LndRcLvr
Well-known member
It's an auto in its final 25lt pot, don't know if that affects your advice?
Helping a good friend along the way
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Yes it does. People don't usually transplant autos as they are delicate and it can trigger flowering before you want. Once it's in flower you can transplant them to a bigger pot if you need. Transplanting is usually a great joker card for novice growers as it solves most nutrient issues as long as the pH is in check. If you transplant once in flower, the plant will not grow much more but the health benefit will be dramatic.
If you'd rather not transplant then be patient. But the plant is showing issues already so when it starts to flower it won't be in the best condition and that should affect the yield. Most important thing right now is to let the soil dry until the pot is noticeably lighter.
Edit - make sure you don't have the led too close. Stressed plants don't like to be pushed hard.
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LndRcLvr
Well-known member
I'm going to leave it, I may suggest him making some horizontal holes with a chopstick or other device to help evaporation.
On another point:
I followed this exact growing method for my last auto grow and it went amazingly. The difference this time is I'm using an autopot which is tall and narrow, last time I used 25lt pot also, but it was a lower, round pot with a 50% larger soil surface area. I'm wondering if the format of the autopot has reduced the soil evaporation rate, and then the fan being set too low has amplified the issue and caused problems, plus in my first grow the pre saturated pots were allowed to dry slightly before I put the little plants in their final pots. I definitely remember it being 2 or three days under lights before I transplanted into them
@bibi40 sorry more questions -
how do you manage watering when you transplant into 25lt pots? Do you water the 25lt pots full of soil before transplanting? If so how much?
Not sure if the questions are directed to me, but if you want my opinion, watering the correct amount at the correct intervals, is the hardest thing to master for new growers, and can have the worst consequences. It takes some practice and we all mess it up especially the first few grows.
Another thing is people usually recommend autos for beginners but in my opinion it's a lot harder to water a plant correctly in its final pot. With photoperiod sensitive plants you keep them in the pot size they need, it's a lot easier to water the correct amount, and if you fuck up they recover a lot quicker.
The shape of the pot may have something to do with it but mostly plant size, temperature, humidity and ventilation would be the main differences in my opinion.
When transplanting to a bigger pot, you would still water only the amount you estimate is correct for the size of the plant, not the pot. And increase the amount according to the growth of the plant.
Another thing is people usually recommend autos for beginners but in my opinion it's a lot harder to water a plant correctly in its final pot. With photoperiod sensitive plants you keep them in the pot size they need, it's a lot easier to water the correct amount, and if you fuck up they recover a lot quicker.
The shape of the pot may have something to do with it but mostly plant size, temperature, humidity and ventilation would be the main differences in my opinion.
When transplanting to a bigger pot, you would still water only the amount you estimate is correct for the size of the plant, not the pot. And increase the amount according to the growth of the plant.
Was just confused as my method worked brilliantly last time but I guess it goes to show small differences can have a big effect.
Hello, i think the plant is getting too much light. LED's these days throw pretty strong light and it can be too much for veg. Think of light in terms of DLI, the amount of light it's getting over the whole day, and at 24 hours on thats twice as much DLI as a plant in flower at 12/12 !
Normally i would advise a dark period in veg 18/6 or 16/8 because this reduces the DLI.. but that may not be desirable for Autos i dont know. otherwise raise the light . When the leaves curl down like that it can mean they are trying to avoid the light because they are getting too much.
(this is presuming that it has been watered correctly, with all that perlite i would imagine it hard to overwater too badly, but underwatering or overwatering or some kind of root problem like gnats could also make the plant look like that )
GL
VG
Normally i would advise a dark period in veg 18/6 or 16/8 because this reduces the DLI.. but that may not be desirable for Autos i dont know. otherwise raise the light . When the leaves curl down like that it can mean they are trying to avoid the light because they are getting too much.
(this is presuming that it has been watered correctly, with all that perlite i would imagine it hard to overwater too badly, but underwatering or overwatering or some kind of root problem like gnats could also make the plant look like that )
GL
VG
Daily light integral - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I agree with @VerdantGreen that having the lights on 24h is probably not helping with the stress. But I would also think having a plant at 24/0 for a long time, then suddenly bringing the hours down to 18/6, might trigger flowering immediately. I never grew autos so not sure what others think.
Cool, hope it sorts itself out in time to flower well. How long has it been in that present pot ?
Basically the stronger/longer the light (DLI), the more demands on the plant and it's root system to keep up with absorbing water/elements ... CalMag is often the first think to become deficient under LEDs.
if the humidity is low then you could put some water in the tray at the bottom (making sire the plant is not sitting in it) , also a bit of air circulating over the leaves will help it.
VG
Basically the stronger/longer the light (DLI), the more demands on the plant and it's root system to keep up with absorbing water/elements ... CalMag is often the first think to become deficient under LEDs.
if the humidity is low then you could put some water in the tray at the bottom (making sire the plant is not sitting in it) , also a bit of air circulating over the leaves will help it.
VG
LndRcLvr
Well-known member
Three weeks now in the final pot. I germinated in a 7cm pot and then almost as soon as first true leaves showed development, it went into the 25lt autopot. It's been topped at 5th node three days ago and is producing side shoots but has clearly been checked by the poor conditions. I'm confident it will be alright but I was hoping for a banging first crop for my bestie.
LndRcLvr
Well-known member
Well this is interesting... This was the other plant that I grew. When I took the light out of my WWll grow bunker for my friend I left it in there. It's been in total darkness for over 10 day and the soil is close to frozen: amazing how happy it looks compared to the other plant - ' don't worry I'm not expecting it to grow. It's obviously gone into stasis mode. Just showing for shits and giggles. I've stuck it back in the cold black bunker bunker to see what happens. It would be interesting to see what would happen if I stuck it back in the right conditions. I a big mars Evo 6500 something I can set up but it's not worth the electricity
Thanks, 3 weeks in a 25 litre should be fine so i doubt there are any rootbinding issues (which compromise the uptake of nutrients) and it looked happy rooting out into the pot so maybe unlikely that overwatering is an issue (but this is always hard to tell from pics) hopefully you have noticed the soil getting drier in between waterings?
The plant looked happy until it had been in the new cab a few days under the light... and then it seemed to fade... so, presuming the environment is ok , it may well mean that the plant can't keep up with the brighter light. Not sure what soil you are using but the plant certainly looks hungry, so some feeding might help too.. along with reducing the light intensity.
On the wider issues, you are doing a great thing for your friend and i'm sorry for his troubles. I can help out by sending some seeds if you like? - i don't do autos but have a few fems which is, long term, probably a good option for that cab.
I used to do high yield efficient micro grows in similar sized cabs using a modular scrog method... i have a load of old grow threads here you or he might like to check out.
VG
LndRcLvr
Well-known member
Thank you my friend
very kind. I have many seeds myself so no need but thank you. I think the issue has been too much water too start with, plus not enough airflow in the new cab and then WAY too much light.
Yes i've found that you kind of need all your ducks in a row, ventilation, circulation, soil, Temp RH feeding, rootspace etc etc for the plants to thrive under lots of light. If you have a soil mix and method thats worked for you then defo best to try and replicate that for him as much as possible because you will have experience of it.
I think i read in another thread that you used vermiculite in your mix? personally i wouldn't use that for weed because it is much more water retentive than perlite and usually used for plants that like a moist soil.. which in those broad terms is not cannabis imo. that said if its worked for you in the past with the autopots then don't listen to me! if you looking for a different mix then try 70% jacks/compost and 30% perlite.
Presumably autopots water by keeping the base of the pot in shallow water ?
i go away a lot and when i do i water using a capillary mat under the plant, so essentially the same, i find this keeps the soil a lot wetter than i would really want it and this often leads to gnats or other issues. so really in that kind of system you want a really aerated free draining soil and perlite is great at keeping a wet soil aerated... vermiculite not so good..
VG
I think i read in another thread that you used vermiculite in your mix? personally i wouldn't use that for weed because it is much more water retentive than perlite and usually used for plants that like a moist soil.. which in those broad terms is not cannabis imo. that said if its worked for you in the past with the autopots then don't listen to me! if you looking for a different mix then try 70% jacks/compost and 30% perlite.
Presumably autopots water by keeping the base of the pot in shallow water ?
i go away a lot and when i do i water using a capillary mat under the plant, so essentially the same, i find this keeps the soil a lot wetter than i would really want it and this often leads to gnats or other issues. so really in that kind of system you want a really aerated free draining soil and perlite is great at keeping a wet soil aerated... vermiculite not so good..
VG
LndRcLvr
Well-known member
Cheers VG you are right, it holds waters unlike perlite, but am I right in saying it buffers soil ph and EC which perlite doesn't?
An autopot is just a tall narrow pot bit like a rose pot This is the first time I've used an autopot and is possibly one (of a number) of reasons why I ran into problems.
An autopot is just a tall narrow pot bit like a rose pot This is the first time I've used an autopot and is possibly one (of a number) of reasons why I ran into problems.
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yeah that makes sense. Handwatering, and you being a gardener.. you'd have known how to keep it right. with autowatering it relies on the capillary action so it will be the mechanics of the mix that will determine how wet it gets.
Yes vermiculite does hold some minerals and is certainly neutral... but not seen it used in cannabis soil mixes much, but it depends on everything else in the mix too.
i think you maybe need a mix that acts more like coir for a system like that.. but i would try compost and perlite plus regular feeding. i'll be interested in how it goes because those pots could save a lot of work! and if your friend is now disabled then that must be the way to go.
VG
Yes vermiculite does hold some minerals and is certainly neutral... but not seen it used in cannabis soil mixes much, but it depends on everything else in the mix too.
i think you maybe need a mix that acts more like coir for a system like that.. but i would try compost and perlite plus regular feeding. i'll be interested in how it goes because those pots could save a lot of work! and if your friend is now disabled then that must be the way to go.
VG
LndRcLvr
Well-known member
Got over to the room today and after a tidy up and a training training session plant is looking OK, removed two side shoots from 10 down to 8. Set up a circulating mini fan. Two or three days till it needs watering. I think I may have over compacted the soil when I originally filled it.
Fingers crossed it's plain sailing from here I think we are somewhere around day 25.
Fingers crossed it's plain sailing from here I think we are somewhere around day 25.
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