Help please - possible Cal/Mag deficiency? DWC Creme de la Chem

[LeakyBucket]

Single part hydro? I would probably use ionic.

I have never bothered to transition between brands. The only reaction to a change that I have seen, has always been a good one.

Ionic is fully chelated so will offer some resistance towards odd bonding.

I would just buy a small amount. It may be just a transition to yet another feed. It's low my both Ca and Mg, and I'm leaning towards Mg perhaps being a problem for you. Did you give the stones a good pre-treatment?

I don't think the Nova is going to work, but just looking at the leaves that bought you here, a spray of epsom would be interesting

Yeah, I'm gonna have to transition. To what, is the question. Maxibloom as Douglas suggested, or Ionic. Might come down to what I can get within a reasonable time frame.


Hydroton treatment was what I've always done: New stones (same exact bag as previous runs), rinsed with RO, boiled in 5.8 pH RO, rinsed again using 5.8 pH). This has traditionally worked for me for this type of plant, as well as basil and different varieties of peppers. But that doesn't mean I'm not doing something dumb and I've just been getting lucky...


What's weird is that I used the Nova series for my last DWC (2 single 5 gal buckets), and had stupid good yields. Same tools, techniques, and products. Main difference being Mephisto CLDC on this run, and ILGM Do Si Dos on the last.

Tempted to pop another Do Si Dos seed, and put it through the same paces, just to see what happens. What worked for one strain might not necessarily work for another, possibly? <shrug>


pH meters cross-check with each other (and "precision" litmus strips and GH liquid test), EC meters hit close as well, temps are the same (I keep the house at 76F), same lights.


I could be bored, I guess.

 

[negative37dBA]

I run a active aqua 1/10 chiller(the exact one you have listed) on my 32 gallon system. Works perfectly at keeping those temps where you want them. I set mine at 67. I have had it for about 2 years now...no issues.
Have a great day all.
Peace, negative.

 

[Ca++]

It has actually worked with this feed? That's a strong piece of evidence. Did you run the same 5ml?
I would have to check my notes, but iirc I had to back off to 2ml and then put the cal&mag back. This gave a mediocre result, but they lived. Which isn't saying a lot.


That pebble treatment looks problematic. Imagine if you had sacks and sacks, you couldn't boil wash them all. I'm not sure you would want to. Pebbles have a good cec. I wash them and only keep the floaters. It's supplying the cec sites that I concentrate on though. I wonder if you have created a sponge that's robbing your feed.


I just got up.. heavy flu.. I'm not at my best. Sorry if my replies are lacking

 

[LeakyBucket]

It has actually worked with this feed? That's a strong piece of evidence. Did you run the same 5ml?
I would have to check my notes, but iirc I had to back off to 2ml and then put the cal&mag back. This gave a mediocre result, but they lived. Which isn't saying a lot.


That pebble treatment looks problematic. Imagine if you had sacks and sacks, you couldn't boil wash them all. I'm not sure you would want to. Pebbles have a good cec. I wash them and only keep the floaters. It's supplying the cec sites that I concentrate on though. I wonder if you have created a sponge that's robbing your feed.


I just got up.. heavy flu.. I'm not at my best. Sorry if my replies are lacking

Yeah, same exact bottles (Flora Nova Grow and then FN Bloom). 5ml per gallon at peak (I started out light, and then finished light at the end). I do wonder if the nutes are not appreciating being stored in my hot (90*) garage, though. Then again, I've been in a few warehouses that were easily that hot, so who knows?

But yeah, I had 2 monster Do Si Dos plants (I flipped too late, and learned a hard lesson in LST and the stretch). I had to kick one out of the tent, they got so big. Those were photos.

On the pebbles, I just grab what I need from the bag, pH/boil/soak, and toss them at the end of the grow. I've just always started fresh, mostly because they're cheap and I've always considered them an expendable resource. Perhaps I should change my game there? The boiling would take care of any nasties that might have cropped up during the previous grow, so it might be a wash. And I'm Googling CEC now, and will have learned something there soon, hopefully. I knew that pebbles can alter your pH (usually upwards), but never considered that they might be robbing nutes. Hmm.

I've done a lot of the dumb things, and have gotten lucky through most of them, it seems. I figure if I make all the mistakes, I'll have finally figured it out!

No worries on your posts; I really appreciate the dialog, and I hope you get to feeling better soon!

 

[Ca++]

Cheers pal.

I ran pebbles for many years. Flood&Drain 1/2" balls. They riddle quite well. I liked the reusable nature. I was going to perforate a cement mixer at one time, so you can imagine it's was more sacks than I wanted to carry. I baked them on trays if I was unhappy. They fill with bio matter over time, which I found an improvement. The first use was particularly unpalatable. Having that dry clay taste that gets better with repeated use.

I always wanted to find something else, but replacing them is difficult.

 

[LeakyBucket]

Update: So, I'm getting more proficient at rez changes than I wanted to, LOL.

Mixed:

• 2 gal RO water (0 EC, 7.0 pH)
• 5ml Maxi Bloom
• 1/8 tsp (.5 gram) Epsom (Magnesium Sulfate USP, 9.8% Mg, 12.9% Sulfur), Saltworks brand
• 2 tsp Hydroguard

Post mix (in that order above), it was at 1.0 EC (510ppm on 500 scale, 511 micro-Siemens on the cheapie meter). pH was at 4.5, so about 60 drops of pH Up brought me to 5.8.

Now here's what's interesting (possibly): About 5 minutes after I deployed the new solution, I re-measured the pH, and it was at 6.1 (per both meters and litmus strip). Hmm. 5 drops of pH Down pushed it back to 5.8, but that .3 bump in the rez caught my attention. Anything to that? Pebbles? Natural rise in pH due to bubbles?

Will be keeping a close eye on the pH (and everything else). Fingers crossed - thanks everyone for your help! Owe y'all some beer or something.


Oh yeah, incidentally, when I asked the guys at the hydro shop what their thoughts were, they were like "Oh yeah, that's normal with autos. They always drop their leaves like that." ... "OK, thanks! I'll just take this Maxi..."

 

[LeakyBucket]

Cheers pal.

I ran pebbles for many years. Flood&Drain 1/2" balls. They riddle quite well. I liked the reusable nature. I was going to perforate a cement mixer at one time, so you can imagine it's was more sacks than I wanted to carry. I baked them on trays if I was unhappy. They fill with bio matter over time, which I found an improvement. The first use was particularly unpalatable. Having that dry clay taste that gets better with repeated use.

I always wanted to find something else, but replacing them is difficult.

Yeah, the more I think about your experience, the more I'm inclined to stop tossing them, and start reusing them. And approach their first use differently as well.

Especially seeing that .3 rise in pH a few minutes ago. That might've been due to something else, but it's a data point and it does lend credence to your comments...

 

[Ca++]

I just noticed the non-standard measurements. You are putting 5ml of feed in.. I'm not sure how much water to be honest. I thought we were talking liters though. I grabbed an old bottle and it says 0.625ml per liter for seedlings. Which seems to be about what you are mixing up.
Such a low feed level would be easily effected by most influences. You might need to bolster the tank with a bit more. It's a tough call with autos though, as there is no recovering from mistakes.

Your need for UP might stem from a lack of feed. New pebbles seem to make a lot of dust that shows as a pH shift that's not worth chasing too desperately. I really don't like having to start again with new pebbles.


I think you raised you Mg about 5-6ppm. It's going to be inconsequential. If you want to look at Mg on it's own, foliar application is the way. With a lot more than that (brain fog.. sorry)

 

[LeakyBucket]

I just noticed the non-standard measurements. You are putting 5ml of feed in.. I'm not sure how much water to be honest. I thought we were talking liters though. I grabbed an old bottle and it says 0.625ml per liter for seedlings. Which seems to be about what you are mixing up.
Such a low feed level would be easily effected by most influences. You might need to bolster the tank with a bit more. It's a tough call with autos though, as there is no recovering from mistakes.

Your need for UP might stem from a lack of feed. New pebbles seem to make a lot of dust that shows as a pH shift that's not worth chasing too desperately. I really don't like having to start again with new pebbles.


I think you raised you Mg about 5-6ppm. It's going to be inconsequential. If you want to look at Mg on it's own, foliar application is the way. With a lot more than that (brain fog.. sorry)

The 5ml of Maxi Bloom was for 2 gal of RO H2O (first item in list above). Which coincides to .625ml to 1 liter of water, by my math (which might be wrong?). Then I added the 1/8 tsp of Epsom (because Douglas said he uses "just a pinch").

I try to use the same measurements across the board, but did mention tsp on the Hydroguard and gallons on the water. What Units of Measure should I be using here (ml, tsp, grams, liters, etc.)? I want to be sure I'm communicating effectively.


I've been reading up on foliar spray (with Epsom), and I'm reading 1 TBSP (15ml) per gallon. And that it is difficult to OD the plant with Epsom (within reason). And to wait until lights out, so as to avoid burning the leaves with focused light. Does that sound about right?

I can add a little more Maxi Bloom, if you think 1/2 tsp per gallon is too light. That rate yielded 1.0 EC, which seemed reasonable (but I've never used this nute before, so...).


Edit: I do actually know the (rough) PPM that the Epsom raised the solution by (according to my meter's conversion): It went up 20 ppm, from 490 to 510 (I measure pH & EC at every step of the mixing process, just to ensure I didn't do something dumb). 20 ppm is probably still inconsequential, though, I take it?

Edit 2: I mixed a solution of 1 liter RO water + 3ml Epsom salt, put it in a brand-new spray bottle, and gave a decent misting of foliar application on her. I shut the light down while it absorbs/dries, and will resume lighting on the next cycle in 9 hours.


Thanks again!

 

[Ca++]

I'm going to have to back out here. I'm making mistakes. You switched food and I didn't even notice.

 

[LeakyBucket]

I'm going to have to back out here. I'm making mistakes. You switched food and I didn't even notice.

No worries, my friend. I appreciate all of your advice, I learned a lot from you, and I hope you get better soon!

 

[LeakyBucket]

Update: I think we might be out of the woods here. The change from Flora Nova to Maxi Bloom + Epsom, and probably also the Epsom foliar spray, seems to have mitigated the issue. The old damage remains (as expected), but the plant is a lot more green and lush looking, and she's still rocking along.

Whether or not she freaked out and got triggered to flower early remains to be seen, but I'll see soon enough.

A big "thank you" to Ca++, Douglas.Curtis, Creeperpark, and exploziv for their time and guidance. It definitely was welcome and helpful advice!