reservoir marked on the sides with 20-25-30-35-40 gallon hash marks. Once I made nutes at 20 gals with the normal ml per liter I figured out what that ppm was. Now, all i do is put say, 15 or so gals in and then measure my nutes. I fill the res until i get the desired ppm's..now I have less guess work. It is also a great gauge when in veg, to hard veg, to flower. I can gradually raise my ppms according to what I see the plant needs.
Exactly! But what some people is saying is that cm are superior to inches and we're supposed to buy it.
You're correct in the first paragraph but, EC, "PPM" and "TDS" are not guesses. EC is a precise measurement, "PPM" and "TDS" are non existent bullshit.
We look for movement of the numbers over time along with those of pH. EC and pH SHOULD move in opposite directions as nutes are acidic. More nutes = more acid = lower pH. For this reason, EC and pH move in opposite directions. EC up, pH down is too rich (drinking water faster than food, food builds up, pH drops) EC down, pH up is too lean (drinking food faster than water, food levels drop, pH climbs)
EC is Electrical Conductivity. "PPM" is NOT parts per million. It's ECx: 500, 640, 650, 700, 720, 768, 784 or a couple other numbers so silly I can't remember them anymore. Plants are illiterate, they don't have a choice, they don't care that "PPM" is bogus nonsense. We however, have a choice. We are not required to choose illiteracy over knowledge. Whatever a "PPM" pen will do, an EC pen will do better, faster, more accurately and will be understood the world over regardless of language.
You've forgotten at least 7 other conversion scales. Hanna users have a 75% chance of being misunderstood between themselves alone as Hanna uses at least four different scales.
A plane that won't fly, a boat that wont float, a match that wont light are all examples of inferior equipment. Any product incapable of it's advertised function is an inferior product. A "PPM" pen is incapable of measuring PPM. It's impossible. It cannot perform it's advertised function. That makes it an inferior product. If you don't like the word inferior, substitute: fraud, rip off, scam, swindle, sham, hoax, fake, snake oil...
I said it before and I say it again, there's no excuse for "PPM" or "TDS" in Hydro when EC is available.
I strongly urge everybody to only buy PPM pens.....because it's funny to see how it effects people. Plus they work every bit as good and are every bit as accurate.....just make sure not to ask freezerboy what ppm he would recommend.
We get it, you bought a bogus piece of inferior equipment and need to justify being ripped off. Sorry for your loss.
lol, what I get is that you come across as a rude person who puts a lot of energy into making false silly claims. So you go on hating a tool that everybody else on the planet seems to be able to use with no problems.
EC may be a precise measurement...but it doesn't tell you what's in your mixture. It tells you there are X many ions...but not which ones. So in reality...what does EC tell you other than you have "too much" or "not enough"...in TOTAL? These guys who mix all kinds of shit...a base + 5-10 additives...EC won't tell you what's in there. Only if you have too much.
PPM's are derived from the EC. To my knowledge...All PPM/TDS meters are really EC meters that convert EC mathematically to PPM/TDS. If you know your meters conversion...you have an EC meter.
Yes, a PPM/TDS meter IS bullshit because there are too many different ways that manufacturers use to derive PPM/TDS from the EC. I agree with you there. For their STATED purpose...it's a guess.
But, they ARE an EC meter when the display is properly converted. Those Hanna users can convert their PPM to EC with simple math. UNLESS Hanna uses something other than a linear scale. I'm not familiar with how Hanna derives their conversion.
We're getting too technical...I think we both know what the other means. Given the choice, get an EC meter. If you already have a PPM/TDS meter...find out your conversion and use it as an EC meter. Agree?
heres a good page or answers.... http://www.cannabis.com/growing/ph-What_are_the_differences_between_ppm_and_EC.html ..... everything you need to know
Most people who have a ppm meter know what conversation rate they are using, it's a complete non issue. Anybody who is smart enough to give advice about E.C. or PPMs should also be smart enough to figure that out.
Here's the chart from the page farmdalefurr found
