Homeopathic Cannabis

[Mala Tempora]

I recommend a book called Trick or Treatment? Alternative Medicine on Trial. It really sheds light on the bullshit industries like homeopathy, acupuncture, and other scam treatments that have absolutely no evidence in favour of their credibility.

Many people have tried to overdose on homeopathic medicine, however they have yet to succeed. Homeopathy offers nothing more than a placebo effect.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Many people have tried to overdose on homeopathic medicine, however they have yet to succeed.

Wish we could say the same about Aspirin and 99% of all the other chemical Rx out there. Eh?

 

[Mala Tempora]

Wish we could say the same about Aspirin and 99% of all the other chemical Rx out there. Eh?

Yes, but the reason you can overdose on Aspirin and other medicine is because they actually do something to the body. Most homoeopathic medicine has no molecules of the actual substance they claim to be selling in the mixture. It's just plain old water.

 

[accessndx]

HOMEOPATHY IS NOT REAL. THERE IS NO SCIENCE TO SUPPORT IT.

Now I wouldn't necessarily say THAT. There has been a signficant amount of literature spearheaded by even the AMA regarding certain homepathic preparations of substances.....like ARNICA MONTANA.

That's been shown to reduce interstitial bleeding times, bruising, and soreness of musculature by almost 75%. Above and beyond placebo.

Here's just ONE singular link from the Archives of Facial Plastic Surgery relating to diminished bruising and healing times post-operatively using homeopathic preparations of ARNICA:

http://archfaci.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/8/1/54

One other thing to consider: certain strengths of homeopathic medicine are ONLY AVAILABLE VIA PRESCRIPTION. These are typically the MORE DILUTE preparations that have MUCH less of the actual substance within. Homeopathy works more effectively with LOWER doses of the active ingredient.....so much less that it doesn't even equate to Avagadro's number of atoms within the final product.

If there's NO science behind it, and it's TOTAL B.S., how come it's prescriptive only from M.D.s? I'd say if it were so foo-foo and full of shit, it would be quite the opposite.....you'd be able to get those preparations in your local health food store....(and yes, there are versions of homeopathic reagents that you can buy locally...but they are MUCH HIGHER concentrations of the active ingredient....curiosly enough they work to a lesser extent than their more dilluted versions).

Here's an example: You could purchase a 6C or a 30C strength version of Arnica over the counter. This "C" corresponds to the Roman numbering system "CENTRUM" and means "one hundred".
So a 6C preparation of ARNICA would be dilluted 600 times.

PRESCRIPTIVE strength homeopathic remedies come in much higher dillutions....like "M" or "MILLE" meaning "one thousand".

If you were to get a prescriptive preparation of ARNICA, let's say a 6M dillution, that would mean it was dilluted 6000 times.

Technically, it has much less of the "active" ingredient in it, but by FEDERAL law in the United States....those preparations are available by prescription only, and administered by a physician.

The federal government states that it's a legitimate medicine...and it is regulated accordingly.

Lesser dillutions which are less physiologically active for some rather complex reasons, are available OTC and you can buy them many places.

People have gross misconceptions about Homeopathy, which is widely utilized as a highly organized and competitive system of medicine in Europe. It's counterpart: Allopathy, is what you consider modern Western medicine. Both go back to Hippocrates, who wrote extensively about both Allopathy and Homeopathy. Not for nothing...he's also the "father of medicine" since time immemorial.

Anyway, I thought this may be illuminating for some.

Homeopathy is not B.S.. At least governmental authorities that regulate controlled substances don't think it is. I think personally it's widely misunderstood, and people with very little knowledge make commentaries that just aren't based in fact, or experience.

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

I checked out your link, and it is interesting, but I'm very curious as to the exact concentration of their homeopathic A montana was. Sadly, it's not included there.

The only reason anybody takes homeopathy seriously is because people act like it's a real thing.

If you follow the dilution advocated by the founder of Homeopathy, (60X or 30C, I couldn't find the M scale) you would need to consume 10^34 gallons of liquid "remedy" as they call it in order to consume a single molecule of the original substance. Let's look at that...

That's 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 gallons... to get 1 molecule.

 

[accessndx]

I know it sounds counterintuitive. But it's accurate.

The point is not to get MORE, the point is to treat the remedy in a similar fashion to a "vaccination".

Although physiologically the same thing is NOT occurring, it's the best analogy I can give you without giving you years of explanation.

In the case of an attenuated virus preparation for a vaccine....the virus in question is damaged by various chemical, or energetic means. The DNA is fragmented and in essence the virus is weakened. This is a gross oversimplification, but you get the point. When you inject these fragments into someone, the virus cannot take hold in the same manner it would if it were fully integrated and functional. The human body can mount an immune response against that infectious agent through exposure to these attenuated pieces.

Sometimes this doesn't work well, as is the case with the Polio vaccine. Whereas it effectively eliminated Polio for the most-part, there were some cases of recidivism as a direct consequence of exposure.

But I digress: homeopathy purportedly works in the same manner, only it's an "energetic" and not physical exposure to the substance that mounts a response.

Technically there's absolutely nothing in a homeopathic remedy. When you've taken a very small amount of anything, and reduce it over and over again until there's literally less than Avagadro's number of the atoms left.

Avogadro's number = 6.0221415 × 10^23.

Below that number of atoms, according to chemistry, physics and the rest of science there is nothing of the physical substance left for detection by any known means. There's not even one mole of the matter.

However, if you take a homeopathic dilluted substance which contains less than that number of atoms...and you run it through the various tests necessary for chemical analysis.....the same characteristic signature of the substance is visible, without the necessary physical elements being present.

It is said to energetically mirror the physical substance.

The body can then react in a manner similar to that of the physical vaccination, but with effects that are much more varied.

Homeopathic substances are prescribed not to counteract the physical symptoms as in Allopathy. In Allopathy, if you were experiencing vomiting, you'd be given an anti-emetic.
In Homeopathy, you'd be given very small amounts of some substance that was shown to induce vomiting. When given in these small doses, the opposite effect occurs.

Without going into exhaustive detail that about sums it up. It's not garbage, but it is clearly not understood at a much deeper level and it is typically misconstrued as psuedoscience.

 

[zymos]

Homeopathic substances are prescribed not to counteract the physical symptoms as in Allopathy. In Allopathy, if you were experiencing vomiting, you'd be given an anti-emetic.
In Homeopathy, you'd be given very small amounts of some substance that was shown to induce vomiting. When given in these small doses, the opposite effect occurs.

How do you explain homeopathic chamomile then?
When taken as an herb, it is a calming sedative.
When taken homeopathically, it supposedly does the same thing, but according to the basic principal of homeopathy, it should act like a stimulant.

 

[accessndx]

Zymos: Gotta give you some background before answering.
All homeopathic substances for the most part were developed through a process called "Provings". What this means is a group of individuals sat around and basically ingested massive doses of whatever the substance was: animal, mineral or plant.
The effects they got from having larger than normal doses caused certain side effects. They hypothesized that taking the smallest dose possible would cause the inverse effect.
Apparently Chamomilla is NOT a calming sedative when taken at the doses required for the original participants.
According to the Materia Medica, which is the Homeopathic pharmacopia....Chamomillia is for the following symptoms:
Chamomilla is for patients feeling: sensitive, irritable, thirsty, hot, and numb. Oversensitiveness from abuse of Coffee and narcotics. Pains that are unendurable, associated with numbness. Night-sweats.

Apparently when alot of Chamomilla is ingested it causes hypersensitiviity, irritability, feelings of heat associated with numbness and night sweats.

It's quite possible that the doses you speak about for normal HERBAL use of Chamomilla aren't strong enough to create those reactions, and in fact have another outcome.

I guess the most distilled version of what I can say about Chamomilla is that you probably aren't taking enough of it to cause the nasty effects that were originally described way back when these provings took place. There is such a thing as an "HERBAL" application of these substances which is NOT homeopathic.

Marijuana which is used as a homeopathic therapy causes CERTAIN effects when you take it in the doses typically associated with smoking, vaping....whatever. Typically relaxing...fun, giggly...etc.
If you've ever had the misfortune of ingesting TOO much Marijuana, it can give you the spins....make you feel awful.
I remember doing this when I was around 17 years old and going to a wedding. We had tons of schwag and we made brownies with like a quarter pound of weed.
It was my first time making brownies and we didn't know what to expect. After eating one brownie, and waiting awhile we decided to eat another...and another.
Before you know it I was a drooling, stumbling mess that had to be carried out of the wedding. I couldn't even close my eyes without getting the spins.

Haven't had that happen for many years since that original incident, until more recently when I was gifted some of Outkastt's budder. That shit is strong as an Ox! I ate a bit more than a teaspoon the first time and was almost getting the spins....with significantly supressed respiration and vitals. Was a fun time, but I was JUST at that edge of being uncomfortable. Now I've built a bit of a tolerance and can easily eat a tsp....actually I have to take a bit more these days now.

Nonetheless, I think you should look at what happens when you take a SIGNIFICANT amount of anything like Chamomilla.....what happens when people practically OVERDOSE on it....that's the best answer I can give you.

To boot: I'm trying to reverse engineer some rather complex subjects for general consumption of who I believe are for the mostpart laypeople. Anyone can understand anything, but obviously some subjects require years of study and research to talk about meaningfully. I hope that my explanations aren't confusing as they aren't meant to be. It's rather the subject that is a bit challenging, as evidenced by your question earlier.

 

[Mala Tempora]

If the theory behind homeopathy is sound, what stops the other various chemicals (water treatment chemicals, fluoride, contamination from the containers, etc.) that have been in contact with the water at some point from influencing the effects of the medicine?

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I know it sounds counterintuitive. But it's accurate.

Homeopathic substances are prescribed not to counteract the physical symptoms as in Allopathy. In Allopathy, if you were experiencing vomiting, you'd be given an anti-emetic.
In Homeopathy, you'd be given very small amounts of some substance that was shown to induce vomiting. When given in these small doses, the opposite effect occurs.

Without going into exhaustive detail that about sums it up. It's not garbage, but it is clearly not understood at a much deeper level and it is typically misconstrued as psuedoscience.

Super clear and lucid explanation. Much better explanation than the quack M.D., on stage from the link. Thank You!


Stay Safe!

 

[accessndx]

If the theory behind homeopathy is sound, what stops the other various chemicals (water treatment chemicals, fluoride, contamination from the containers, etc.) that have been in contact with the water at some point from influencing the effects of the medicine?

Nothing does. As a matter of fact, it's strongly suggested that people avoid certain things such as "strong or bitter herbs", "cinnamon", "coffee"...etc. It's recommended that people don't eat or drink anything 30 minutes prior to or 30 minutes after consuming a homeopathic remedy orally. There are MANY things that counteract the effectiveness of homeopathic medicines. There are even SPECIAL toothpastes formulated so that you don't negate the effects.

 

[solace]

Just thought I would post some pics of the homeopaths I was given a while back, specifically the ingredients labels. The nutritionist used a simple looking device called a Zyto, it would run through a long list of things and find what stressors i had, then it would use a type of graph...it was a circle, and anything outside the circle needed to be in it to put it simply and short.... so she would figure out what was needed, type in some things, and it would figure out what dose my body wanted, and then show a new graph of how it would look after... I did it anyways regardless of my skepticism. When I had another zyto test 2 weeks after, it started saying I needed lower doses for several of the homeo paths because the stressors were becoming more balanced and not so far out.

What i don't understand, is I went to her for stomach problems... and these supposed 'stressors' i'm getting rid of haven't affected my stomach at all.... actually, i have been feeling pains i never felt that are different from the usual cramps in the past.....it's probably due to the zinc/vitamins she had me taking. Or even due to having too much cereal this morning and a few other mornings ago.. idk. So i'm having her do a consultation with me again soon to start some tests/treatment for gall stones/kidney stones.... if i put money into that and don't feel any better when finished I'm calling it all off and will have to live forever with the view that she was just an old witch doctor phony along with homeopathics- which i don't want to happen. So guess i just gotta 'trust' her for now....

I can say though, the homeopaths that were meant to help my thyroid and cyclothemia (lithium is one of them) seem to be doing something. But, then again, that could just be the new complete organic and healthy diet working it's magic on me.

The taste of the drops is just gnarly, unless you mix it with like a half glass of water and electrolytes (then tastes great!). I still don't know what my opinion on homeopaths is, I am sure half out there are just bull hockey, but some seem to help and it's not placebo affects cause I was very doubtful and against it.

For example, one of the homeopaths contains lithium... not safe to take in general obviously (AT ALL) which is why such a highly diluted figure would be needed...


Here are all the different droppers of homeopaths and one pill bottle






Some of them are twice a day, most of them are 3 times a day. If taken with food... its gotta be 25 minutes before or after otherwise like accessindx said, it will render the homeopaths useless.
Great input everyone -
-Sol

 

[mriko]

Glad to know things are improving for you solace !

Irie !

 

[Mala Tempora]

Nothing does. As a matter of fact, it's strongly suggested that people avoid certain things such as "strong or bitter herbs", "cinnamon", "coffee"...etc. It's recommended that people don't eat or drink anything 30 minutes prior to or 30 minutes after consuming a homeopathic remedy orally. There are MANY things that counteract the effectiveness of homeopathic medicines. There are even SPECIAL toothpastes formulated so that you don't negate the effects.

I'm not sure you understood me as I intended. I mean the water used in the creation of homoeopathic medicine. At some point that water wouldn't have been pure water, but would contain traces of other chemicals that, according to the theory behind homeopathy, should have been retained in the "memory" that water apparently has, and had an affect on the person consuming the substance.

For example, here's a list of chemicals routinely added to the tap water supply in the UK (from some website):

Liquified chlorine
Fluorosilicic acid
Aluminium sulphate
Calcium hydroxide
Sodium silicofluoride

Salts of:
arsenic
radium
aluminium
copper
lead
mercury
cadmium
barium



How come these chemicals that either are or were present in the water don't have any influence on the "medicine"? According to homeopathy, there doesn't even need to be a molecule of a substance present for the substance to still remain in the memory of the water and exhibit some biological effect on the person consuming it.

 

[solace]

The water they used for the homeopathics I own is demineralized water, and 25% ethanol.

EDIT: and they taste GROSS! But not if mixed with electrolytes and water... then it tastes like gatorade propel.

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

According to the "memory of water" theory, every time you drink water, you're actually drinking a homeopathic remedy of dinosaur piss.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I'm not sure you understood me as I intended. I mean the water used in the creation of homoeopathic medicine. At some point that water wouldn't have been pure water, but would contain traces of other chemicals that, according to the theory behind homeopathy, should have been retained in the "memory" that water apparently has, and had an affect on the person consuming the substance.

If you actually read up on Homeopathy......

There's a specific method used to shake these dilutions. Highly doubtful that any contaminates (or dinosaur piss) was properly shaken up, before being dumped into a stream for us to ingest.

You didn't pay attention during that comedy sketch that quack M.D. put on? Check the video link.

Stay Safe!

 

[Mala Tempora]

If you actually read up on Homeopathy......

There's a specific method used to shake these dilutions. Highly doubtful that any contaminates (or dinosaur piss) was properly shaken up, before being dumped into a stream for us to ingest.

You didn't pay attention during that comedy sketch that quack M.D. put on? Check the video link.

Stay Safe!

I'm not sure what "quack M.D" you're talking about, but I know that succussion is a very broad and unscientific process where the liquid is just bashed around a few times before the next stage of dilution (or "potentization", as they so ironically call it). I'm betting that at some point, liquid contaminated with other chemicals would have been bashed around enough for the vibrations to remain in the water, so that even when no molecules of the substance remain, the vibrations would. But because homeopathy is a load of pseudoscientific rubbish, no evidence of the diluted substance remains in the water, and if there are no molecules of the substance left in the water, then there will be no biological effect from the substance on a person consuming the homeopathic medicine.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

The Royal Family uses only homeopathic medicine.

Personally, I don't use it. Don't even really know much about it until a month or so ago. I'm interested in reading about it as it seems like another "barely understood" field. There's a lot of things in the the brief descriptions I've read that jive with other 'effects' that are ignored in other fields of science. Enough to warrant interest, in my book.

The present chemical alternatives (Rx medications) are known for death and destruction of the human body and mind. Not well known enough, apparently, since people still consume them in mass quantities.

Don't be so quick to Poo-poo something you A) Haven't any personal research experience with and B) Haven't read enough literature to understand where the writers are coming from. That goes for any field of expertise. There was a time you would have been called mad.... if you didn't believe that tying a pregnant woman up for a week during labor was a 'good medical practice'.

My how times have changed?

Stay Safe!

 

[Mala Tempora]

The Royal family are morons for advocating pseudo science and medicine that violates the very basic principles of physics. I've read a whole lot on these nonsense therapies and treatments, and in particular homeopathy, as it seems to be particularly prevalent. None of it stands up in a clinical trial, which is why it's all labelled as alternative treatment. The present RX medications may have undesirable side effects, but it actually has an effect on the body, which is more than can be said for drinking shaken up water. The most severe ailment homeopathic medicine will cure is dry mouth.