Help with new RDWC build

[overbudjet]

You may also insulate your bucket and water feed line from light leaking in and heat with bubble wrap house Keep light and heat out!

 

[Substitute]

I'm going to insulate the water return line cause it's clear hose, but not each individual bucket...cheers!

 

[Indiva710]

Using your return pump for a waterfall into each grow bucket and you would not need a airpump...
Also you should get a top off reservoir tho the plants are much happier with having a constant water level esp for veg...
And if your grow is in a house with central air it looks like it's in a basement which is even better you don't need a chiller just get a fan cut 2 holes in your control bucket lid opposite sides of each other put the fan blowing into one hole and the other is the exhaust...I use x2 Ac infinity 120mm fans that does 6w for both and 104cfm total for a 100gal rdwc and it keeps temps at below 71 and I have 1600w true power in a 8x4 tent... However my control res is outside of my tent...
Also with having a top off res u can go a week even without having to do anything to the system..As I run it at about 5.2ph so as the system pH rises as the plants are feeding like it should and has a float valve in the control res from the top off and does wonders and when in flower you can put the top off a week ahead of the system so as it slowly drains it's getting next week's nutes..I like to have the top off res for flower size on wat the plants will drink max in a week so if it's 30gal in a week then get a 30gal top off and it works wonders...U can also do a drought at the end of flowering to help induce a lil stress and increase % across the board if done correctly....
I run pool shock and h202 for a sterile system which has done great for me ....
System looks great for your first time that's for sure we'll done

 

[Indiva710]

Since your running a air pump u need to mount it above your waterline I built a PVC stand for mine and it does great...I did the same for my 13gal top off used 1/2in for it too and not a problem very sturdy....If you don't want to mount the air pump u can always get a 1 way check valve but they can fail and I'f you have a power outage your system will drain completely thru your pump and it will ruin the pump as well and can kill your plants if you don't catch it in time so def not worth it a stand is the way to go....
Also u should invest in a water alarm sensor they have ones that will send a update to your phone and def the way to go they are like 30 for the app based ones......Also if your airpump is adding a lot of heat to your system you can make a air manifold out of like 1in PVC and then do a leader line to your bucket and adding a elbow from the outside to inside of the bucket is a good idea no kink in the line but makes it so you only need to replace the inside of the tube when it gets hard and brittle. Instead of the whole line...

 

[Substitute]

Since your running a air pump u need to mount it above your waterline I built a PVC stand for mine and it does great...I did the same for my 13gal top off used 1/2in for it too and not a problem very sturdy....If you don't want to mount the air pump u can always get a 1 way check valve but they can fail and I'f you have a power outage your system will drain completely thru your pump and it will ruin the pump as well and can kill your plants if you don't catch it in time so def not worth it a stand is the way to go....
Also u should invest in a water alarm sensor they have ones that will send a update to your phone and def the way to go they are like 30 for the app based ones......Also if your airpump is adding a lot of heat to your system you can make a air manifold out of like 1in PVC and then do a leader line to your bucket and adding a elbow from the outside to inside of the bucket is a good idea no kink in the line but makes it so you only need to replace the inside of the tube when it gets hard and brittle. Instead of the whole line...

Thanks for the kind words. I'm trying my best to get things right before I start. A part of that is just running the system for a while without a leak showing up. Tiny pinhole leaks every now and then. It's pretty good, but one showed up this morning..there was a puddle. Had to drain, fix, wait...(silicone)...re test. I hate having to use silicone (patch job)...but it's clear and I'm trying to be neat....so it doesn't look like hell.

Also...an important thing I've been trying to get right, before I start, is making sure a PH of 5.8 remains more or less stablized (for a period of time), using aerated, hard water. I can get into the PH swing thing later. A big part of that is using the Hardwater series Floramicro from General Hydroponics. It's formulated not only to make the nutrients more available to plants in hard water, but also to lower and stabilize the PH...so your not having to adjust it all the time. At most I want to use GH, PH down, UC roots and maybe Calmag. I don't know how the Calmag (or the UC roots) will react with the Floramicro, will have to see.


Anyway...still have a bit of a ways to go in testing.


I didn't think about that...my system flooding back through the air pump...that would suck! Something to think about! Thanks for the tips on the top off res and air pump. Good to know.

 

[PurplePotion]

I’d be weary of using silicone to seal those fittings. If you experience another leak, I think I’d go with an appropriate epoxy. Silicone is great when you aren’t dealing with pressure, but with the exposure of constant hydraulic pressure, it’s not fool proof, whereas the proper epoxy will last longer than the buckets themselves.

Also, there’s gotta be a good bulkhead fitting, with o-rings, that doesn’t require any sealant. Maybe one of the DWC guys can jump in here.

Another tip, use bungee cords to hang your air pump (higher than water level). Those effers are loud. Bungee cords will dramatically reduce the vibration and noise from the pump. You can use the same idea for your fans to reduce noise.

 

[Substitute]

I’d be weary of using silicone to seal those fittings. If you experience another leak, I think I’d go with an appropriate epoxy. Silicone is great when you aren’t dealing with pressure, but with the exposure of constant hydraulic pressure, it’s not fool proof, whereas the proper epoxy will last longer than the buckets themselves.

Also, there’s gotta be a good bulkhead fitting, with o-rings, that doesn’t require any sealant. Maybe one of the DWC guys can jump in here.

Another tip, use bungee cords to hang your air pump (higher than water level). Those effers are loud. Bungee cords will dramatically reduce the vibration and noise from the pump. You can use the same idea for your fans to reduce noise.

If it continues to be a problem I'll use something more permanent. Maybe construction adhesive (in a silicone gun) as it goes on thicker. Epoxy's pretty runny and a lot of it would be needed. The problem i'm thinking are the round buckets. The bulkheads are meant for a flat surface. Square buckets would probably be better, but I had already purchased the net pots which were for round buckets.

My air pump is actually pretty quiet. I can't really hear it from upstairs. It was loud at first until I installed the airlines. Now she's nice and quiet.

 

[Indiva710]

Ya I agree no silicone I refuse to use uniseals unless it's above the water line lol... Bulkheads all the way now the only custom made ones are from current culture which are 2 and 3in only tho but they are wonderful...
I also will not build a rdwc system without pvc orbit fittings they are a must have in my book and also rectangle buckets work better for larger PVC and won't have a issue with leaks vs a Round 5gal bucket... The orbit fittings home depot carries them they are like 2-3ea tho they come in 1/2, 3/4, 1in only w couplers, tees, reducer tees, end caps, elbows what's great about them is not only are they removable and replaceable with a special key so no glue is required..and are great for pumps since there's threads and since the PVC pipe will spin inside the fitting threads are a non issue which I use them for on my return pumps etc...also oatey test plugs instead of rubber end caps is a huge benefit...
I also do not use any elbows on my system unless its a orbit pvc fitting since it can be removed and cleaned and unions for long PVC runs so you can take em apart and clean them as
YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO CLEAN YOUR ENTIRE PVC PIPE ... Gorrila glue makes a really nice PVC glue it has primer already in it , it's clear and it's low voc...Ace hardware carries it locally
I use tees with oatey test plugs instead of elbows on my main PVC lines as oatey plugs come in 1.25in to like 4in I believe they are under a dollar more than a rubber end cap and band clamp is and the test plugs don't need tools as they have a wing nut and sooo much cleaner looking too ...
I am a big fan of growstones gs-1 which they went out of business and no longer makes however they have them on Amazon right now for $40 shipped for 1.5cuft which is the best deal you will find and cheapest and I would much much rather use gs-1 over hydroton anyday don't have balls rolling all over the place or white mildew/mold on them plus they make your plants alot heavier esp with 10in netpots is a lot of media to clean as well...
Which the gs-1 are a lot easier to clean and keep clean plus the roots grow different even they are a lot thinner and a lot more of them and fuller too..Which in turn saves your netpots from breaking or warping due to thick roots like used to happen when I used hydroton....Also gs-1 have silica in it too although if not washed good enough from the start can have ph swings....
O also u will need to have plants and nutes in the system to fully know what it's going to do ph wise etc....
It is a very rare occasion when the plant needs calcium and mag at the same time usually what u end up doing with calmag is locking one of the nutes out and all you need instead is mgso4 aka epsom salt and calcium nitrate and they are both dirt cheap a few bucks for a few pounds well worth it and will last a hell of a lot longer than a single quart bottle of calmag trash...
Instead of uc roots use pool shock stage 2 is all u need and it's the same thing shit uc roots uses like 0.017% calcium hypochlorite only per bottle which a whole 1lb bag of pool shock is under $5 and will last u years for the samething....
And if u do silica which if u scrog it's a pretty much a must have in rdwc if not ur going to snap branches not gently bend them over use agsil 16h potassium silicate it's cheap as well and will last u a very very long time too just make a stock solution of it and as needed which I quit using about wk3-4 flower but that's just me....

 

[Substitute]

Ya I agree no silicone I refuse to use uniseals unless it's above the water line lol... Bulkheads all the way now the only custom made ones are from current culture which are 2 and 3in only tho but they are wonderful...
I also will not build a rdwc system without pvc orbit fittings they are a must have in my book and also rectangle buckets work better for larger PVC and won't have a issue with leaks vs a Round 5gal bucket... The orbit fittings home depot carries them they are like 2-3ea tho they come in 1/2, 3/4, 1in only w couplers, tees, reducer tees, end caps, elbows what's great about them is not only are they removable and replaceable with a special key so no glue is required..and are great for pumps since there's threads and since the PVC pipe will spin inside the fitting threads are a non issue which I use them for on my return pumps etc...also oatey test plugs instead of rubber end caps is a huge benefit...
I also do not use any elbows on my system unless its a orbit pvc fitting since it can be removed and cleaned and unions for long PVC runs so you can take em apart and clean them as
YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO CLEAN YOUR ENTIRE PVC PIPE ... Gorrila glue makes a really nice PVC glue it has primer already in it , it's clear and it's low voc...Ace hardware carries it locally
I use tees with oatey test plugs instead of elbows on my main PVC lines as oatey plugs come in 1.25in to like 4in I believe they are under a dollar more than a rubber end cap and band clamp is and the test plugs don't need tools as they have a wing nut and sooo much cleaner looking too ...
I am a big fan of growstones gs-1 which they went out of business and no longer makes however they have them on Amazon right now for $40 shipped for 1.5cuft which is the best deal you will find and cheapest and I would much much rather use gs-1 over hydroton anyday don't have balls rolling all over the place or white mildew/mold on them plus they make your plants alot heavier esp with 10in netpots is a lot of media to clean as well...
Which the gs-1 are a lot easier to clean and keep clean plus the roots grow different even they are a lot thinner and a lot more of them and fuller too..Which in turn saves your netpots from breaking or warping due to thick roots like used to happen when I used hydroton....Also gs-1 have silica in it too although if not washed good enough from the start can have ph swings....
O also u will need to have plants and nutes in the system to fully know what it's going to do ph wise etc....
It is a very rare occasion when the plant needs calcium and mag at the same time usually what u end up doing with calmag is locking one of the nutes out and all you need instead is mgso4 aka epsom salt and calcium nitrate and they are both dirt cheap a few bucks for a few pounds well worth it and will last a hell of a lot longer than a single quart bottle of calmag trash...
Instead of uc roots use pool shock stage 2 is all u need and it's the same thing shit uc roots uses like 0.017% calcium hypochlorite only per bottle which a whole 1lb bag of pool shock is under $5 and will last u years for the samething....
And if u do silica which if u scrog it's a pretty much a must have in rdwc if not ur going to snap branches not gently bend them over use agsil 16h potassium silicate it's cheap as well and will last u a very very long time too just make a stock solution of it and as needed which I quit using about wk3-4 flower but that's just me....

Thanks! That's a few more things to think about down the line. I should be good with cleaning the insides of pipes when they need to be. I'll get a small bottle brush that can fit inside 3/4" pvc...in order to scrub them out.

 

[Substitute]

I've been doing some fooling around with the PH now in the last 16 hours ...and getting to know my ph pen. - In order to dechlorinate and neutralize chloramines I have two products. Campden tablets and API's Proper PH 6.5 (left over from my aquarium days). Both of them neutralize the chlorine's (important), but the Proper PH has the benefit of dropping my baseline PH down to the mid six's. The Proper PH also prevents rebounds. I can use one or the other....so,

As an experiment I went with Proper PH 6.5 and PH down just to see how much of each it would take to get in the range I wanted to be. Then I tested multiple sources of water with different PH's repeatedly to see how my pen would read. All is looking pretty good. Tap water is testing at 7.5. RO at 6.8-6.9...and my res after a full night of mixing etc, is at 5.8-5.9. Res water was high at 8.4 the other day...untreated!!

The interesting thing...is that as well as taking care of the chlorine's...the Proper PH should prevent too high of a rebound. It sets a lower baseline PH...which is kind of a safety net. Plus I can use the PH down acids to lower even further from the mid sixes down to the late 5's...which seems to be where I am at now. When it swings up...it shouldn't swing too high. The amount of work that the Proper PH is doing would probably save alot of PH down!

This is all without nutrient tho...and the nutrient is also designed to stabilize the PH in around the same area. My ppm's went from 230 to 330 post Proper PH...so there's some serious buffering going on there, that I want. Will have to see what happens after 48hrs and further when I add nutrient and UC roots.

Getting to know the Pen has been interesting...and the results have been repeatable, so that's good. PH pen's can be difficult to read if you're not used to them....and how they react. The instructions for my PH pen say to soak it for 10-30 minutes before using, to activate it. I just keep it soaked in RO water all the time and ready.

Proper PH 6.5

 

[Substitute]

Proper PH while having some qualities that I want, appears to bind to trace elements in solution...so apparently, it's not recommended for use with plants.

It could start messing with my Hardwater Floramicro. Crap.

I guess I'll probably have to rely on Hardwater Flora and Ph down alone to hold the PH in the area it's supposed to be. General Hydroponics already ok'd all my previously listed products for use. Still waiting on Hardwater Flora in the mail.That'll be the next test I do as soon as I get it...to see how the PH reacts (everything running, without plants).

 

[starke]

Almost off topic but maybe not: After you get everything sorted, if you find yourself having issues with DWC...you are already about 3/4 of the way to a proper PPK setup. Just food for thought.

 

[Substitute]

Almost off topic but maybe not: After you get everything sorted, if you find yourself having issues with DWC...you are already about 3/4 of the way to a proper PPK setup. Just food for thought.

What's PPK? I've never heard of it?

Yep, I guess this setup would be Undercurrent RDWC that I built. I just copied a couple mainstream designs that I saw.

 

[starke]

PPK - Passive Plant Killer system. Don't be scared by the name. Grows like crazy without the temp issues.

Start with this link: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=292102

Use search to find others. The system has evolved since it's initial concept so be sure to read the later threads.

 

[Substitute]

Thanks. I think I get the general idea. Plants passively wick solution up into a growing media (perlite) from a res with solution below. I can also see how I could be 3/4 of the way there. I basically have the recirculated res...I'd just need the passive pots on top of them, pulling solution up.

Something to think about.

 

[Indiva710]

I've been doing some fooling around with the PH now in the last 16 hours ...and getting to know my ph pen. - In order to dechlorinate and neutralize chloramines I have two products. Campden tablets and API's Proper PH 6.5 (left over from my aquarium days). Both of them neutralize the chlorine's (important), but the Proper PH has the benefit of dropping my baseline PH down to the mid six's. The Proper PH also prevents rebounds. I can use one or the other....so,

As an experiment I went with Proper PH 6.5 and PH down just to see how much of each it would take to get in the range I wanted to be. Then I tested multiple sources of water with different PH's repeatedly to see how my pen would read. All is looking pretty good. Tap water is testing at 7.5. RO at 6.8-6.9...and my res after a full night of mixing etc, is at 5.8-5.9. Res water was high at 8.4 the other day...untreated!!

The interesting thing...is that as well as taking care of the chlorine's...the Proper PH should prevent too high of a rebound. It sets a lower baseline PH...which is kind of a safety net. Plus I can use the PH down acids to lower even further from the mid sixes down to the late 5's...which seems to be where I am at now. When it swings up...it shouldn't swing too high. The amount of work that the Proper PH is doing would probably save alot of PH down!

This is all without nutrient tho...and the nutrient is also designed to stabilize the PH in around the same area. My ppm's went from 230 to 330 post Proper PH...so there's some serious buffering going on there, that I want. Will have to see what happens after 48hrs and further when I add nutrient and UC roots.

Getting to know the Pen has been interesting...and the results have been repeatable, so that's good. PH pen's can be difficult to read if you're not used to them....and how they react. The instructions for my PH pen say to soak it for 10-30 minutes before using, to activate it. I just keep it soaked in RO water all the time and ready.
View Image


Proper PH 6.5
View Image

U shouldn't keep ur pen in ro water that's terrible for it your supposed to use a storage solution actually or if u run out can use calibration ph 7.01 I want to say it is for a short time like a few days until u get the storage solution in...But r/o is almost as bad as letting it dry out just FYI....

 

[Substitute]

U shouldn't keep ur pen in ro water that's terrible for it your supposed to use a storage solution actually or if u run out can use calibration ph 7.01 I want to say it is for a short time like a few days until u get the storage solution in...But r/o is almost as bad as letting it dry out just FYI....

Well, the instructions say soak in distilled or purified water for 10-30 minutes before using...so I figured keeping it in there wouldn't be a big deal. I'll have to check on it...but thanks for pointing that out!

 

[Substitute]

Here's an overall shot of my finished system. I have some 'Cheese' seeds germinating. This is my first ever hydroponics run. I've grown weed before under HID in soil, but this hydroponics stuff is different.

I ended up ripping off all the silicone, and using Gorilla Construction Adhesive instead to fix the bulkhead leaks. It cured harder than the silicone and seems to stick better to the plastic pail. Note: turns out polyethylene pails (food grade) are very difficult to stick things to. The Construction adhesive seems to be better. Fingers crossed.

Also, the light seems to be turning my hydroton white. I think it's calcium from the water?

Edit: one other thing that's good about this setup, is that it can be quickly restructured to be for two buckets, instead of four. Part of the reason for running two plants instead of four would be cost of nutrient solution, etc.

 

[overbudjet]

You are right hydrotron have tendency to turn white when drying mineral deposit. Good job on the clear hose ,still a little peace of it exposed to light. I don't want to bother you with this , but light infiltration is a P.I.T.A. in a RDWC .

BY the way nice system!

 

[Substitute]

Thanks. I was thinking about that little piece. But it shouldn't matter! Right? I'm using UC roots.

I could make a 90 degree angle and put little pieces of insulation. C'mon!