Highland Thai, Johaar, Lemon Candy, Syrian, Rhino D

[shiva82]

a and b combined is a complete nutrient .Are you using tap water or reverse osmosis? You don't need the extra epsom salts yet either, unless they are adults and hungry for the extra mag. Seeds especially don't need feeding like a rooted clone would either. Do you have an e.c meter ? when i run coco i start at 0.3 ec on young seedlings and rise in progression and relevance to 1.2 ec for adult plants and keep it at that , give or take a fraction depending on strains. less is more , just be consistant.

looking like you going to be busy . keep it up pal

also, i'm guessing you are using the canna brand ? maybe i missed that part

 

[aliceklar]

a and b combined is a complete nutrient .Are you using tap water or reverse osmosis? You don't need the extra epsom salts yet either, unless they are adults and hungry for the extra mag. Seeds especially don't need feeding like a rooted clone would either. Do you have an e.c meter ? when i run coco i start at 0.3 ec on young seedlings and rise in progression and relevance to 1.2 ec for adult plants and keep it at that , give or take a fraction depending on strains. less is more , just be consistant.

looking like you going to be busy . keep it up pal

also, i'm guessing you are using the canna brand ? maybe i missed that part

Thanks Shiva

I use a 40/60 mix of tapwater and rainwater, worked out last grow when I had to learn about e.c, pH & hyrdo/coco in a hurry with a whole load of sick plants that were originally in compost. I've experimented a lot with the mix, and it seems to work for me in this setting... https://www.icmag.com/threads/white-rhino-friends-fall-2021-grow.17962216/post-17987754

yes, Canna Coco nutes. I use c 1/4 tsp epsom per gallon of tapwater to provide Mg, instead of using calmag (as I grow under LEDs), and the extra calcium comes from the hard tapwater, which I treat with nitric acid to bring the pH down. If I could get away without using the Epsom until the plants are bigger, that would be sweet.

I'm keeping the e.c down to around what you mentioned - or equivalent in ppm - 350 or so now - and initially just using rainwater. I'm using less than 50% of what Canna recommend for seedlings in the first few weeks.

Everything seems to have suddenly kicked up a gear since I started the daily feeding

 

[shiva82]

canna coco a and b is technically all you need but i hear you . yes feed every watering . start low and increase as they become established. Always ignore grow charts and just get ec ph pen and a complete nutrient like you have and dial it in . no gimmics. they look tonnes better so must be working your alterations

peace bro

 

[aliceklar]

Relieved the drainage is sorted. thank god for glue guns.

Plants seem happier with the daily feeds, although some of the Johaar showing extreme twisted leaves & leaf mottling / asymmetry. Not sure what this is - suspect its genetic to this particular seed line as neither the Lemon Candy nor the Thai are displaying these symptoms.

Culled the worst of these, as well as a couple of runty unhealthy Thai. Planted a couple of pots with some freebie Ethiopians to fill the gaps, keeping the clear-headed sativa theme. Still no sign of the ACE auto Zamaldelica... have tried again with the 3rd and final seed.

Pic before the cull:

 

[aliceklar]

And the day after...

 

[aliceklar]

All growing rapidly, and appreciating the daily feeding. The Thai are really shooting up.

For the past week, the two columns with pink/purple tags have been on 1.5ml Canna Coco A+B, the others just 1ml. There are a few signs of yellowing/occasional patches of necrosis, but only on the columns that have been getting 1ml - the two columns on 1.5ml look healthier. I'm upping the feed to 1.5ml across the board (also its a pain in the ass doing two different mixes). Am giving the Ethiopians and the final Zam seed plenty of LITFA.

Topped the biggest 3 Thais (inc the 2 P1s). Once they are growing back strong, I will repot them into 4 or 5 litre pots, and use those three strongest as hosts to grafts of the other Thais.

 

[goingrey]

Grafting again, very cool!

Since you've got the skills, have you thought about testing the "grafting a leaf from a flowering plant to a vegging photo plant to make it flower under long light hours" technique?

There was a thread about it a while back, don't know if you saw it..

Finally a way to make pure Sativas flower in Summer!!

Florigen - Scientists have proven the existence of this flowering-inducing hormone or hormone-like molecule linked to the process of photoperiodism, although despite decades of research its mechanism is still a mystery. It was shown that grafting a leaf taken from a flowering plant onto a...

www.icmag.com

 

[aliceklar]

Grafting again, very cool!

Since you've got the skills, have you thought about testing the "grafting a leaf from a flowering plant to a vegging photo plant to make it flower under long light hours" technique?

There was a thread about it a while back, don't know if you saw it..

Finally a way to make pure Sativas flower in Summer!!

Florigen - Scientists have proven the existence of this flowering-inducing hormone or hormone-like molecule linked to the process of photoperiodism, although despite decades of research its mechanism is still a mystery. It was shown that grafting a leaf taken from a flowering plant onto a...

www.icmag.com

Heh. That is interesting! I wasnt aware of that, but its tempting to have a play.

IMO grafting is no more difficult than cloning, and uses many of the same skills (being able to identify and cleanly cut viable cuttings/scions, maintaining good hygienic growing conditions with appropriate light, temperature and humidity). I'm surprised more people dont do it... Anyway, watch this space for some multi-grafted sativa scrogs

 

[aliceklar]

Thai (to the left) still growing rapidly. All sorts going on in here. The Thai and the Johaar #8 (front right) are really diverse.

The Lemon Candy are looking much more uniform, relatively squat apart from the tall one at the back. Would be sick if the tall one was the sole male - both parents had lush lemon terps so this should be tasty. These are the offspring of the best of the F1 Johaar x Nitro Lemon Haze as mother, crossed with the P2 #9 Johaar male, so a backcross of kinds. The #9 male was one of the two used to pollinate all the P2 Johaars. The Nitro Lemon Haze grandfather (MSNL regs, 2019) is a fast flowering hybrid (at least partly stabilized) between Jack Herer & Critical Mass. So, skunk & haze still doing their dance.

One of the Ethiopian freebies is up . No sign of the 3rd Zamaldelica Watering twice a day now.
And the pinguicula is flowering. Pretty!

 

[aliceklar]

Ethiopian is the new kid in town. Just got the one, from 4 seeds, but were freebies so less fussed than I am about the Zamaldelica. Also its gonna get pretty crowded. Welcome to the team, kid.

Potted on Thia P1#4, P1#5, P2#6. From 1 litre to 4 litre, still in coco. I've this bunch of tall green 4 litre pots and weed seems to grow very happily in them - I think it likes the root depth. Checked the pH/ppm of the coco when I mixed up a new batch - forgot to do first rinse, but the waste water from the second rinse came out at 280ppm (tapwater is 290). Reassured that there isnt any substantial residual salt content. Also had a taste

Roots looking good.

 

[goingrey]

A taste? LOL. Well that's one way to measure salt content..

You should contact ACE about the Auto-Zamaldelica. Obviously no problem with the seed germing process as you even had to cull other plants. Somethings up with the beans.

 

[aliceklar]

Repotted Thais P1.4, P1.5 and P2.6 all growing rapidly - I thought there would be some transplant shock but they didnt even blink. Everything growing well, so time to do some grafting. Took the tops off some of the smaller plants that were double-potted, and grafted them onto the top of P1.5

Also swapped out one of the two tops on P1.5 with P1.4 and P2.6.

Putting this here to keep track of whats grafted on what.

GRAFT LOG

Host	scion 1	scion 2	scion 3	scion 4	scion 5
HT.p1.4	p1.5	p2.5	p2.8	P2.9b*​	P2.1
HT.p1.5	p2.11	p2.7	p2.10	P2.9a*​	LC8
HT.p2.6	p1.5	p2.1	p2.3	p2.4
LC4	LC3	LC7	LC8
LC9	LC2	J4	LC5
LC6	LC8	LC1	LC5
Johaar2	J5	J6
Eth.	J3

*suspect that p2.11 = p2.9a or p2.9b. Got slack with the labelling.

 

[zif]

Repotted Thais P1.4, P1.5 and P2.6 all growing rapidly - I thought there would be some transplant shock but they didnt even blink. Everything growing well, so time to do some grafting. Took the tops off some of the smaller plants that were double-potted, and grafted them onto the top of P1.5

View attachment 18770753

Also swapped out one of the two tops on P1.5 with P1.4 and P2.6.

Putting this here to keep track of whats grafted on what.

GRAFT LOG

Host
p1.4	p1.5
p1.5	p2.11	Johaar 7
p2.6	p1.5

Excellent plan! Keeping track is wayyyy harder than doing the grafts.

 

[aliceklar]

Excellent plan! Keeping track is wayyyy harder than doing the grafts.

Thanks zif! They looked sadly wilted just before lights out... am hoping they will perk up, but I may have been a bit too gung-ho. We will see. As ever with this hobby, you fuck around and then you find out.

 

[aliceklar]

The Johaar graft on P1 thai #5 is a goner. The other grafts are hanging in there, but not looking great. They might still make it... Aside from being cackhanded with the grafting, I may have been a little hasty - the hosts may have been too young, and the scions too big with too much leaf (so struggled with transpiration loss). Will try again today with some of the Johaar.

 

[aliceklar]

Here's the #5 thai with the two grafts - Johaar crispy & dead but still some life in the p211 scion. I left far too much foliage on the scions.

Decided to use the Lemon Candy for the next graft-fest:

LC3 -> LC5
LC4 -> LC3
LC2 -> LC4
LC9 -> LC2

Nice little daisy chain, swapping off the tops from one to another. Made sure the scions had all but the smallest leaves trimmed off, and used slightly more mature stem on the hosts this time. These should work better. Interesting, noticed hollow stems on the Lemon Candy. Cant recall if this is a Johaar trait (definitely is for the thai).

well

 

[zif]

Here's the #5 thai with the two grafts - Johaar crispy & dead but still some life in the p211 scion. I left far too much foliage on the scions.
View attachment 18772536

Decided to use the Lemon Candy for the next graft-fest:

LC3 -> LC5
LC4 -> LC3
LC2 -> LC4
LC9 -> LC2

Nice little daisy chain, swapping off the tops from one to another. Made sure the scions had all but the smallest leaves trimmed off, and used slightly more mature stem on the hosts this time. These should work better. Interesting, noticed hollow stems on the Lemon Candy. Cant recall if this is a Johaar trait (definitely is for the thai).
View attachment 18772537 well

View attachment 18772538

View attachment 18772539

Those look much more likely to thrive - 'though seems like you probably got away with the, ah, low-key approach on that p211 scion!

Have you run into enough hollow stems to try any modifications to get better grafts with them? They're rare enough for me that I haven't yet decided what the easiest way to go is. If the rootstock is hollow, I'm tempted to graft into the side of a stem, rather than the top. If the scion is hollow, that can be really finicky in my experience... the sides of the 'wedge' with meristem often want to peel/bend right out of the cleft. So far, the only thing I'm sure works, though, is making double the grafts if I notice one or the other stems is hollow!

 

[aliceklar]

Those look much more likely to thrive - 'though seems like you probably got away with the, ah, low-key approach on that p211 scion!

Have you run into enough hollow stems to try any modifications to get better grafts with them? They're rare enough for me that I haven't yet decided what the easiest way to go is. If the rootstock is hollow, I'm tempted to graft into the side of a stem, rather than the top. If the scion is hollow, that can be really finicky in my experience... the sides of the 'wedge' with meristem often want to peel/bend right out of the cleft. So far, the only thing I'm sure works, though, is making double the grafts if I notice one or the other stems is hollow!

Cheers zif

Yep, got away with it It has fully taken off today.

This is the first time I've found hollow stems whilst grafting - was not expecting it. Feels harder to get a clean join - have to bodge it a bit. Not sure of the optimal way of joining when they are like this. Found myself "binding" the joint more tightly, in a wrap rather than just a pinch. Similar stems on the Johaar as well.

Did a couple more grafts this evening - a straight top-swap with Johaar #3 and #4. If they both take, I'll have immediate backup and can start sexing some plants.

Target is for 9 flowering plants in 4 litre coco pots in the main flower space, three to a tray. Have put in proper hooks to make a scrog net. Three thai are already there - next step is to build the grafts on them from the other plants. Moved the Johaar down, too.

 

[Alitolla]

Like a modern Frankenstein you graft painlessly in the hope of putting life back into that creature ... without fear, without remorse. You have my respect!

 

[Cakeboy]

Hey Alice

how long does it usually take until you know whether a scion has taken and grabbed?