DcSantos
Active member
do you dry coco before reusing it or use it straight away for the new plants ?
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High runoff during flush in Coco
- Thread starter Caperoots
- Start date
I think Im catching on here… in summary coco is high in K and Na and is constantly making this available to the plant as it breaks down?
Adding more potassium becomes an issue in coco, especially toward the end of the plants life cycle.
Increasing Ca and Mg prevents excessive K from becoming plant available. Extra Mg is not desirable in finished product either?
Would it not then be desirable to push higher calcium to finish?
-DD
Adding more potassium becomes an issue in coco, especially toward the end of the plants life cycle.
Increasing Ca and Mg prevents excessive K from becoming plant available. Extra Mg is not desirable in finished product either?
Would it not then be desirable to push higher calcium to finish?
-DD
Ca++
Well-known member
It depends how long you have. At a push, I have cored out the plant, like coring out an apple. Leaving a hole the size of the incoming pot. Then used enough grow food get get maybe 50% runoff, just to know the plant is in grow food, not flower. Though there is actually merit in using flower food when rooting in, anyway. So it's really not a problem.
That rough 'no till' approach isn't as good as fluffing it all up again, and will show in the yield. Though has posed no rot related problems, it's a bit compacted after doing it a few times.
The better approach is to gave them a day to drain, then break them up and riddle. The coco and smaller bits of root will drop though, and most of the larger root mass is caught. What comes through, is ready to use. Just pot up, and water in with your veg food. The only reason it wouldn't be ready, is if there had actually been a problem in the previous grow. This is why you keep treating it properly, right up till the end. So you are just carrying on. Perhaps the next day.
Over time, coco becomes more peat like. With the bits of root composting away, this is a little quicker. In a couple of years, it's like handling compost, not coco. You can run it sterile if you want, but coco is approved for organic grows, and supports a good micro-herd, if you let it. This is why you need add no enzymes to help compost the old roots. It's verging onto living soil, but one you can sterilise at will.
Perhaps this is a long way down the road, but you get there. Or if it's coco peat you start with, then often the supplier suggests 3 runs. Though I'm not listening..
Ca++
Well-known member
I have a slight gap in my knowledge here. Coco feeds tend to use quite a bit of K, to suppress the K from the coco. I have to presume the K from the coco is in a less desirable form. The higher K in the feed, is to ensure a decent proportion of what the plant takes, is the right stuff. I have read this, but don't have the chemistry knowledge to confirm it. By removing the K the feed provides, the only K comes from the coco. Which isn't great. The plant eat's it quickly to. Of the 4 spoke of, K is the biggest, which is why others can use the K pathways. Particularly Na, which is detrimental. So we need to see the number of K and Na from the coco, suppressed by greater numbers from the feed. Even if it is the same K, the ratio to Na is bad.
Keep in mind I'm a grower with high school physics, not chemistry. So I won't get too deep, as I will make mistakes.
Ca in solution is Ca++ while Mg is Mg++ but K is K+ (and Na I have seen reported as either)
The + plays a part in their affinity to the coco. The ++ ions can displace the + ions.
I think the cec of coco, and how to treat it, could be a uni course of it's own. Certainly a module. From a manufacturing and usage angle, it's about constant conditioning. If you want to flush it, you use lower strength feed, and lots of it. Rather than very low strength. In fact, in use, salt buildup is better addressed with greater runoff than a lower EC. Over time the EC can come down, but the immediate fix is lots of runoff.
Coco is a waste product, that canna figured they could make work. It's far from the ideal, but there is lots of it, and it's cheap. Get it right, and it can be good, but get it wrong, and it might be the hardest thing to work with. One key to doing it right, is keeping it steady. Don't upset it. It will throw a right wobbly if you make sudden changes. Smooth sailing with coco, is about consistent treatment.
Perhaps have a read of the professional studies regarding flushing in general. Many involve blind testing. Curing is also up for debate. I'm sure we have threads on the subject. Anyone?
DcSantos
Active member
this way is faster than drying it and then pulling the old roots out and buffer it after again. I was thinking to give it a try maybe to see how it goes.
they say that
can help if you want to reuse your coco.. ?
Ca++
Well-known member
I tried zym with pebbles. My plants didn't like it. I'm not sure if it was the nutrient release, or a more direct action against my plants. I think it's more use where people have two sets of substrate, with one in use, and one being cleaned. Some rockwool growers do this, though I don't know who.
In coco you have lots of life, and I'm happy with a slower release of the roots content, over time. As you finish an 8 week cycle, some of the old root can be seen. Like the strands in coco, but you know it's not. This fibre, I think is useful, in your coco that's becoming more peat-like.
I'm perfectly happy just giving it a riddle. That garden riddle is a best buy item to. I thought sifting by hand was adequate, but when I finally coughed for the riddle, everyone wanted one. It's just so fast.
A friend riddles, then runs his grow through, then by hand squeezes some of that grow back out. He wants to get from wet, to new bag like moisture levels, right away. He knows his soaking pots are a bit big for the incoming plants. So wrings some out, then fluffs it again through the riddle.
I prefer eating cake, but his efforts can't be knocked.
In coco you have lots of life, and I'm happy with a slower release of the roots content, over time. As you finish an 8 week cycle, some of the old root can be seen. Like the strands in coco, but you know it's not. This fibre, I think is useful, in your coco that's becoming more peat-like.
I'm perfectly happy just giving it a riddle. That garden riddle is a best buy item to. I thought sifting by hand was adequate, but when I finally coughed for the riddle, everyone wanted one. It's just so fast.
A friend riddles, then runs his grow through, then by hand squeezes some of that grow back out. He wants to get from wet, to new bag like moisture levels, right away. He knows his soaking pots are a bit big for the incoming plants. So wrings some out, then fluffs it again through the riddle.
I prefer eating cake, but his efforts can't be knocked.
@Ca++ … what about only using Canna Boost … as (mostly..) the only nutrient from early to mid flowering onward to the end? … people earlier we’re talking about the PK 1314 and it’s confusing uselessness … <<< it’s a product I never used …I do however love boost ..been pretty much going straight to “boost only“ with really good results …curious what your opinion is?
Ca++
Well-known member
In coco?
It doesn't seem feasible. It's the expensive stuff isn't it? The rep eventually told my shop what it is. They didn't tell me, but where shaking their heads, as the conversation skipped ahead.
I have not been near it, but logic suggests it's seaweed based.
It's pretty close before even starting to modify it. While pressed juice is more the 0.5-0-0 of Superthrive. Or there is Kelp juice at 1-0-4
It's going to be something along those lines. Not some new magic they could patent and sell the world, as they just haven't done that. No, it's just some known 'do good' such as their own Superthrive. Though that would be little use alone, or be in such a big bottle. Which is why I started with straight up seaweed.
I’m just trying to see what I’m doing & the results of been really good
I was sold on the idea of it by an old grow shop owner all they were telling me was that the formula was proprietary and that it was there number one best seller I’ve tried it with it and without it , the results do speak for themselves , but it is kind of costly at like a 5 liter chug could range between $300 > $400 US dollars
