Help Me Turn My Attic into a Grow Space!

[B. Self Reliant]

I used Canon's 100mm f/2.8 1x macro lens on a 5D MkII. Probably could have shot it with a 70-200mm f/2.8L because I was nowhere near the minimum focusing distance for the macro lens.

(2) Canon speedlights were used to light it, one on a TTL cord & one triggered via pocketwizards. Hit it & quit it.

I wish I could get better images of my plants but it's an inherent disadvantage of my particular space. Oh well, at least macros are always an option. . .

 

[B. Self Reliant]

Day 54 Flowering - Harvest!

Day 54 Flowering - Harvest!

Both LA Confidentials under the SCROG net have been harvested & are hanging on lines. Many lessons learned. The LED and the SCROG method are both rock solid, the only problems were with the gardener!

More bud than expected. Quality appears to be on par with HPS, as usual. Images & dry weights to follow.

 

[B. Self Reliant]

Lessons Learned

Lessons Learned

This thread is in the Growroom Designs & Equipment forum for a reason. In the past I’ve gone overboard when designing/building a space, only to find out ofter a run or two that my initial plan needs to be changed significantly. On top of that, this grow incorporated a ton of new elements & ideas that I had never tried before, so in the theme of learning from my mistakes, I tried to keep the build as simple as possible. I figured I’d view it as a dry run and at the very least have a little early summer boost to my head stash jars & go into the first grow with my new AK-47 mom having learned many of the hardest lessons already.

I had a few goals with this run. . .

• Give my new space a try with no ventilation plan other than an open door and an oscillating fan to see how much heat LED’s really put off.

• Try using a SCROG net to maximize yields & control vertical height.

• See if eliminating runoff in coco has any negative consequences.

• Grow a little head stash! 3 or 4 months ago I had some LA Confidential cuts hanging around that were about to go into the trash, and my AK-47 mom wasn’t even old enough to be sexed yet, so rather than have this space sit empty, I threw the LAC cuts in even though I knew indicas weren’t ideal for a SCROG.

In terms of the ventilation plan, I learned quite a bit. I was worried about the heat from the LED’s in the flowering area, but the two T5 fixtures in the veg area were what generated all the heat! Once those were pulled out & replaced with a 126 watt LED fixture, the heat wasn’t a problem at all. I’m glad I didn’t run duct work and cut through drywall, etc, because my plan would have changed anyways. For next run, the internal circulation system (4” vortex + Phresh filter) will still be pulling from the veg area and running back through the crawl space, but it’s now going to dump into the house & a passive intake will be added to the flowering side. This will better control the smell through a true negative pressure system & it will still keep the two spaces the same temp, but it’ll also equalize the temp in the garden with the temp in the house.

Speaking of the veg area, that’s what I’m most excited about this run. Getting rid of those T5’s was glorious! This is my veg area right now. It’s so low-maintenance it’s disgusting. The LED is still hanging is a fixed position and everything from seedlings to 18” tall plants love it as long as I even out the canopy by raising up the small plants. Right now I have (21) Maroc, (5) C99 Hybrid, (4) LA Confidential, (1) AK-47 stud, (6) AK-47 gals, (6) Early girl kids of three different pheno’s, (3) Killer Casey & (2) Casey’s Dream going in there & I can honestly say that I lack no space. Once the outdoor plants go out, I’ll be able to repot & still be comfortable. I will never veg under T5’s again!

Eliminating the runoff in the coco had no negative consequences. I used Crazy Composer’s method described in the link I posted earlier. It works like a charm, it teaches you about the strains you’re growing by giving you feedback and it eliminates the hassle of dealing with wastewater. I will be using CC’s method from now on.

The problem I ran into with my medium/nutrients was my own fault. I wanted to be able to leave for a week at a time, so I figured putting my plants in large containers would allow me to do that without any negative consequences. Wrong! My plants spent their whole lives needing a snorkel to breathe because the medium was too saturated. The growth rate was half of what I was used to & the plants never got very big despite lots of light and otherwise great conditions. I had to give them water for the oxygen it in, but I was drowning them in the long run. As a result I couldn’t really flush them very well. If I would have flushed the nutrients out I’m not sure they would have ever recovered. Tiny plant in huge pots will never be done again!

I complain a lot, but all in all it looks great and the fixes for next run are very cheap & easy!

The SCROG net. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! What was I thinking using 1” chicken wire?! I can’t imagine. I guess I was thinking that because I wasn’t using a great strain for SCROG, and because LAC’s nodes are so close, I would compensate by using a small screen. All it did was make it impossible to get under there, made it harder to train the branches and it eventually grew so thick that this is what every branch looks like. Nice buds up top and as you go down they get worse & worse. It wasn’t the LED that didn’t penetrate, it was that I knew I needed to trim underneath to eliminate the mat that had formed, but I couldn’t get to it so it just got worse & worse. I’ll be SCROGin again to be sure since it kept the plants low, but I’ll be using larger netting and switching to a modular SCROG like VerdantGreen’s so I can pull the plants out to work on them if need be.

I'm also going to buy myself some vertical headspace (to be used UNDER the net) by switching to HydroGrow LED's new Generation-X Pro Model. The coverage will still be more than adequate (each covers a 2'x2' area), but instead of measuring 19"x19" it measures 13" x13", which allows me to hang it higher due to my canted ceiling. The smaller the unit, the higher it can be hung. . .

Those are 4’ lines with a standard pair of Fiskar clippers in the middle. The final yield was 72 grams after popcorn was separated. Not great, but the run was worth it based on what I learned. I'm in the process of setting up another grow space in my house, this one's a small vertical bare bulb room, so I'm using it as a drying room to make sure the negative pressure system is working properly. No better way to test a new space than to dry in it I guess. . .

Although 2.5 zips isn’t a lot of bud for this fixture, I think that I can get 6 zips in the same situation next run. I only filled up half of the space, my plants were struggling due to me drowning them, and LAC is a lower yielding strain. By using AK-47 in 2.5 gallon containers, that are vegged properly and under a decent modular SCROG screen, I think I can do quite well in this space. Throw in the fact that I can fit 2-3 more LED’s in there for a total of 3x the square footage & I see quite a bit of potential!

 

[Hovz]

Nice harvest, i'll smoke a blunt in celebration for ya

 

[GAME]

I like the setup, very nice

 

[DnKNg5]

Can't wait to see what happens next round when you get the rest of your LED's in! That thread by crazy composer about container size and root propagation was very helpful for me to determine how and when I needed to repot before flowering. Can't wait to get back to my kiddies so I can flip the switch!

 

[B. Self Reliant]

Can't wait to see what happens next round when you get the rest of your LED's in! That thread by crazy composer about container size and root propagation was very helpful for me to determine how and when I needed to repot before flowering. Can't wait to get back to my kiddies so I can flip the switch!

I think it's one of the best threads here at IC Mag, simply because it's such an overlooked topic. I grew the same way for so long that I got into a routine and now trying to grow larger plants was blowing my mind. I found it to be quote a help.

Yeah next round should be killer. I just got done repotting 4 of the 6 AK gals for the next grow. This next round will be in the vertical HPS room though. Hopefully I harvest enough to buy the LED's I need to finish this space off. I'm not sure I'll run the flowering side again until I have it full of lights. It's just not worth running it with a single light when for under $1,500 I could fill all 15 sq ft of the flowering side with light and make it worth my time & effort.

The veg side is doing great & that's going to be going for a while I'd imagine. I anticipate that it'll be able to supply all 3 grow spaces in my house with vegged plants, as well as be big enough to start my outdoor plants.

 

[pearlemae]

Nice grow, great stealth space. I'm looking forward to going LED when the cash is right. But for now my T5s will suffice.

 

[B. Self Reliant]

Yeah T5's work great for low & even canopys, contrary to popular belief. I can tell you that your heat will go down significantly when you make the switch to LED's. A single 2' T5 bulb runs hotter in my space than my whole 205 watt HGL LED fixture. That's sayin' something!

 

[B. Self Reliant]

Well, I told myself I wouldn't run this space again until I had the cash to fill it all the way up with LED fixtures. It looks like that won't be the case. I have a couple other grows going on right now and I just don't have the cash to invest in $5,000 worth of LED's at the moment, but that's no reason to let it sit empty. . .

As of a few weeks ago, there are (3) AK-47 gals under the 126 watt LED. I'm flowering my 5 square foot veg area because my moms are somewhere else, I don't have anything else that needs to veg in there, & I want to see what this 126 watt LED is capable of as far as flowering goes. I would also like to correct the mistakes from my last run while they're still fresh in my mind.

I'll post pics soon, but despite losing 79 watts of LED power (last grow was with a 205 watt LED from the same company), this grow is going much better than my last run. Containers size, height restrictions, the type of netting used for the SCROG. . . all of these things were jacked up last run but have since been addressed & corrected.

As a result of all those changes, this grow is chugging right along at an epic pace. The plants were vegged for quite a while before the net was put on, they only needed about 2 weeks to fill up the net, and they've been flowering now for about a week. I don't like to predict harvest numbers because they're never quite what you thought they'd be, but I will say that if this run with Serious Seed's AK-47 under a 126 watt LED doesn't greatly out-produce my last run with LA Confidential under a 205 watt LED grow I'll be VERY surprised.

 

[B. Self Reliant]

Progress Made

Progress Made

This is in the growroom design & equipment forum, so I guess I should show how things have shaped up over time. As promised, here's some pics from this morning.

There are (2) AK-47's in those black 2.25 gallon containers. There's an unannounced mystery plant in that front 1-gallon container, and another AK-47 in a 1-gallon container in the back. The structure of this plant is much better suited to SCROGging. Also, I've learned enough about SCROGs to know that the higher your net is above the medium, the more the net separates the branches rather than truly horizontalizing them. The lower the net is, the more true textbook training you'll have to do. This grow is a little bit of both, and I'd say the container size & space between the net & medium is about perfect for this particular space & strain.

This is my nice, even & full canopy! Much different from last time. I vegged for less than half the time, my net is actually full, and it looks like my harvest could be as much as twice as much as last time. What's not to like? A single topped AK is filling up about 60% of the space. Last time my back never filled up (found out plants don't grow away from the light, open space or not), so this time I vegged an AK pretty tall, but in a skinny container that didn't allow for much side branching. When I transplanted it, I put it sideways and it fit the back wall's 30" span perfectly! The next day all the little branches were starting to grow up through the net to fill in the empty space. I will be doing that again. In fact, I could see lining all 4 walls of a small space like this as being close to an ideal way to SCROG. The plants seem to grow into the light much faster than away from it, plus you can guarantee that your edges are filled.

This 2"x4" welded wire fencing seems to be the perfect SCROG screen. It doesn't need a frame because it has enough structure to support itself and the force of the plants constantly pushing up. It really made a big difference to be able to have the net right up to the wall instead of having to use some sort of PVC or wood frame. I'm excited to see how these AK's turn out. This midwest heat wave is lasting for weeks and I don't want to end up with fluffy AK, so hopefully it cools off soon. . .

 

[DnKNg5]

Wow, that looks exponentially better then the last round. That larger screen looks like it's probably much easier to use as well.

 

[B. Self Reliant]

That larger screen looks like it's probably much easier to use as well.

Granted, it's only 5 square feet, but I haven't spent more than 5 minutes any given day in that space. It's very easy to work with all that space between the medium & the net, plus the new is of a proper size.

 

[B. Self Reliant]

There are (2) AK-47's in those black 2.25 gallon containers. There's an unannounced mystery plant in that front 1-gallon container, and another AK-47 in a 1-gallon container in the back.

The unannounced mystery plant is a female! She was from seed, but taking foreeeeeeeeever to show sex. I was in the process of building a new veg space & she was the last remaining plant that needed to go, so I threw her into the LED Tunnel to flower. I don't know what happens when you try to flower a sexually immature plant, but I don't intend to find out. Now that I know she's a gal, I'm going to throw her into my new veg space and put her back on a 24/0 light schedule so I can have a new mom. Very stoked!

 

[budelight]

Beautiful Grow BSR, Can you help me understand Why the 2 inch wire is easier to work with? Also, where did you get your LED's and what was the investment cost, if you dont mind me asking?!?

Cheers,
Budelight

 

[B. Self Reliant]

It's not that the larger net was just easier to work with, it's an absolute necessity. The 1" netting actually hurt my yield. The purpose of a SCROG net is to maximize your light & space by evening out the canopy and allowing the light to penetrate evenly. The 1" stuff not only failed to do that, but once the plant got bigger I couldn't get the branches back out, so the mat became a clusterfuck that was unfixable.

I posted this pic earlier in the thread. It's one of the many branches harvested last run and it's pretty typical of my overall results. See all that light green stuff at the bottom of the branch? It's light green because it hasn't received any light . It's small leaves & popcorn bud on the bottom half of every branch.

If you really think about how large a 1" hole is, I think you'll understand why it's tough to use. When your plants are vegging they're soft & supple so they bend easily. Even then 1" is too small, but it's doable at that point because the side branches haven't started growing up & through the net yet. When the mature branches start hardening into those stiff woody feeling limbs we all know & love, and the small side branches start growing up & through, it becomes tough to rearrange things to even out the canopy. Imagine trying to move a mature flowering branch like the one in pic above when every side branch has now grown up through its own hole in the netting. . . it's not happening. The 2"x4" stuff is polar opposite. Even with a branchier strain that's already 2 weeks into flowering, I can still move large branches around to make the most of my space. The smaller netting is also made of very thin wire as opposed to thicker gauge stuff, and as a result the thin stuff get caught in every node and leaf on the plant, whereas the thicker stuff is not thin or sharp enough to damage the plants when you're moving them around.

For all the research I did on SCROGs, I have to say there wasn't much good info out there. It was very much a trial & error type of thing for me. The best advice I can give is to use a branchy strain, remember that the plants are going to want to grow INTO the light so place them accordingly, & leave more room than you need between the medium & the netting. A lot of folks say 9" around here, but I'd never run 9" again. 14" seems more like it, especially with small numbers of larger plants.

Also, even though it's not as big of a reason, the fact that the welded wire fencing I'm using now holds it's shape without a frame is incredibly convenient & efficient.

 

[B. Self Reliant]

Drum roll please. . . .

The unannounced mystery plant is a Casey's Dream. . . and it's a girl! I put her under the LED with the flowering AK's because she was being stubborn about lifting up her skirt a bit to show me her sex and I wanted to speed up the process a bit. A couple days ago she popped out some white hairs though, so now I'm a happy man! She's now livin' the dream in my swanky new veg cab, waiting for her time to shine. Two others were males that were culled, and one is still unsexed. Nice to know I have at least one female already in the bag though.

I won't post a pic until she's a little bigger, but she's got a great sativa-ish structure to her and she's grown very vigorously so far, so I'm excited. The other Casey's Dream that's still unsexed is a very different looking plant with tighter node spacing than I've ever seen on a plant before. It really is crazy! If it's also a female it should be an interesting side by side comparison. I never had the privilege of getting my hands on a Blue Dream cut when I lived out west, and I've also never grown the notorious Casey Jones, so this plant should prove to be a learning experience. . . .

 

[budelight]

Excited to see how things turn out BSR!

You certainly have the perfect growroom to be experimenting with these puppies!

 

[DnKNg5]

Can't wait to see how things turn out with the Casey's Dream! I'm hoping my kids will still be alive when I get back. 5 days seems like such a long time...

 

[B. Self Reliant]

Can't wait to see how things turn out with the Casey's Dream! I'm hoping my kids will still be alive when I get back. 5 days seems like such a long time...

Your thread needs some picture updates when you get back!

Caring for seedlings & clones is such a hassle for small scale gardeners. It's pretty tough to leave town at that point IMHO, but once you commit to a particular space (your cab, a tent, whatever) you can automate pretty easily & inexpensively.

I haven't found a practical way to mist my humidity dome & get fresh air under there a couple times a day other than to do it by hand, but once the dome is off my clones at day 7 or so, the watering of the cloning plugs or rockwool cubes can easily be automated. Once you have something like that set up, you just learn to plan around the week that you need to be around because they're under a dome.