Honolulu PD Demands Cannabis Patients Turn Over Their Firearms

[vta]

Honolulu PD Demands Cannabis Patients Turn Over Their Firearms



Gun-owning cannabis patients in Honolulu, Hawaii aren’t feeling like they’re living in paradise right about now. After all, many recently got a letter from the Honolulu Police Department demanding they either transfer their firearms or turn them over to law enforcement.

The Honolulu Police Department has sent letters to local medical marijuana patients ordering them to “voluntarily surrender” their firearms because of their MMJ status.

The letters, signed by Honolulu Police Chief Susan Ballard, inform patients that they have 30 days upon receipt of the letter to transfer ownership or turn in their firearms and ammunition to the Honolulu Police.

The existence of the notices, first reported early today by Russ Belville at The Marijuana Agenda podcast, was confirmed to Leafly News this afternoon by the Honolulu Police Department.

The startling order comes just three months after the state’s first medical marijuana dispensary opened in Hawaii’s capital city.

The clash between state marijuana laws and federal firearms law—which prohibits all cannabis patients and consumers from purchasing firearms—is a growing point of legal contention in the 29 states with medical marijuana laws. The Honolulu letters, however, may represent the first time a law enforcement agency has proactively sought out state-registered medical marijuana patients and ordered them to surrender their guns.

The law is, unfortunately for these folks, pretty clear.

However, it does illustrate one of the primary problems with gun registration.

What? Gun registration?

Yes. Hawaii is one of the handful of states that maintain a gun registry. They know every lawfully held firearm in the state and who has it. As a result, it was easy for law enforcement to compare the two databases and figure out who owned guns and was getting medical marijuana.

While many medical marijuana advocates are upset over this, I can’t help but be curious just how many support gun registration? How many thought it would be a good idea to create a database of every gun owner in the state?

This is what happens. Gun registrations are really only useful if you want to confiscate someone’s firearms. In this case, the law may support disarming these particular individuals, but let’s face the facts. The law, as it’s being interpreted at the moment, will always support the confiscation of firearms for whatever reason.

It’s entirely possible that we’ll see more of this behavior from other departments in urban, anti-gun cities like Los Angeles or similar communities.

Either way, we can easily point to this as the reason gun registration is a problem. It doesn’t stop crime since criminals don’t register their guns. It only makes it easier for police to find who has guns so they can later take them away for whatever reason. Yes, in this case it’s using a drug that might be legal on the state level but is still recognized as illegal by federal law. What might it be tomorrow?

That’s why every gun registration scheme needs to be fought vehemently. This is the only thing they’re really effective for, after all.

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[moose eater]

Once upon a time, Fish & Wildlife ordered the NW Alaska folks to stop taking geese. When they arrived to enforce their mandate, there were many folks standing side by side, holding geese they'd shot. The officers were faced with the conundrum of either walking away, or arresting/citing everyone present.. pretty much everyone in the area.

In such a spirit, maybe the folks in Honolulu need to stand in a public place, a joint in one hand, and a firearm in the other, and see if the constables are willing to arrest the whole lot of them, or maybe just go home and call it a day.. and a bad idea.

Of course, the geese scenario gave scant justification for use of heavy counter-force, in the way that groups of armed folks with doobies might be interpreted.

But busting one person at a time is way easier than being faced with busting hundreds or thousands.

Send her the Cole memo.. Maybe a good start.

Honolulu, on the other hand, is primarily one big slab of over-priced asphalt in a humid location, over-run with tourists. The MMJ card holders could consider a mass exodus to another part of the Islands where things are a little bit more Old School, too.

 

[St. Phatty]

If there was ever a police chief that deserves a stink bomb in the face ...

for example a water balloon filled with what comes out of your back side when you have food poisoning (wouldn't hurt her but would ruin her day, her uniform, and never be forgotten)

may Police "Chief" Susan Ballard have an unforgettable response to her Fed & Pfizer-inspired delusion.

 

[MJPassion]

This shows why registration of ANY activity is bad.

Owning guns... Not bad...
Using cannabis... Not bad...

Using cannabis while owning guns... BAD!!!

You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Mtn. Nectar]

sounds like the Queen has made a stop on da Islands............

ganj on........

 

[CaptainDankness]

This is why I will never get a medical marijuana card, GW Pharmaceuticals doesn't help either. Schedule 2 marijuana=big pharma marijuana, forget about home grown.

 

[DocTim420]

Ahh the advantage of being old...(as in pre-gun registration)...lol. I have several pistols, a few rifles and shotguns; and just my Beretta and S&W 500 are registered. The rest I bought/obtained before the Feds required registration....ahh, the magic of owning unregistered firearms (Feds & LEO have no idea of their existence).

Yep, it pays to do what it takes to keep one's name name from appearing on silly databases. In fact, I was at the doctors office last month and where the paperwork asked for my Social Security Number and I wrote "declined to state". They informed me that they needed it to update my medical information on the "computer", and I said, "sorry, I am illegal"....lol. No number...not entry in a database.

 

[oldhaole]

I probably will not be too popular with the shoot'em up crowd, but I really don't care.

Though I personally feel the Federal Law regarding gun ownership by MMJ users to be stupid, and the move by the police chief to be grandstanding, after all she has been in charge for what? A week? The law is the law. It is her job to enforce it. End of story.

As a resident of Hawaii I am fine with guns being registered. I am also quite happy with the fact that if you get caught with an unregistered gun you will go to jail. As a result, most crime here is of the unarmed variety. Forbes ranked Honolulu as #3 in their safest cities, and cited our strict gun laws as the reason why.

More than 13,000 people in the US were killed by guns last year. Should they be registered? Just my opinion.... I think so.

 

[MJPassion]

Your right oldhaole,
That's not a popular viewpoint.
Nobody is talking about banning cars yet & they kill way more people than do guns!

When oppressive governing bodies give up their arms, I will also. (Neither will happen, btw)

Until then, I feel it is my duty to protect my family, friends, the weak & the helpless (includung the unarmed) from the oppressive behavior of the powers that are in charge of the earth at the present time.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Gun registrations are really only useful if you want to confiscate someone’s firearms.

Gun registrations prove to be very useful when a murder weapon is recovered and authorities want to know it's ownership.

 

[Snook]

For years I've been sayin :
'they'll want to take the MMJ 'registered users' guns... sooner or later'.

and 'recreational' opens up a whole new avenue..

we need it off the cat 1 federal 'drug' list and on the cat 3 List ??? i hate callin it a drug.. if they knock it down to only cat 2, then we'd need a prescription from a doctor to get it from the drug store, like Valium or Oxis.. another layer of government control

EDIT: Oh! I do like the 'sit/smoke/gun in' idea.. Woodstock (1969) was like that, every one was high in the midst of many state police.. not one drug arrest.. but now, they'd single everyone out and break their balls sooner or later.. on some toll roads here in florida, theyve taken out the toll booths and when/after one goes thru that 'zone' they take your picture and send you a bill for the toll. I go one on my bike, pretty good pic too. My point? they can single each of out if they wanted to for any reason they want.. cant imagine how much up our asses they'll be in 20 years..

 

[trichrider]

this is such a bad precedent
there are other medical states with the lust for your firearms

seems it would violate 4th amendment protections too

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't form 4473 registration itself?

 

[clearheaded]

WOW that is nuts! although because of USA constitution I do not believe its a legal thing to do. however medical cannabis isnt legal either, but still think if they really wanted to fight it they could win. There isnt really a whole lot of hunting done in hawaii from my knowledge, exept wild pigs perhaps? so really no reaason to have a gun, but i am canadian and we usually dont shoot people.

they really just need to outlaw auto weapons, makes zero sense and would be able to stop these crazy mass killings. but never know when folks will have to rise up and take over the white house lol. good luck.

 

[moose eater]

this is such a bad precedent
there are other medical states with the lust for your firearms

seems it would violate 4th amendment protections too

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't form 4473 registration itself?

The NICS check goes through federal channels. The 4473 stays in the possession of the FFL dealer until, or if they close their business, at which time they are required to submit (what used to be hard-copy only, likely still is) to BATFE.

Specifically, there was verbage preventing the info on 4473s from being used for registration purposes, but even 35 years back, folks didn't trust it, and, since it wasn't required registration type paperwork, there were a number of FFL holders who, when they went out of business and submitted their paperwork for storage in what was then a huge Quonset on the East Coast, they somehow had frequent accidents.. A bit of spilled kerosene on the box of forms that inadvertently caught fire, and the boxes of semi-burned forms would be accompanied by a "Gee, we're sorry. One minute the box was by the wood stove, and the next.....Well..."

NOW, however, it's my understanding that due to (the cited reasons being) space, troublesome storage of hard-copy, etc., the surrendered 4473 forms are digitized, and it's been argued that this is a de facto registration. The feds say they're not using it for that, but then the feds have a history of saying LOTS of stuff, too.

Clear as mud, right?

 

[CaptainDankness]

WOW that is nuts! although because of USA constitution I do not believe its a legal thing to do. however medical cannabis isnt legal either, but still think if they really wanted to fight it they could win. There isnt really a whole lot of hunting done in hawaii from my knowledge, exept wild pigs perhaps? so really no reaason to have a gun, but i am canadian and we usually dont shoot people.

they really just need to outlaw auto weapons, makes zero sense and would be able to stop these crazy mass killings. but never know when folks will have to rise up and take over the white house lol. good luck.

Forget the White House we need to take down the CIA, DEA, FBI, NSA, military industrial complex, Federal Reserve and the UN. If anything we need tanks and Apache helicopters.

Guns will just allow us to resist the powers that be like the Afghan people and the second amendment has nothing to do with hunting it's to keep us free and out of the grips of global empires like the British Empire in which we are now part of thanks to crooked politicians all the way back to Abraham Lincoln at the least.

Of course half the nation wants socialism cause they didn't learn from Germany's Socialist Workers Party better known as the Nazi Party. LMAO, Americans truly are stupid....

 

[positivity]

They have updated their stance since it was first brought up. The order to turn in your firearms won't be enforced on current gun permit holders. Future permits for MMJ card holders will be denied per Federal law

 

[armedoldhippy]

Gun registrations prove to be very useful when a murder weapon is recovered and authorities want to know it's ownership.

folks who murder other folks don't USE registered guns; and IF they are stupid enough to do so AND leave it at the crime scene, then they are certainly stupid enough to deserve serious jail time for ignorance alone... JMHO

 

[SierraPadre]

The rationale the court decision gave is very insulting. Addicts and psychos we are?

 

[vta]

Government Begins Gun Confiscation: "Surrender Your Firearms"

Tim Brown — November 29, 2017

Oh, look how government trades the use of something that grows in nature for your rights to keep and bear arms that "shall not be infringed."

Yep, it is the liberal State of Hawaii that is going after users of cannabis.

The Honolulu Police Department has issued an order for medical marijuana users to "surrender your firearms."

Not only is this is a violation of the Fifth Amendment's protections, but since when did cops get to make such a decision?

KITV reports, "In a letter dated November 13th new Chief of police Susan Ballard states card-holders have 30 days to surrender weapons, permits, and ammunition to HPD or to transfer ownership. According to the letter, the only way card-holders can get their weapons back is to get clearance from their doctors."

According to the Honolulu Star, the letter claims, “Your medical marijuana use disqualifies you from ownership of firearms and ammunition.”

Ballard cites Hawaii Revised Statutes, Section 134-7 (a) as the reason for the move. That section reads: “No person who is a fugitive from justice or is a person prohibited from possessing firearms or ammunition under federal law shall own, possess, or control any firearm or ammunition therefore.”

Interesting since people using medical marijuana would be able to do so under law even though "law" should have no governance over a plant in the first place.

Furthermore, these people do not necessarily qualify as a "prohibited" person since Ballard cannot point to a law in which they are in violation of nor can she point to a conviction, something the Fifth Amendment demands before one can lose their rights.

Leafly commented that the letters appear to represent “the first time a law enforcement agency has proactively sought out state-registered medical marijuana patients and ordered them to surrender their guns.”

Here's a copy of the letter.

The letter claimed “a medical doctor’s clearance letter is required for any future firearms applications or returns of firearms from HPD evidence.”

U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled that a ban on gun ownership for medical marijuana users is constitutional.

According to the court, marijuana use remains illegal on the federal level, even if a state exercises the 10th Amendment against the DC beast, but they fail to argue from a position of the Fifth Amendment's protections regarding this.

Form 4473 asks if the would-be firearm purchaser is “an unlawful user of…marijuana.” No one who answers “yes” to that question can purchase a gun.

That's all fine and dandy, but what about those who have already purchased and own their gun? They aren't having to answer diddly squat. Furthermore, if government was actually engaging in the job they are supposed to be engaging in, which is protecting the rights of the people and bringing justice upon evildoers (Roman 13:1-5), then maybe, just maybe violent criminals would be put out of this world through the death penalty and the nonsensical laws we have against plants would be reversed.

Keep in mind those drug laws that so many neo-cons push are nothing more than a means to take your money, engage in no-knock searched and seizures and have resulted in billions of dollars being spent which has only helped to facilitate the black market, enrich those selling marijuana and result in far more dead than marijuana will ever bring about.

This is why the drug war must end and this is only a few examples.

Cannabis has been legalized in 29 states and Washington, DC. Still, in 2011, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms sent a letter to all firearms licensees stating that even if individuals have state-issued medical cannabis cards, it is still illegal for them to own firearms because cannabis is still a Schedule I substance under federal law:

“Any person who uses or is addicted to marijuana, regardless of whether his or her State has passed legislation authorizing marijuana use for medicinal purposes, is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance, and is prohibited by Federal law from possessing firearms and ammunition.”

Absolutely incredible how the central government assumes authority never given to it and rides roughshod over the Tenth Amendment.

However, we know they are doing it because of big money from Big Pharma because cannabis has been used to treat cancer, autism, and a variety of other health issues, including treatment of PTSD for our veterans.

Funny, the same government wants you to trust them as to how to manage your healthcare.

It's interesting how government claims cannabis is not medicine but holds the patent on it, isn't it? What does that tell you?

One thing we know for sure is the feds don't even prosecute people who lie on those ATF forms, or they do only rarely, but how dare you own a gun and use marijuana, even with the permission of the state beast and own a weapon!

Susan Ballard is going beyond the law and taking the law into her own hands. She's about as un-American as one can get.
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[moose eater]

Funny, I don't -feel- "unlawful." At least, not a lot... Maybe only when I think about what some pointy-headed, popsicle-stick-up-his/her-ass, polished-desk-riding individual separated from the real world by plate glass windows and leather-top desk, while swilling down a substantial public salary.. Just during those brief and passing moments do I feel "unlawful.".. And those moments are more and more rare..

This whole schematic dating back decades, of doing memorandums of agreement between local, state, and federal agencies, typically where there just happens to be federal grant money to/for those departments, is getting really OLD.... Like it was already -feeling- old back during the Clinton "100,000 cops on the street" period, when suddenly every cross-roads burb had a "gang problem," cause it paid decently in federal grant dollars for LE to -have- a "gang problem."..

The Form 4473 is a Federal Form. The scheduling of cannabis as a schedule 1 substance in the 1970 CSA was a federal move, brought about by Tricky Dick, in his quest to go after the anti-war crowd (*by Dick's own semi-private admission, I might add).

The new Chief of Police could have chosen to do what the many and various chiefs of police have done in the other locations that have legalized the weed; let the feds worry about their laws, and let the states & municipalities worry about theirs.

Me thinks the new Chief has spent too much time accepting (without question) the federal and other anti-cannabis propaganda, or has some personal axe to grind. Maybe too many federal grants to her newly acquired dept. on the budgetary chopping block?

Some people just have a difficult time giving up an addiction to a profitable drug war, and cringe a bit at the thought of forfeiting the right to be cruel to others not like them.

'Lord of the Flies,' 'Animal Farm,' and other treasures give many an example of the likes of those who seek power, and what happens when they achieve their posts.

Fuck 'em all....