Honduras x Panama

[Common Sense]

Update day 43

Update day 43

Here's a quick update. Had some nutrient issues with the HxP. First, within a day or two, nearly a dozen or so of the large lower fan leaves turned yellow and started to come off. Sure looked like N deficiency to me and I had been on the low side of dosing Bio-Grow and Bio-Bloom. I may also have kept the soil a bit too moist. Always adjust pH to 6.2 to 6.5 (range 6.1 to 6.8).
So I upped the doseage more so for the HxP than the Zamaldelica. Still below the recommended concentration. This has stopped the yellowing. However, now I am afraid to be running into overfertilizing situation....
Here are some shots:
Overview:

Honduras x Panama fem

 

[Common Sense]

HxP

you can see some burnt leaf tips and here is one leaf in particular that looks odd

the Zamaldelica has some leaf discolorization as well

Other than that we are doing not too bad altogether

 

[RED 1]

HxP
View Image


you can see some burnt leaf tips and here is one leaf in particular that looks odd
View Image



the Zamaldelica has some leaf discolorization as well
View Image



Other than that we are doing not too bad altogether
View Image View Image

Looks like phosphorus deficiency to me
Would flush with water first,and,then wait for a day or two before starting with nutrient feeding them again

 

[Tangwena]

I'm growing Purple Honduras x Panama fem and a Panama x Honduras reg in the same bucket and they both have different needs not surprising, but if ones happy the other isn't on the same nutes.
Still budding like crazy but next time separate tubs for each type for sure they are very different plants nutes wise.

 

[Common Sense]

Looks like phosphorus deficiency to me
Would flush with water first,and,then wait for a day or two before starting with nutrient feeding them again

Thanks RED 1. Either that and/or Calcium, Magnesium or Potassium deficiency. Depends on where you read up. For now, I added some fresh soil, checked pH again (6.2), decreased watering and halved fertilizer. Will start to slowly add Mg and Ca, although that is strange, my tap water should have enough of that (EC 350-400µS). That's why I still do suspect watering too much as the root cause of the problem. I water daily, normally not until runoff (fabric grow bags), so I thought it would be ok and I never had the typical drooping leaves.

 

[Common Sense]

Thanks RED 1. Either that and/or Calcium, Magnesium or Potassium deficiency. Depends on where you read up. For now, I added some fresh soil, checked pH again (6.2), decreased watering and halved fertilizer. Will start to slowly add Mg and Ca, although that is strange, my tap water should have enough of that (EC 350-400µS). That's why I still do suspect watering too much as the root cause of the problem. I water daily, normally not until runoff (fabric grow bags), so I thought it would be ok and I never had the typical drooping leaves.

i thought some more about this.
-pH was well controlled with an electronic meter, calibrated. I can pretty much rule out pH imbalances

-the plants are in 16 l root pouch bags with high quality soil
-I have been feeding the BioBizz Grow and Bloom fertilizer, (about half the recommended dose lately)

-the problem with the yellowing and dying lower leaves developed very quickly, i.e. within two or three days
-temperatures were between 20 and 25°C, humidity between 60 and 70%


I think a "normal" deficiency from depleted soil is not so likely in this setting. Wouldn't that develop more slowly? Too wet, soggy soil can cause nutrient lock as well and I guess here could be the problem and explanation why it happened rather quick. It could also maybe explain the rather stunted growth on the Zamaldelica?

I had been watering daily. Slowly, just short of runoff. Nevertheless, I probably kept the soil saturated with water pretty well I guess. I have carelessly started to skip my daily practice of slightly lifting the containers to feel the weight and get an idea of water content.
Does that make sense?

 

[RED 1]

i thought some more about this.
-pH was well controlled with an electronic meter, calibrated. I can pretty much rule out pH imbalances

-the plants are in 16 l root pouch bags with high quality soil
-I have been feeding the BioBizz Grow and Bloom fertilizer, (about half the recommended dose lately)

-the problem with the yellowing and dying lower leaves developed very quickly, i.e. within two or three days
-temperatures were between 20 and 25°C, humidity between 60 and 70%


I think a "normal" deficiency from depleted soil is not so likely in this setting. Wouldn't that develop more slowly? Too wet, soggy soil can cause nutrient lock as well and I guess here could be the problem and explanation why it happened rather quick. It could also maybe explain the rather stunted growth on the Zamaldelica?

I had been watering daily. Slowly, just short of runoff. Nevertheless, I probably kept the soil saturated with water pretty well I guess. I have carelessly started to skip my daily practice of slightly lifting the containers to feel the weight and get an idea of water content.
Does that make sense?

What needs training,is the rooting system,the part you do not get to see
You get to see its progress if you repot 2/3 times when in veg. 16/8,for a few weeks
Good soil,BioBizz AllMix,has enough nutrient contents to assist you with sexually maturing a girl without having to add much
Bad soil shows when in flower,but,it can be avoided with the repots taking place when in veg.
Tha seed is your Babuska baby that needs to turned into a doll

 

[Common Sense]

The learning curve took a steep turn upwards...

The learning curve took a steep turn upwards...

... that's the good news.
The bad news is the nice SCROG grow now looks like a disaster zone. They're not dead yet, but I am having doubts that they will survive.
Lots of leaf yellowing and dying. Pistils on the buds have shriveled up mostly. To me it looks like severe nutrient lookout. But calyxes still look good on the HxP especially.
I have significantly decreased my overwatering and added a bit of Ca, Mg. That didn't improve things, so I gave them a good flush, hoping that would reset possible nutrient buildup or imbalances that may have accumulated in the soil. That may have worsened things. At this point, I think the only option now is to wait and see what happens when the soil gets drier and see whether the roots recover.
If I have to start over at this point I couldn't even buy fresh soil because of the lockdown.
I spare you the pictures, they are embarrassing. On the other hand, it might be of help for other beginners, I don't know.
We are in week 8.
So the take home message is, you can still overwater even if you don't water until runoff?

 

[Ilan]

if you don't have runoff, you will accumulate fertilizer. you actually need to aim for runoff EC (I don't test EC at all). I try to aim a watering schedule of every 3-5 days, with runoff. I moved from the 3 gal post to the 2 gal (30W per plant), so the plants be able to dry the saturated soil in that time frame. another option is to do a full feeding with ferts, and a watering only with no runoff in between. I saw a good thread about this here, mot sure if it this one
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=177807&page=11

Hope the flush will help

 

[RED 1]

... that's the good news.
The bad news is the nice SCROG grow now looks like a disaster zone. They're not dead yet, but I am having doubts that they will survive.
Lots of leaf yellowing and dying. Pistils on the buds have shriveled up mostly. To me it looks like severe nutrient lookout. But calyxes still look good on the HxP especially.
I have significantly decreased my overwatering and added a bit of Ca, Mg. That didn't improve things, so I gave them a good flush, hoping that would reset possible nutrient buildup or imbalances that may have accumulated in the soil. That may have worsened things. At this point, I think the only option now is to wait and see what happens when the soil gets drier and see whether the roots recover.
If I have to start over at this point I couldn't even buy fresh soil because of the lockdown.
I spare you the pictures, they are embarrassing. On the other hand, it might be of help for other beginners, I don't know.
We are in week 8.
So the take home message is, you can still overwater even if you don't water until runoff?

We "read" watering better,when plastic pots and trays,are used for indoor growing
Frequent repots and we get to study,rooting system at the same time
A humble observation

:You can transfer to a fabric pot when sexually mature,if you choose to do so,but,soil has to be "light" on nutrients and Biobizz Light Mix will help roots with finding their way faster so plant can proceed with forming sexy buds

 

[dubi]

Hi Common Sense,

I think the nutrient problem is due to too much moisture in the soil and ph imbalance. Don't water/feed again until the soil is completely dry, and make sure the ph is correct for soil (between 6.5-6.8) in your waterings and feedings, Bio Bizz fertilizers modify the ph so check the ph again after add them to the water to confirm you are always feeding in the correct ph range.

 

[Common Sense]

Hi Common Sense,

I think the nutrient problem is due to too much moisture in the soil and ph imbalance. Don't water/feed again until the soil is completely dry, and make sure the ph is correct for soil (between 6.5-6.8) in your waterings and feedings, Bio Bizz fertilizers modify the ph so check the ph again after add them to the water to confirm you are always feeding in the correct ph range.

Thank you dubi, Red 1 and Ilan for your input, very much appreciated! Indeed, the fabric pots seem to hold the moisture more than plastic pots with a hole in the bottom. I haven't watered since the flush more than four days ago and the soil is still plenty moist (started digging a finger into it). That alone tells me I had been giving too much water.



pH may also have been a bit too low for soil. I will now check with every watering. I also had noticed that the BioBizz fertilizers do lower pH.



I will keep you updated.

 

[TexasTea]

H x P after a one year cure. This remains a fantastic smoke, very incense and cedar type of aromas, super sweet candy smoke. The airy looking buds are heavier than they look and are so tender that they almost fall apart in your fingers, but there is no mold. The high is up, energetic, positive and heady. Makes me feel happy and is very functional. I love this one and am very happy to have plenty of seeds left.

 

[dubi]

Glad to hear it Texas Tea Sounds and looks like my cup of tea to start the day!

 

[Common Sense]

Thank you dubi, Red 1 and Ilan for your input, very much appreciated! Indeed, the fabric pots seem to hold the moisture more than plastic pots with a hole in the bottom. I haven't watered since the flush more than four days ago and the soil is still plenty moist (started digging a finger into it). That alone tells me I had been giving too much water.



pH may also have been a bit too low for soil. I will now check with every watering. I also had noticed that the BioBizz fertilizers do lower pH.



I will keep you updated.

Here's an update.
They are hanging in there.

O.k., I take a deep breath and upload these. I am sorry I roughed these up so badly.
We are at the end of week 8.

 

[SolarLogos]

Thank you dubi, Red 1 and Ilan for your input, very much appreciated! Indeed, the fabric pots seem to hold the moisture more than plastic pots with a hole in the bottom. I haven't watered since the flush more than four days ago and the soil is still plenty moist (started digging a finger into it). That alone tells me I had been giving too much water.



pH may also have been a bit too low for soil. I will now check with every watering. I also had noticed that the BioBizz fertilizers do lower pH.



I will keep you updated.

Greetings brother, I was just catching up on your thread. I agree with Dubi, if your soil medium, 6.2pH is way too low. If you're using coco coir, 6.2 is a good pH. In coco, my plants are generally happiest at 6.3, but can go down to 5.8pH. In soil, my plants and medium prefer 6.8 pH.

If you added a lot of amendments or did not check your soil pH, that could be off as well. Once your medium dries out, water your plants with nutrients at a pH between 6.5-6.8 pH (if you're in soil) and test the run-off. If the run-off is not between 6.5-6.8 pH then your soil pH is off. Keep running the watering with nutes until the pH of the run-off is the same/nearly the same as the pH of what is going in. You can also check the ppm/EC before and after, which will let you know if there is too much salt build-up.
FWIW, it's a lot more difficult to over-water with coco.
Best of luck, hope it helps.
Peace, God bless

 

[Common Sense]

Greetings brother, I was just catching up on your thread. I agree with Dubi, if your soil medium, 6.2pH is way too low. If you're using coco coir, 6.2 is a good pH. In coco, my plants are generally happiest at 6.3, but can go down to 5.8pH. In soil, my plants and medium prefer 6.8 pH.

If you added a lot of amendments or did not check your soil pH, that could be off as well. Once your medium dries out, water your plants with nutrients at a pH between 6.5-6.8 pH (if you're in soil) and test the run-off. If the run-off is not between 6.5-6.8 pH then your soil pH is off. Keep running the watering with nutes until the pH of the run-off is the same/nearly the same as the pH of what is going in. You can also check the ppm/EC before and after, which will let you know if there is too much salt build-up.
FWIW, it's a lot more difficult to over-water with coco.
Best of luck, hope it helps.
Peace, God bless

Many thanks SolarLogos, that, just like Dubi's comment, is very valuable information for me. I have watered with pH 6.8 till runoff yesterday on a pretty much dried out soil (tap water with about 1.5 ml/l vinegar and 1 ml/l BB Bloom). pH in the runoff was 6.55 and conductivity was about 1030 microS/cm (about 650 ppm). Seems not too far off now after the big flush about 8 days ago.


Does anyone have information about the content specifications of the BioBizz products? I could not find any on the web except for one growshop which states NPK values, but I'm not sure these are correct. It would be very helpful to have more information. They say "organic", that's about it. Grow seems to have molasses as far as I can tell from the smell and both Grow and Bloom do raise EC considerably. They also lower pH.

 

[dubi]

Hi Common Sense,

Yes, Bio Bizz fertilizers tend to lower down the ph of water.

I just found the NPK ratios of Bio Bizz Bio Grow and Bio Bloom just by doing a google search for: 'bio grow npk content' and 'bio bloom npk content'.
The nutrient contents and NPK ratios must be stated in the label of the fertilizer, it's compulsory, at least in Europe.

 

[Common Sense]

Hi Common Sense,

Yes, Bio Bizz fertilizers tend to lower down the ph of water.

I just found the NPK ratios of Bio Bizz Bio Grow and Bio Bloom just by doing a google search for: 'bio grow npk content' and 'bio bloom npk content'.
The nutrient contents and NPK ratios must be stated in the label of the fertilizer, it's compulsory, at least in Europe.

Yes of course, you are correct. Your comment caused me to examine the label a little closer and I noticed it can be peeled open like a booklet with all the needed information. Well hidden.
Also interesting how slight variations in Google search strategy make a difference..


Anyhow, the plants are doing all right. The HondurasxPanama went into self-trimming mode, I won't have much work to do at harvest time. All the yellow leafs in my previous post with the pictures are pretty much dried up and gone. Didn't stop the plant from growing massive bud structures, however. Considering the fact that I almost killed her, it will still be a good harvest should we make it that far. Hope to find some time for a couple pictures later this week.

 

[Common Sense]

69 days after flip...

69 days after flip...

...I took a small sample from one of the lower small buds and put it in my vaporizer.

Anyone who's been reading here in the ace section has stumbled into these posts saying "... not like anything I have smoked before...". I so far took these with the usual grain of salt. It's easy to get excited about something you have grown yourself.

But holy cow, it's not fake. This premature H x P sample (just under 10 weeks after flipping to 11/13 and after I almost drowned her in an acid bath halfway into flowering) was totally awesome and truly like nothing I have ever smoked or vaped before. Took a couple of minutes, but what an intense rush to the head of pure euphoria. I can totally understand those of you guys sucking on this all day long.
Here are some impressions
Don't get confused by the brown wilted pistils and the dried leaves. These are from the incident a few weeks ago when i overwatered with too much and too low pH. The buds of the Zamaldelica in the same tent havenn't recovered as well yet, but I am sampling these as well right now.