Help me design commercial op, large budget, and I will post journal here.

[Mr.Jones]

The only issue I could see there would be maintaing the different mothers. Do the strains mentioned all have similar growth genetics as far as size and lack of bushiness?

i think ak47, HDF and endless sky should grow similar but im not sure about the nl#5xhaze (which was supposed to be one of the best or even the best sativa commercial strain available a few years back but i read many ppl complaining that their seeds they purchased in the last time were crap) ...

keeping mothers shouldnt be the problem i hope!

but i got to admit i havent had the pleasure to grow one of this strains - its just what i would do if one would put 4kw of lights in my house. anyways HDF and AK47 are proven cash croppers

 

[mrred]

youre going want a mh lamp,might as well go with a 1000w for vegging and a seperate room of course and grow different strains on each table and spread the harvest times over 2 months so you dont have a huge workload cloning,trimming and cleaning, and save room in the veg rooom

 

[Ender]

i'm considering the "seemorebuds" 15lbs in 80 days method, but i'm concearned about electricity costs and usage.....more info coming soon..

 

[apartmentblower]

i'm considering the "seemorebuds" 15lbs in 80 days method, but i'm concearned about electricity costs and usage.....more info coming soon..

your running a commercial grow and your worried about electricity usage? i think you got bigger things to worry about than electricity usage, depending on where you live.
ive seen the seemorebuds videos and although they are a good way to visualize exactly what a particular room looks like and the process from start to finish, ive seen much better designed shows on here


u mentioned al b fucts perpetual harvest. why dont you try a setup like his? personally id start with only 1 or 2 strains to simplify things... although i cant take that advice myself so what do i know

 

[mrred]

http://www.super-grow.biz/Electricity.jsp khw calculator

 

[masterKahn]

Put in a flip flop you would spend about $300-500 for a small one and only need half the ballasts. That alone would pay for itself. You could spilt the room and run room A for 12 hours then Room B for 12 hours. It would only draw a constant 2000 watts with no power spikes.

 

[MarquisBlack]

Ender Wiggin, the Xenocide...

Best of luck.

 

[GorillaGrower]

hey ender.. I appreciate what your trying to do.. I wouldn't mind some homegrown smoke right now actually ;D .

If there was any advice I could give.. it would be to start small and keep it simple. it would be to worry about a veg room and sorting out genetics.. BEFORE you rent a whole house and setup.. if at all possible.

why?
1. seed plants take longer to harvest than clones,, so right away having proven clones ready to go would cut down on the initial first harvest.
2. waiting for you seed plants to veg till they are ready will take a little while (spending money on rent for the house while your just veggin is costly)
3.spending $1000 on seeds is just not necessary at this point.. from experience I can tell you that you will get overwelmed trying to sort through a hundred to 2hundred plants trying to find a keeper. To properly sort through genetics.. one must flower at least 2-3 runs of clones of the initial seed mothers because often times the best smelling flowering or fastest clone may not show until the mother plant is at least 3-6 mo. old. This is a daunting task that you may very well be able to complete.. but .. I am positive that you will not do as good as a job.. with hundreds instead of just 30.


so with that said I would focus on two things..

finding a closet that you own or a trusted friend does(he doesn't need to know your gonna take clones and use them later) and grow out your mothers there.. run at least one run their.. that way when you rent your house.. you will have atleast a paired down selection of mothers( maybe 5-10) out of 30-40 seeds started. AND the mothers will be almost mature.. meaning the clones will be close to their potential for your real flower runs. a 400 watt light, dirt, buckets and filter is all you need for this stage.

2.. I would spend much less on seeds at first.. Now adays there are soo many small companies selling seeds for 30-40 $ .. some of the biggest plants i've seen were from just regualr nirvana stock.. I would get several packs of these.. if not get a 10 packs per $120 deal (if they stil have that on seebay) .. DJ short isn't a bad choice.. along with all the other big names that have good stuff.. ie Mr nice.. what I wouldn't do is buy anything that has been advertised as the best of 09 by hightimes.

I had a good friend who ignored my advice.. and bought $1000 plus worth of beans just this last year.. he bought everything on the hightimes list.. in the end he admitted it was too many plants to keep up with, most wasn't half as good as the stuff its supposed to be, and in the end he wound up getting so overwelmed he cloned everything and just put it outside. clusterfuck! oh yeah did i mention hermies ;D

point is.. get your veg together first.. then rent the op. btw hope this doesn't sound like im talking down to you.. I'm sure most of the folks here understand what im saying tho. often times the stuff like co2 is on your mind.. when just being very good at cloning is way more important.

 

[~fvk~]

Put in a flip flop you would spend about $300-500 for a small one and only need half the ballasts. That alone would pay for itself. You could spilt the room and run room A for 12 hours then Room B for 12 hours. It would only draw a constant 2000 watts with no power spikes.

Yep, or you can just build one with 2 relays for under a hundred bones. Hydro store relays are rip offs. They're shit compared to some of the ones I've seen around on here, let alone mine. I'd totally go flip if you're worried about high usage. Without spikes, it just looks like high energy consumption, instead of screaming "large grow op." You can harvest every month, with a lot more ease than a standard perpetual grow.

 

[masterKahn]

a space heater runs @ 1500 watts a fridge could be 1000+ and two PCs could be 1000watts easy. with a flip flop and ballasts on non stop it would be nearly undetectable by looking at your electricity usage.

I know fat people who have three fridges! more then people living in the house.

As far as starting small i agree 100%, however our little battle school graduate here Ender has his mind made up I think. Large grows have alot of issues and problems to work out. It WILL be a full time job. Experience helps ALOT.

If you can ender start small with a 400hps in a cabinet and order two or three packs of good seeds and select some good mothers. That way when you move into your house you will have clones to drop into media and flower right away.

side note I read all the ender books before I found out Orson Scott Card was a homophobic nazi ass evil little man. He went on record as saying anyone who spoke out against the wars and president Bush should be put to death, and he was serious.

 

[mrred]

i would recommend buying a 400w+ mh, or cmh(uses a hps ballast), i dont know how many watts you need for veg but it might be 1000 when you get everything running, 5,000 watts is nothing, a small space heater is 1200 watts, last winter i was running a 2400w space heater, just for my room, then when youre out in the country theres people that use all kinds of eletricity on their farms, people that get caught because of eletrcity are usally stealing it.

 

[Ender]

hey guys, sorry for the delay in responding, I've been very busy lately with getting everything together.

I think I phrased it poorly. I'm not worried about electricity usage drawing attention. In capitalist countries the private sector enjoys bottom lines much more than justice.

I'm concearned more with month to month overhead costs, while I'm still waiting for the income to start.

But, the good news is, I'm working with 12k minimum as a starting budget, as opposed to 10. I might have up to 16K. I'm waiting to see how much I am going to get for a few things on craigslist and also how much my fall harvest brings in. Outdoor yields are tough to predict, and Fla's storm season (amongst other factors as I'm sure you know) can change things in the blink of an eye. The wholesale prices also vary year to year around winter, depending on how well the other growers do.

Unfortunatly (and fortunatly ), most of my old friends / clients know other people just like me, but hey, competition ultimatly benefits the consumers and drives me to strive for the highest quality product, so it's a good thing

Also, note that I have an additional 10k or so to work with by late Febuary / Early March, so I am not TOO concerned with the overhead wiping me out while I'm waiting for the indoor harvests.

One of the reason's I've started to reconsider running a similar op to AL B is because during a brainstorming session, I decided that I don't want the OP to be running during distribution, if possible. However, this is course may be a reality I will be forced to face. No risk no reward of course, but I firmly believe that the successful ones are those who manage the risk the best.

As for SMB ...I feel that he may have inflated his harvest #'s as well in a subtle effort to promote the aquamist systems. 1GPW (especially without CO2) doesn't seem realistic there, though I could be wrong of course. I also feel that the amount of plants required would take quite the clone factory, and I don't think I'm willing to wait that long for them. If I do it Al B Fuct style, I don't think 96 plants started from seed will be my undoing. Here's why --

The genetics from my first harvest will obviously be poor. because of all the seeds. HOWEVER -- My mothers will be started at the exact same time as all the other plants. In other words, I'd be starting with all four trays running on the same 8 week cycle. Once that harvest is finished, I'll be staggering the cycles to a 2 week difference from better genetics, because the mothers and clones will be ready to rock by then. But I think the initial harvest will be important financially, because it will relieve the financial strain placed on me by waiting for the mothers and clones to mature in the meantime @ $1500+ a month in rent/electricity/South FLA COL overhead.

Put in a flip flop you would spend about $300-500 for a small one and only need half the ballasts. That alone would pay for itself. You could spilt the room and run room A for 12 hours then Room B for 12 hours. It would only draw a constant 2000 watts with no power spikes.

OMG, LOL. GREAT IDEA!!! Can't believe I didn't think of that myself, but so glad you mentioned it!!!

hey ender.. I appreciate what your trying to do.. I wouldn't mind some homegrown smoke right now actually ;D .

If there was any advice I could give.. it would be to start small and keep it simple. it would be to worry about a veg room and sorting out genetics.. BEFORE you rent a whole house and setup.. if at all possible.

why?
1. seed plants take longer to harvest than clones,, so right away having proven clones ready to go would cut down on the initial first harvest.
2. waiting for you seed plants to veg till they are ready will take a little while (spending money on rent for the house while your just veggin is costly)
3.spending $1000 on seeds is just not necessary at this point.. from experience I can tell you that you will get overwelmed trying to sort through a hundred to 2hundred plants trying to find a keeper. To properly sort through genetics.. one must flower at least 2-3 runs of clones of the initial seed mothers because often times the best smelling flowering or fastest clone may not show until the mother plant is at least 3-6 mo. old. This is a daunting task that you may very well be able to complete.. but .. I am positive that you will not do as good as a job.. with hundreds instead of just 30.


so with that said I would focus on two things..

finding a closet that you own or a trusted friend does(he doesn't need to know your gonna take clones and use them later) and grow out your mothers there.. run at least one run their.. that way when you rent your house.. you will have atleast a paired down selection of mothers( maybe 5-10) out of 30-40 seeds started. AND the mothers will be almost mature.. meaning the clones will be close to their potential for your real flower runs. a 400 watt light, dirt, buckets and filter is all you need for this stage.


2.. I would spend much less on seeds at first.. Now adays there are soo many small companies selling seeds for 30-40 $ .. some of the biggest plants i've seen were from just regualr nirvana stock.. I would get several packs of these.. if not get a 10 packs per $120 deal (if they stil have that on seebay) .. DJ short isn't a bad choice.. along with all the other big names that have good stuff.. ie Mr nice.. what I wouldn't do is buy anything that has been advertised as the best of 09 by hightimes.

I had a good friend who ignored my advice.. and bought $1000 plus worth of beans just this last year.. he bought everything on the hightimes list.. in the end he admitted it was too many plants to keep up with, most wasn't half as good as the stuff its supposed to be, and in the end he wound up getting so overwelmed he cloned everything and just put it outside. clusterfuck! oh yeah did i mention hermies ;D

point is.. get your veg together first.. then rent the op. btw hope this doesn't sound like im talking down to you.. I'm sure most of the folks here understand what im saying tho. often times the stuff like co2 is on your mind.. when just being very good at cloning is way more important.

Not all all brother. I only detected someone trying to help. Those who can not take criticism and profit from it are usualy destined to fail, unless the criticism was without merit, which yours was far from.

great advice. I really appreciate the time and detail that went into it. I can def. see wisdom and experience behind your words.

As far as starting small i agree 100%, however our little battle school graduate here Ender has his mind made up I think. Large grows have alot of issues and problems to work out. It WILL be a full time job. Experience helps ALOT.

You are dead on. I spent over a year preparing financially, and I have sacrificed greatly to make it to this point. Though I know it would be ideal to start with only mothers, I'm just not willing to at this point. The reasoning behind it was mentioned earlier in this post.

side note I read all the ender books before I found out Orson Scott Card was a homophobic nazi ass evil little man. He went on record as saying anyone who spoke out against the wars and president Bush should be put to death, and he was serious.

lol. yeah, I know, I remember reading about that.

 

[mrred]

oh yea, dont tell no one your doing this. dont have your buddys help build the rooms or whatever, youll have plenty of time while the seeds are growing. read the security thread

 

[MarquisBlack]

oh yea, dont tell no one your doing this. dont have your buddys help build the rooms or whatever, youll have plenty of time while the seeds are growing. read the security thread

For real.

 

[Ender]

oh yea, dont tell no one your doing this. dont have your buddys help build the rooms or whatever, youll have plenty of time while the seeds are growing. read the security thread

heard and agreed

 

[Dhude]

As far as spending as I need it, well, I always have had a burning hole in my pocket. But the way I control it, now, is to satisfy my need to spend by purchasing assets, not liabilities.

Pay attention, kids. This is some of the best advice you will ever get about anything in your life. Assets produce income...they pay you; liabilities require inputs and bleed you. A car, boat, etc is a liability, you have to maintain it and put fuel in it while it loses resale value. Bonds, equities, cashflow-positive rental property (among other things) are assets.

Condition yourself to want assets, rather than wanting things (hard to do since our entire media and economy is wired to sell you shit you don't need). If you have the attitude quoted above, and are looking to build a portfolio of income producing assets, and that satiates your desire to spend..you've almost won the game already. You just have to see it through for a decade or so. Seems like a long time when you're 20....seems like a short time when you're 35.

But when you follow that path, and acquire a large asset base that puts off enough passive income to pay your living expenses...then you are truly free and financially independent. Retirement within 10 years (I mean permanent retirement, not just from growing) is easily possible with the right attitude and judicious planning.

 

[Lazyman]

Pay attention, kids. This is some of the best advice you will ever get about anything in your life. Assets produce income...they pay you; liabilities require inputs and bleed you. A car, boat, etc is a liability, you have to maintain it and put fuel in it while it loses resale value. Bonds, equities, cashflow-positive rental property (among other things) are assets.

Condition yourself to want assets, rather than wanting things (hard to do since our entire media and economy is wired to sell you shit you don't need). If you have the attitude quoted above, and are looking to build a portfolio of income producing assets, and that satiates your desire to spend..you've almost won the game already. You just have to see it through for a decade or so. Seems like a long time when you're 20....seems like a short time when you're 35.

But when you follow that path, and acquire a large asset base that puts off enough passive income to pay your living expenses...then you are truly free and financially independent. Retirement within 10 years (I mean permanent retirement, not just from growing) is easily possible with the right attitude and judicious planning.

I agree with this. The best investment I can make right now is back into my op, or more precisely, a new, very large op. I like to bite off a little more than I think I can chew, and then make it work. I don't know how to fail, and will never give up, so this is a good tactic for me.

 

[dj digigrow]

update?

update?

how's it going? everything going to plan? what system did you end up using? what strains did you end up running?

 

[StealthSniper]

Hey ender, just read through your future plans and wish you all the luck and skill needed!

My suggestions: Don't do a perpetual grow, it'll drive you crazy (mixing different nutes, trimming every month or more, multi stage veg, etc). Second, don't start from seed first time around, find a good clone source and use that, then start seeding separately to your hearts content. It will get you into the returns a lot faster. Finally, don't worry about starting with a few 1K's, you have the outdoor experience which you'll take indoors.

The way you're doing your due diligence, I'm sure you'll do just fine!

Stay safe

SS

 

[grow nerd]

Sorry if I'm making myself sound like an ass, as I've not even passed the first paragraph of the first post, but:

...help me...commercial op...large budget...

...11k budget...

LOL