Help me Brainstorm for my first grow(in my closet)

[CarpeNoctem]

Hey guys going to order seeds from Nirvana in 2 weeks to start a grow. I'm really trying to keep this decent and cheap and slowly improve on it. My closet is 5ft tall(7ft if i cut out a shelf but I dont really want to) 2ft wide and 3 ft deep. Heres my thoughs so far.

1. Genetics- I have to decide what kind of seeds i want(what strain).
I would like somthing that gives more of a high(I'm looking for somthing thats good for wake-n-bake, doesnt get you hella stoned or stuck lol, and thats just cool you know that you can function on. I'm sure you guys know about what I'm talking about.

2. Pots-I already have quite a few pots of different sizes so thats out of the way.

3.Soil-I need to know what you guys think about soil remember I'm trying to keep this pretty keep jsut so I can get this going and get some experience under my belt before I start shelling out big bucks. Can I just get like some Maricle(sp?) Grow and some perlite and mix it form Home Depot and be cool or what do you think?

4. Reflectivity- I'm thinking about getting flat white paint for the walls, and some linoleum(cant afford panda poly ATM that will be later, and my own ersonal opinion is that white is better that mylar) or somthing white for the floor so I can get all the light out of my lights.

5. Lighting- I'm planning on getting the cheap 2-tube 4ft t12's from Home Depot. 1 fixture at first and then anotehr one in 2 weeks. And then in 2 to 4 weeks depending on when i have the money to get at least a 70 watt HPS but am going to try and shoot for a 250 watt, or maybe a 400(but with the 400 I'm concerned about heat. Should I be?)

6.I'm gonna need nutes and I'm thinking for this first grow jsut getting the smallest GH nutes cause there decent and the cheapest IMHO, though I'm sure not the best.

7. I'm going to need a carbon filter for smell. So If someone could help me out with a cheap solution to it that should compinsate for the smell in the space and for what the plants put off.

8. Exaust and intake- what do you think i need for now do i need anything yet? I can only vent to out side of the space to my room not to the outside.


My eventual goal is to have a good enough set up going to keep me with smoke all the time between grows and be able to smoke out my buddies once in a while and take some to parties once in a while.

To do that I'm thinking i should end up with a 400 watt HPS or a switching system MH/HPS. But do you think that i will be able to keep it cool enough summers can get really hot here and even with my house AC the closet is right up aginst an outside wall and the walls are pretty thin and not well insulated(its a older mobile home). I would like to be able to do my next grow hydro. Either with a dripper system, or an aeroponic setup in a rubbermade tub thing, with either 4 or 5 plants in it, using some good nutrients.
I would also like to scrog this whole time, even starting out with my first grow. I read that someone on OG was using metal clothes hanger bent into a square with that garden tie stuff thats like plastic with metal wire going through it(like the stuff you twist on bread to keep it closed). And using that to make screens. Sorry if this is confusing, I've jsut been kinda stuck and uncertain on what to do and need some experienced peoples advice on this so that i dont have to learn the hard way and will hopefully save a lot of time and money with this communitys advice.

Just looking for your
Please me out if you can
All help will be appreciated
And thanks in advance guys,
CarpeNoctem

 

[BombSquadron65]

Hey, CarpeNoctem! Nice avatar! (sorry, I'm a DnD nerd )

There are those here (especially since the downing of OG) who know more than I but I'm more than willing to share a little experience and a bit of the wealth of info I've learned from OG.

1: Genetics- I can't say which specific strain you should look for as I've only grown bagseed. However I can tell you what to look for. You're gonna want something that's a sativa cross breed. Pure indicas, while they tend to be shorter and bushier and give higher yields, are most commonly associated with "couch lock." Sativas are typically know to produce a more "active high" or slightly "hallucinogenic" high. Basically, Indicas put you on your ass and Sativas trip you out.

Just browsing through Nirvana's Standard Seeds it seems like NRS-K2 would be a good choice. Still, those who've actually grown some of NSS's breeds would be better qualified to give you a more specific answer.

3: If you're going for the cheap, then try Peter's brand soil. It's less acidic than MG and is very light and fluffy. Also, it's cheap! MG tends to be very acidic and loaded with slow, time release ferts. This may sound good but can reak havoc if you start giving nute-rich water before the time release ferts kick in. Another thing to watch for is pesticides. A lot of MG soils contain them, and you DO NOT WANT PESTICIDES! Look on the bag and check that it's safe to grow vegetables and fruits with. If you can't find Peter's then by all means try MG. Just make sure you buy Miracle Grow Soil For Flowers and Vegetables. Many on OG reported very good results with MG soils. Just make sure to check the PH.

Once you get soil under your belt, think about giving hydro a chance. You'll like the improvement. :wink:

4: Sounds good to me. I've known people, not on OG but personally, who've put up mylar only to have it backfire on them. They put it in haphazzardly and there were serious wrinkles which led to hot spots. Flat white paint is easy and works well.

5: I think a 400W might be overkill for something your size. Then again, it depends if you're trying to grow large lumbering plants or if you're trying to do a SOG. (I'd recommend SOG) I use a 150HPS and the 150 has worked well for me. If you're gonna get a HID just get that 250HPS and consider buying a conversion bulb. Not sure if they sell them for 250's though. Still, I had good vegetative growth using only a 150HPS, so you should be okay.

The only thing about a 70HPS is that it'll probably be too weak for your room. It will do well in a 1'x1' or a 1.5'x1.5' area but any larger and you're really pushing it. I'd recommend a minimum of a 150. With a 150 you should be fine but if you can afford the extra $$$ to spring on a 250, then go for it!

1 question though. Are you buying the ballast and lamp from a store or are you going to be buying a security light?

6: GH nutes are good. They're ph balanced, which is nice. Though they're typically meant for hydro. Personally, throughout my grows I've used Peter's Brand General nutes with a bit of dolomite lime. The Peters has all the essential micro nutes and the addition of epsom salts rounds out the low Mg and the lime adds in the calcuim. My plants loved it! It's all personal preference though. Some might say you'll be wasting you GH nutes other will say to use it. Personally, I'd say use some regualr nutes, since you'l be doing soil. Use the hydro nutes for hydro. But, if you really want to use the GH nutes, then by all means use them!

One word of caution though. Depending on how quickly you go into flower you might not need any of the veg nutes. However, once you switch to flower you will need to add a high P fert to round out and buff up the time released nutes in the soil. Otherwise your plants will be starving for P during flowering.

7: If OG were around I'd give you a FAQ link... but I can't. Right now I'm in the same boat. I need info regarding carbon filter size for a micro/stealth cab. Most carbon filters tend to be large and bulky, but then again most of the times those are the ones for 10'x10' rooms.
Hmmm... googling for links...
here we go.. http://www.hempcultivation.com/420/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60127

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache...IY&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=10&client=firefox-a
^ is a google cache of a thread.

http://www.hempcultivation.com/420/showthread.php?t=72703
^ REALLY COOL! Ultra tiny carbon scrubber! Seriously, this thing is TINY! Uses a cpu fan for the exhaust draw!

Can't seem to find too many more, but these should help. I'm not getting any real responses in my thread, though if I do, I'll send the info your way. Seems right now that I'm just going to have to try it and see. The old trial and error and then adjust scheme... Though that micro scrubber in the last link seems right up my alley.

8: Once you get that carbon scrubber you should be fine. Exhausting into your room shouldn't be a problem. As for intake, build a small intake line with a fan towards the bottom. Exhaust out the top. You should be okay.

WRAP UP: A 400W is gonna give you more yield but a 150 does pretty well. Most growers using 150s report 3-4.5 oz per harvest. Not too shabby! But if you're looking to be able to smoke out your buds and go to parties, keep your mouth shut about your grow. It's kind of hard to do when people are going, "dude! Where'd you get this shit!? It's tha bomb!" You wanna say, "Oh... that! I GREW that shit... " It also depends on how much you smoke. Considering that even if you have a good rotation going (SOG) you're still gonna have to wait 3 to 4 months for flowering to finish and the bud to cure properly. A 400 will give better yield and provide light for more plants (ie, you'll be able to pack more plants into your grow space). It really depends on how much you want to yield. Keep in mind that a 400W is gonna put out more heat and with more plants you'll have to use a bigger, more powerful carbon scrubber. With more yield comes more responsibility.

As for switchable, if you can afford it than do it. If you can't then consider getting a conversion bulb, if you can. I've used a 150HPS security light and it's served me fine, even throughout veg. However having a MH doesn't hurt and I have read numerous reports espousing the opinion that the MH works much better for Veg from numerous highly regarded growers. Using an HPS with some CFLs should be fine for Veg and many growers use that exact setup.

As for hydro, DWC is the shit. Seriously, it's well worth it. The set up is expensive (TDS/EC/PH meters are costly!) and needs a rigorous schedule of maintenance, but it's worth it in the end.

As for ScrOG, yeah, a coat hanger to make the outline works. A lot of people use twisty ties. Typically they get the roll of ties that you can cut to custom lengths. Those should be available at Lowes or Home Depot. You can also use chicken wire. Basically, anything with a grid pattern where the provided holes are roughly 1" to 2" in diameter, if I remember correctly. Using ScrOG will give you a good yield. One thing though, since you have the head room is that you should seriously consider doing SOG, as this will take advantage of the extra head-space you have available and I believe would maximize your yield potential more than ScrOGing would.

Anywho, peace and good grows!
P.S. if you have any more ?'s ask away!

 

[CarpeNoctem]

1: Genetics- I've though about k2, but i've also considered B52, Big Bud, Cali Orange(high chance of weak pheno's?), Four-Way, Haze(could be tall is that a problem to SCrog with?), Jock Horror, Master Kush(too stinky?)

3:Yeah I'll look into Peter's Soil and see if i can find it. Any suggestions on doing that? And yeah, I've looked into hydro quite a bit and I'm looking forward to it.

4: Yeah that's about what I got from Og too, I agree.

5: You say a 150 watt HPS is good for your area, how bis is it? Yeah a 250 watt with a conversion bulb sounds pretty good to me. I'll look into them and see if its a possiblity. Otherwise just a HPS should be cool especially for SCrog maybe it will make then stretch out fast to fill up screen then trim it to make buds big and level for medium sized colas? Sounds like a cool idea to me.

Thinking about buying online to save money cant beat that, right? Otherwise theres 3 hydro stores in town but to me seemed over priced, maybe I'm just cheap.

6: Once again will look into Peters and see if i have access to it. Thanks good to know that soil nutes are time released and nutes stick around for a while in soil.

7: Cool I'll check into those.

8: Yeah I'm hoping to find a easy cheap solution soon. OK in the bottom out the top right? Helps get hot air out the top too.

WRAP UP: I'm thinking a 250 is all i need in this space since you mention it. Yeah I've been bad and talked about starting a grow. Should I jsut deny it if anyone brings it up or say like i dont know what your talking about, and to my best friend be like no man it jsut didnt go through or what ever? I'm planning on getting a Cali cannabis card in a few months.And for sure hydro should be that shit. I'm hoping to try it after first harvest.

I'm thinking scrog would be a good idea becaase these guys are gonna get a couple of days in the window and then there only going to get floro's for at least a month and i want go get those light as close as possible to as much of the plants as i can and still have even coverage.

Thanks for the advice. Anyone else have any input?

 

[BombSquadron65]

2: Finding Peters sould be easy. I bought mine at Lowes. The General Feed is 20-20-20 w/ micro and macr nutes though it lacks calcuim. Just pick up some dolomite lime. Though dolomite lime is best used in the soil. The Peters Bloom Feed is 10-30-10, I think.

3: My areas have always been smaller than yours or about the same. I'm currently looking into a micro/stealth that'll be 30"Wx18"Dx40"H. Most of my grows have been in a 2sqft area with between 4 to 5 ft height. It's always worked well for me but if I could I'd take the jump to a 250. I might, but we'll just have to wait and see.

6: Hey, no problem. That's one thing that bit me in ass the 1st time I grew. I was watering with ferts and about a month into grow the soil Ph jumped to about 5.0 and 4.5! The worst was one that jumped to 3.5! Needless to say the 3.5 never recovered. The soil was too acidic and the Ph never got high enough so the plant died of nute lockout. Learned a lot from that one.

8: Yep. Hot air rises so you want the cool, fresh air coming in the bottom, preferably right below the canopy, and the hot air being exhausted out the top into/through the carbon scrubber.

WRAP UP: Best thing is to say something like, "yeah, I was thinking about it but, growings so damn expensive!" Which is kind of true... Once you get that med card though, tell your friends, shit. Once you've got that med-card then you should be fine, at least from a local stand point. And yeah, wait and do hydro after your first soil harvest. Get a little experience under your belt before going to the 'dro.

ScrOG is a sight to behold! A mini field of colas....

 

[Guest]

Hey BombSquadron65. Looks like a good plan - nice to see ya plannin and not just tossin stuff in and fixin problems later like some do. I had my original setup on both OG and CW, then settled in here long ago, but I think the original drawing is in my gallery, I'll post it with the hope that it gets ya thinkin and gives ya ideas.

As for strains, I wouldn't worry too much about it - that's pretty much the setup I started with, I've added a few more cabinets as it grew, but the original closet about your size produced our Nevilles for a few years, and Johnny Blaze, Sage, SWT#3 have all grown in that old closet. I saw someone feedback that 400 was overkill, I have to disagree here, it worked fine and could have gone to 600 to be perfect with the right ventilation. I vent up into our attic and temps stay glued to 70F with a RH of 40-55%.

Hope that helps a little, check out the Closet grower forum for more ideas, here's my original closet plan (with the shelf). See ya in chat!

 

[LEGI0N]

Mine isn't that bad ass but it works







24"x35" with a 400hps on a 4" inline.

 

[CarpeNoctem]

BombSqaudron65-

2: Cool if Peter's is at your Lowe's and online I should be able to get it at my Lowe's. And it says Peters Professional All Purpose Plant Food, Is that hat I'm going to be my soil? And then just mix that with some dolimite, Even for germinated seeds or when should I put that in? Also what is a good recipe for dolomite/soil mix? It comes in 10 lbs. bags. How much is that(answer in aproximate cubic feet or some other easy to realate to way)?

3: Yeah 250 watt For The Win.

6:Heres the link I got form Lowe's and searched for Peter's.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?acti...ry=Peters Professional&N=0+5000701+4294966971

13 bucks for 10 lbs sack isnt that expensive? or maybe not for a soils mix of that quality and for of what were looking for, I dunno you tell me. And are there nutes on the Lowe's site or are they not also availible there? Is it just the Orchid food or whats that deal?

8:Maybe just have the filter be the exaust? Hows that sound?

WRAPUP: Yeah sounds good it is expensive lol. But yeah I'm hoping to get "The Card" Cool part about being in Cali. And exeaclty my thoughts, I should do a soil grow first before jumping into hydro. Plus I'll have time to save money. Where you from by the way?


1tokeOverLine- Yeah I'm trying to prevent as many problems as possible from the beginning and not having to freak and stress out. I want to keep this as simple as possible, and as close to fun rather than work that I can. A 400 would be rad but I'm really paraniod about summer time heat around here. It can be 100 degrees Farenhiet for a weeks at a time very easily. Plus my house is a older moblie home with thin walls and has poor insulation. even with my house a/c on I'm not sure it will keep it cool enough maybe with proper ventilation. Heres the thing though my closet is about 11ft across with sliding doors over 8 feet of it to the left and 3 feet to the right behind wall. This 3 feet is the area i want to grow in. I can try and get pictures if what i said doesnt make since. Sorry I'm kinda stoned and not sure if I'm doing a good job explaining it. So yeah I'm thinking i can use panda poly and velcro to pretty much seal it up and have fans running through holes at top and bottom for ventalation.

LEGI0N- Looks very cool man, you Cali medical? Also makes me consider a 400 HPS maybe for my 3rd grow. I'll have to save for the money for the light and venting and have to work on making the closet space as air tight as i can for good venitation eventiually anyways. I'm still worried about heat in the summer though as mention in above response to 1tokeOverLine.

Thanks guys bear with me I've got a stony hig going on, lol.

 

[BombSquadron65]

3: They should have larger bags. I got my bags (4 feeder bags inside a larger resealable bag, don't remember the weight) for about $15 each.

6: Honestly, It's been a while since my last grow. So, I can't really tell ya if that's a good price or not. So, if it's cheaper then go with Miracle Grow. Lots of people have had success with MG soil and MG ferts. Others complain about acidity issues, which I honestly have never experienced since I don't use MG products. (because they're Monsanto) I do know that MG ferts have a high level of mercury, though not the worst (being Alaskan fish emulsion 5-0-0) by a long shot.

8: Yep, sounds good. That's how most have it. If you're gonna do it like in the 1st link then just make sure it's outside the cab. If ultra security isn't an issue then I'd recommend you use the scrubber design in the 1st link.

From Virginia, though I recently relocated. Left my old southern home for a change of pace, scenery, and attitude. Funny thing about Virginia, it's been legal for years for doctors to prescribe medical marijuana. It's illegal to grow and possess by state statutes so doctors could technically prescribe it, but the patients would have no way to get it. Those wacky legislators! The one good thing is that the current statutes are issued and designated in a manner which makes it easier to implement the possibility of issuing medical marijuana if it ever became Virginia law and the statutes were designated so just for that purpose. I'm sure the idea of that has good old George Washington stirring in his grave out in Mount Vernon, chomping his wooden dentures just waiting for the next great legal Virginia hemp harvest.

 

[CarpeNoctem]

Ok I checked out Lowes today, and mine doesnt have Peter's soil, all i saw by peters there was a bottle of some fertilizer in a bottle. So yeah I'm back to needing a soil again. Lookin for a cheap soil that wil be ok for my plants. Mostly if not all organic no pesticides, a right balance that is good for the plants, and wont burn them later on from time released ferts in the mix.

By the way what is a good mix for cannabis plants like (5-5-5) or what ever?

 

[killabrown420]

Hey man, I just wanted to suggest a reasonably cheap soil mix. I buy the STA-GREEN Nursery Blend for Trees and Shrubs...it comes in a white/green bag and is around 8 bucks a bag. The best part about this soil is it doesn't have any heavy nutes like the MG soil or others w/ chems. You don't want to get those as often they can be "hot" and kill your plants. It takes one bad bag of soil to ruin a whole crop, I've seen it happen. So far I've had about a half a dozen grows w/ this soil mix and I've never had any yellowing or deficiencies of any kind.
So you get the nursery blend soil, then scoop up a bag of perlite and a bag of vermiculite to airate the soil a bit, I thinky they are a few bucks a piece.

Now here's where you can decide how much you want to spend on your mix, as of now you can mix the three bags together and get a pretty good mix, I like to take it a step further and buy a bag of bat guano (order online if you have to, its safe...your just buying a single bag of fert, not 20- 1000 watt lights or anything) Or search your area for a hydro store and pay cash. If you do go with the guano, I like to use about 3/4 of the bag in the mix, and use the last bit to sprinke around the base of the plants after transplanting. Theres also a few different types of bat guano. For your first soil mix, the one you'll be starting your babies/clones in...buy the high N guano, for flower mixes, you could buy the high phosphorous kind. I've been using the high N kind for the entire grow, and haven't had any problems.
Now that you've got a good soil mix w/ nutes already in there, you'll want to feed w/ supplements once and a while. You could go to lowes and get the alaskan fish emulsion stuff, which is supposed to be mostly organic, or get the chemmy peter's plant food, which I have used before and isn't as bad as the MG can be. My suggestion is Fox Farm Big Bloom for flowering. In veg you can get by with the bat guano thats in the soil mix, with an occasional light feeding w/ the big bloom. Once in flowering you can feed them once a week alternating between nutes and water.



I've been following this method for a while, making slight adjustments when needed, but it's pretty basic, easy, and hard to screw up. Feel free to experiment too, don't stray too far from the basic recipe, but adding things like lime, bone + blood meal is possible, and could help, ya never know.

hope this helps

killa

 

[NiteTiger]

For cheap, you can't beat walmart - 40 lb bag of plain soil, no nutes - $1.66

Perlite - $2.88

Nutes, meh, cheap nutes everywhere

 

[CarpeNoctem]

Thanks Killabrown420, does that stay-green have and pesticides or anything bad in it? i guess not since your using it lol. The bat guano sounds good to me a well as big bloom had already planeed on getting those later.

Thanks NiteTiger, Thats a great idea. I'm realy really anti walmart though i havent given them any of my money in years and used to steal from them all through JR high lol. I'm really going to try and get al taht i can out of every dollar out of this grow though. UIts more of a learning experience then anything else. I'm going to be steadily upgrading every 2 weeks to each month, where i will upgrade something. But I'm going to have to get some poly and may a peice of wood to close off that side of my closet and i need to figure out how to get power there. I have it figured out but i mena i still need to get a timer the lights and extension cords and shit like that. I'm also going to get a CAli Cannabis card within a couple of months or so.


So yeah I'll go check out Wal-Mart and see what up over there for soil, and perlite. I'm not to keen on vermeculite so i think ill be fine with out it. Do you think ill be cool with a plain soil from wally in a mix with a 1/4 of perlite? that sounds good to me. And then for a ferilizer what should i do. Theres 3 hydro shops in town, plus tons of nurseries and i can order online if i have to thats not a problem. If i do go with the walmart option, will i need nutes within a month? I'm only going to have them under a 2- 4 foot t12 fixture. and in a couple of weeks ill buy another. So yeah how soon will i need to buy nutes and all that good stuff? And I still havent decided on a strain yet. But I'm pretty sure im gonna go with Nirvanas Ak-48. And scrog it under the floros till i can afford a 250 hps and have accounted for all the security and ventalation needs of the room. Thanks guys lemme know what you think.

 

[CarpeNoctem]

OK guys I ordered some Nirvana AK-48. Hopefully they'll be here in a week. I checked out Wal-Mart and they have peatmoss cheap as well as perlite, and peat pellets. Has anyone used peat pellets, or know a reson i shouldnt use them to germinate my seeds? The ones I'll be using if no one objects will be the jiffy peat pellets from walmart. So i was thinking germinate in the peat pellets and then, put them in small pots possibly jiffy pots, again if no one says anything aginst them. They say there not supposed to hinder root development and all that but do they break down fast enough so that it wont slow doen the roots, or what does anyone know about these? I was thinking about getting perlite and peatmoss and putting a inch or 2 of perlite at the bottom of the pots and a 3 part peatmoss with 1 part perlite mix for the soil do you thing I'll need to fertilize in a while, or should i get the Maricle Grow peatmoss and it says it already has ferilizers in it. does any of this sound good to you guys? any help is appreciated, answers to any question would be great.

Thanks
CN

 

[NiteTiger]

When growing in soil, I usually mix soil perlite 50/50 for simplicity. Never had a problem with the peat pellet starters at all. I'd avoid the preferted anything. As far as when to add nutes, let the plant tell you for your first grow, to maximize your learning experience.

 

[killabrown420]

The peat pellets will do, sometimes they can slow em down, but just for a week or so until they bust through that netting. Also keep the pellets moist, let them soak overnight and then shake the excess water out. Not too soggy, but not too dry, just like your soil mix should be. The peat moss will absorb an enormous amt of water, and it can be a pain if your soil mix has too much of it. You want an even consistency in your soil, lots of airation, and not too much peat moss as it will be a pain to water correctly.

If your really serious about growing in soil, try a decent quality soil mix. A good bag of soil and perlite is about as simple as it gets. Buy a big bag of soil, mix in the perlite. Try and buy the indoor planting mix, not the supercheap 2 dollar bags of top soil. That stuff can be too wet and have some nasty little critters in there. Always try and buy soil that is inside the stores, and not outside in the elements.

Once you get your soil mix and seedlings going, wait till the plants show they need nutes, probably week 2 or 3 of their lives. LITE NUTES at first, be careful, like 1/4 of the reccommended dosage.

 

[CarpeNoctem]

Cool thanks guys. Good to know the peat pellets are good to go. Theres some soil at walmart thats is in a brown bag plastic bag and it came in different sizes, it said in the pakage its weed and pest free or somthing like that. Man i wish i could remember the name,*just looked it up and its called Supersoil*

http://www.supersoil.com/products/supersoil/potting_soil.shtml

So yeah I think im going to use that with perlite for a while and see how they do. And for them telling me when they need nutes jsut watch the top leaves right? the bottom ones arent going to tell me much since there going to die in not to long anyways right?

 

[CarpeNoctem]

Also Anyone ever use Superthrive? I've heard some stuff about it but not to sure about it.

 

[CarpeNoctem]

anyone have any tips?

 

[CarpeNoctem]

/bump

 

[Guest]

Super thrive helps establish healthy roots...use it only in veg.