Help, I think it might be Mag def and Zinc def

[dr_green]

How long has this problem been going on? Couple weeks but it wasn't really bad I thought?
What STRAIN are you growing? Purple Kush
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) Seeds and Clones
What is the age of your plants? Veg 57 days
How Tall are the plants? 18 inches, and 8 inches to 3 inches
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? Veg.
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) trying SOG with my legal limit
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 5 gal, and 2 gal and smaller
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) Black Gold Organic Potting soil and a local organic potting soil ( never again)
What Nutrient's are you using? Grow Big and used Superthrive once for the transplant
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? half of recommeneded dosage
How often are you feeding? Just tried foilage feeding the mother and a clone tonight. I feed every other watering, usually if it's like every 4 to 5 days.
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? Still vegging, should I be giving tiger bloom instead of grow big?
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) N/A
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? don't have a PPM pen
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? 6.8 in the soil
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? Combo Meter (Moisture and Ph)
How often are you watering? But earlier it was every two days(root bound)

When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? I didn't feed them really much when I noticed the problem starting to get worse ( which is a couple of weeks ago) so superthrive was their only supplemental type of feeding.
What size bulb are you using? 400 watt
What is the distance to the canopy? ~15 inches
What is your RH Factor? I don't know it's in Hawaii
What is the canopy temperature? Not sure but it's pretty cool now days
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) 400cfm, I think
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? 2 fans circulating air inside with holes in back wall for ventalation; 1 exhaust blower on light hood;
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? nope
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? moist now. I let it dry out a little
Is your water HARD or SOFT? Well water with a ppm of 89
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? tap
Are you using water from a water softener? No
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? None
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?


I just transplanted the clones and the other plants into bigger pots. I'm facing a big problem with all of the girlies. They seem to look like they are mag def and maybe even zinc def. I don't know. I'm skeptikal to do the epsom salt thing, but my PH level is about 6.8, a little high. Could that be blocking the mag and zinc? Also could it be the chlorine in my tap water? Do you think I need a filter? Well here's the update pictures there are 5 small clones and one big mother. the back left is potentially a female. The two headed one on the right side is probably a male, but I'm still waiting for it to show it's true colors. Anyways, please help me. I really need this to turn out, because my medical stash is running out. Mag def? Zinc def? and definitely N def. Help!!!!!! Btw I gave them some superthrive when I transplanted them.

Pic 1 - the back plant shows the praying up to the light, signs of mag def?

Pic 2 - the new shoots are really small and lime green, signs of mag def and whatever else?

Pic 3 & 4 - She's kind of fucked up? Help?

Pic 5 - 5 clones and one probably a male and one IDK? All with the similar praying up to the light leaves, the mag def.

Pic 6 - Mother new shoots, lime green and small and skinny, and sides of leaf (the points) curled underneath the leaf. I don't know what the fuck is that from, but probably nute def.

Pic 7 - The greenest, most likely female mag def. plant.

Pic 8 - Clones showing the mag def too.

Pic 9 - Yellowing and discoloring of the bottom leaves of the mother plant. Even the shoots the bottom leaves are really pale.

Pic 10 - New shoots all curled up, how come?

Pic 11 - Top shot of the mother again, all curled up

Pic 12 - Pic of the clone, showing the discoloring of the dark green, looks like the mag def and/or zinc def?

please help and comment. Thanks

 

[nuggiespl]

How much superthrive did you give? There are two dosages, one says 1 drop per gallon, The other says 1 ml per gallon or 1/4 teaspoon. You want 1 drop per gallon, I learned this the hard way. Just got done flushing. Super thrive builds up fast. Not sure what's up with th rest though. Sorry, If it is mag which I'm not sure, epson salt (for plants) would work for def.

 

[dr_green]

help

help

How much superthrive did you give? There are two dosages, one says 1 drop per gallon, The other says 1 ml per gallon or 1/4 teaspoon. You want 1 drop per gallon, I learned this the hard way. Just got done flushing. Super thrive builds up fast. Not sure what's up with th rest though. Sorry, If it is mag which I'm not sure, epson salt (for plants) would work for def.

I put couple of drops. Maybe not a good idea. My last purple haze was fine with it. I don't know it seems that it's super sensitive to nutes and vitamins. Next watering should be a flushing? Or should I use some nutes? I'm pretty stumped. I don't wont my babies to die. I use Fox Farm Nutes ( grow big, tiger bloom, and big bloom). My ph level ranges from 7 to 6.7 in the mother plant, but all the rest of the plants seem like their at 6.9 ph level. I know that's kind of high, maybe I have a major salt build up from my tap water, they say when the water has a lot of chlorine salt can build up. I'm wondering if that's the cause, but would that cause the nutes from absorbing into the plants? I also read that if you have a lot of wood chips and shit like that in your soil, it can also take the Nitrogen from the nutes. So in that case maybe that's happening. I think I'm going back to fox farm ocean forrest potting soil on the next repotting. Well please help, they all need your help, we're stumped here.

 

[dr_green]

stitch where are u? help????!!!

 

[wygram]

ditch the superthrive, i use it only once after a transplant and only when i remember... your main problem is not nute dose related... for me it has to do with watering... your pots are of various sizes for a wide range of sizes of plants... learn to water them correctly and they will be happy... a small plant in a big pot will not like it when you water when the top soil is dry... the root system is not developed enough to handle drinking all that water and will be deprived of oxygen, which mj loves

 

[dr_green]

ditch the superthrive, i use it only once after a transplant and only when i remember... your main problem is not nute dose related... for me it has to do with watering... your pots are of various sizes for a wide range of sizes of plants... learn to water them correctly and they will be happy... a small plant in a big pot will not like it when you water when the top soil is dry... the root system is not developed enough to handle drinking all that water and will be deprived of oxygen, which mj loves

i only used the superthrive for transplanting. I don't use it on the regular. I know how to water my pots also. I just repotted, so they seem big for the plant but in no time it will be to big for the pot. my cmh bulb makes some huge root base. It's definitely not the watering.

 

[Gemini]

I think you have that new auto-LST strain. It bends and twists itself.

J/K

Gem

 

[tree&leaf]

Hi there Dr Green

Very nice looking plants you have there.

From what I can tell from what you've said and from looking at your pictures, you've just got a little Nitrogen deficiency, which would be consistent with the age of the plants and your feeding. If you've recently repotted them all into fresh soil, that should fix it, as long as you're watering them correctly. You don't need to do anything else, be patient, they'll fix themselves, but those leaves already damaged will simply fall off.

Don't be concerned over the use of SuperThrive, one or two drops per gallon at re-potting will simply help them settle into their new homes. Just don't use more than that or at a greater frequency - theres no need.

Other than that I see nice healthy plants, you're doing a good job, just be patient, a touch of N def isn't anything to worry about at all.

 

[dr_green]

I think you have that new auto-LST strain. It bends and twists itself.

J/K

Gem

Just replant at a angle and then they lst them self. I do that with most of my females, it helps me with the LST.

 

[dr_green]

Hi there Dr Green

Very nice looking plants you have there.

From what I can tell from what you've said and from looking at your pictures, you've just got a little Nitrogen deficiency, which would be consistent with the age of the plants and your feeding. If you've recently repotted them all into fresh soil, that should fix it, as long as you're watering them correctly. You don't need to do anything else, be patient, they'll fix themselves, but those leaves already damaged will simply fall off.

Don't be concerned over the use of SuperThrive, one or two drops per gallon at re-potting will simply help them settle into their new homes. Just don't use more than that or at a greater frequency - theres no need.

Other than that I see nice healthy plants, you're doing a good job, just be patient, a touch of N def isn't anything to worry about at all.

thanks for your comments. But I think I put more then two drops, I didn't mean a couple literally. sorry. I think I put maybe four drops or so. More then usual, I'm so out of my grow. I'm trying to get back my knowledge, but it's been a while from my last grow. Should I flush? I tried applying some FF Grow Big nutes on a clone, and it seem to make the deficiencies worse. I think salts or somethings building up because of the Superthrive. What do you think? Anybody else also?

 

[wygram]

don't flush they look healthy... flushing will oversaturate the root zone and deprive them of oxygen... four drops as opposed to one will not be killer... if you used it regularly then you could worry over toxic buildup from superthrive... water right... feed slightly, as the ff nutes seem strong... and they will love you for it with sweet candy buds

 

[dr_green]

don't flush they look healthy... flushing will oversaturate the root zone and deprive them of oxygen... four drops as opposed to one will not be killer... if you used it regularly then you could worry over toxic buildup from superthrive... water right... feed slightly, as the ff nutes seem strong... and they will love you for it with sweet candy buds

yeah but today they are alot more pale green. they are getting worse by the day. I'm really feeling I have a salt build-up. It could cause all of these symptoms, from what I researched. I'm thinking of trying to find some clearex or something of that nature. and the clone I gave light nutes to got alot more worse these past two days.

 

[wygram]

if it's the paleness that can be seen in the above pictures, it looks like they're hungry... salt buildup would begin damaging roots and result in complex symptoms, not the even yellowing which only happens on lower leaves... can you update pics?

as for the clone... did it have well established roots?... sometimes clones as they take off after rooting will drop lower leaves regardless

 

[dr_green]

if it's the paleness that can be seen in the above pictures, it looks like they're hungry... salt buildup would begin damaging roots and result in complex symptoms, not the even yellowing which only happens on lower leaves... can you update pics?

as for the clone... did it have well established roots?... sometimes clones as they take off after rooting will drop lower leaves regardless

yeah I took seperate pics of every plant and a close up of the mother where it shows the twisting and curling of the new shoots. look how light green its coming. I"m freaking right now, I'm so stumped. BUT WHAT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND OR DIDN'T READ, IS WHEN I FEED THEM NUTES THE PALENESS COMES OUT EVEN MORE. IT'S GETS WORSE. SORRRY FOR THE CAPS BUT THIS PART IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

as for the clones , yeah for the most part, the small ones they where on the iffy side. but regardless they should look how they are now.

I'm having real difficulties uploading the pics so bare with me.







Mother with new shoots twisting and curling under


small clone getting fucked up, with the heat and more def.s



This one I just flushed with plain water yesterday, and it's so pale.


I gave this one some nutes, but the new shoots are worse



flushed her with plain water only. still messed up.

 

[dr_green]

bump bump

 

[tree&leaf]

Should I flush? I tried applying some FF Grow Big nutes on a clone, and it seem to make the deficiencies worse. I think salts or somethings building up because of the Superthrive. What do you think? Anybody else also?

Dr Green

I understand your anxiety, but you must be patient, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with your plants over and above that they're light on N. Stop seeing ghosts where they don't exist! 4 drops of SuperThrive is not enough to cause a salt buildup.

When growing organically (and from your soil and nutrients, it appears you are) you must understand the differences between organic growing and growing using chemical/mineral based nutrients. When using the latter, the nutrients are already in plant 'useable' forms and therefore immediately available for plant uptake. When using organics, the speed in which the nutrients become 'plant useable' depends a lot on the health, quantity and efficiency of the soil micro-organisms, because it's these that turn them into plant useable forms.

This is why there's often a delay between feeding an organic nutrient and seeing improvements in the plant. It can sometimes take several days to a week for any improvements to show. This is one of the reasons growing organically is more difficult than growing using mineral nutrients, but (in my opinion at least) the results are far superior. If you've ever tasted a home organically grown tomato and compared the taste to a chemically grown commerical one, you'll understand what I mean.

If you want to speed things up, or see quicker results consider using some 'Fish Mix' or Fish Emulsion, (most good hydro or larger garden stores should stock it) which contains nutrient elements (particularly N) that are readily available for plant intake. You can use it as a root feed or as a foliar feed, and you will see a much quicker 'greening' up of the plant.

Otherwise, be patient and stop worrying.

 

[MynameStitch]

I agree with someof what tree has stated, but I do see some issues here.... but first I want to get a few things straight......


How much is half dosage are you just using the grow big every 4 to 5 days right?

Black gold is an organic mixture that is very strong, some strains have issues and I see some burn in a few of them. The newer growths twisting and curling is caused by 2 things mixture of light/heat and the burn, that plant is a little bit too dark green for my comfort, there is a difference between too much nitrogen and a normal dark green strain of cannabis and one way you can tell is by how they act, these plants are droopy and in between little happy and sad...... also your ppms in water is on the soft side, if I were you I would get a hold of some micronutes and use them every watering, because plants do need a certain amount of nutes and a lot of times they will get enough with just hard water, but softer water will cause lack of micros that must be supplimented.

Micronutes that is low can cause twisty newer growth too, but I don't see a micro nutrient issue I see a little bit too much nitrogen on some of the plants actually 1 or 2, but I think it's the same p[lant.....

What is your current temps when lights are on and off?

You using MH right?

First I would not use superthrive, I know you said you used it after transplant which is just fine as long as you did not over do it with the dosage.

Your mixture is soiless mixture it has a lot of peat, worm castings and so forth, your pH is also off not supposed to be that high 5.5 to 6.3 range.

I don't see a pH issue, but I do see too much nutes in them, some of them not all as for the little clone, how long has that plant been in that mixture? That goes for all of them?

What are you using to test your pH?

 

[dr_green]

I agree with someof what tree has stated, but I do see some issues here.... but first I want to get a few things straight......


How much is half dosage are you just using the grow big every 4 to 5 days right?

Black gold is an organic mixture that is very strong, some strains have issues and I see some burn in a few of them. The newer growths twisting and curling is caused by 2 things mixture of light/heat and the burn, that plant is a little bit too dark green for my comfort, there is a difference between too much nitrogen and a normal dark green strain of cannabis and one way you can tell is by how they act, these plants are droopy and in between little happy and sad...... also your ppms in water is on the soft side, if I were you I would get a hold of some micronutes and use them every watering, because plants do need a certain amount of nutes and a lot of times they will get enough with just hard water, but softer water will cause lack of micros that must be supplimented.

Micronutes that is low can cause twisty newer growth too, but I don't see a micro nutrient issue I see a little bit too much nitrogen on some of the plants actually 1 or 2, but I think it's the same p[lant.....

What is your current temps when lights are on and off?

You using MH right?

First I would not use superthrive, I know you said you used it after transplant which is just fine as long as you did not over do it with the dosage.

Your mixture is soiless mixture it has a lot of peat, worm castings and so forth, your pH is also off not supposed to be that high 5.5 to 6.3 range.

I don't see a pH issue, but I do see too much nutes in them, some of them not all as for the little clone, how long has that plant been in that mixture? That goes for all of them?

What are you using to test your pH?

Thanks for replying....

Today I went out and bought a ph tester from the pet store. I found out that my water was at about 7.6ph or above, since my tester is only for the range of 6.0 to 7.6ph levels. I think that was making my ph super high in the soil mixture. So for today, i just flushed out two of the better looking clones, and the two other plants( the one that looks like too much N and the other one small single headed one) with Flora Kleen. Then I gave them half dosage nutes(less then a 1/4 tsp of Grow Big). So After all of that, the plants soil turned out to be about 6.7 to 6.5 ph level.

As for how long the bigger mother and two other plants they been in their new soil for about two weeks now. I haven't fed the mother yet, because the water retention in her pot is crazy. This happened last grow too, but after a couple feedings she'll be fine. The soil in the larger doulbe headed plant is in a different local organic brand of potting soil (bad idea, i think). The clones have been in there soil for about a week only, and they have been going down and down ever since. Really looks, and is scaring me.


I'm using a 400W cmh bulb, so it's a hybrid hps i guess?

As for the dark green, it's actually supposedly naturally on the darker side, that's why i notice a problem. It was getting slowly lighter green and lighter green by the days. But yeah, at this moment I'm so confused on the problems. Could my high ph water could be the lock out of the nutes? when applied? or does it matter what ph in the soil so the nutes can be absorded? u know what I mean, does it matter to have the water to have a low ph in order for the nutes to work?
so possibly a ph problem?

I'm not to sure about my temp but I can try and get a some sort of temp gauge. but its' not super hot, I run my lights from 5:30 pm to 12:30 pm, and off there after. So when I run it helps with my temperatures. I think it doesn't get over 90 degrees. I think on a hot muggy night it may reach almost to the upper 80's.

As for a lack of micros do you think grow big covers the micros? or can I use big bloom also? Or should I just use big bloom itself?

this link should have the updated pics:

http://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/132621-help-help-help-mag-def.html


sorry my answers are out of order from your responses.

 

[dr_green]

Dr Green

I understand your anxiety, but you must be patient, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with your plants over and above that they're light on N. Stop seeing ghosts where they don't exist! 4 drops of SuperThrive is not enough to cause a salt buildup.

When growing organically (and from your soil and nutrients, it appears you are) you must understand the differences between organic growing and growing using chemical/mineral based nutrients. When using the latter, the nutrients are already in plant 'useable' forms and therefore immediately available for plant uptake. When using organics, the speed in which the nutrients become 'plant useable' depends a lot on the health, quantity and efficiency of the soil micro-organisms, because it's these that turn them into plant useable forms.

This is why there's often a delay between feeding an organic nutrient and seeing improvements in the plant. It can sometimes take several days to a week for any improvements to show. This is one of the reasons growing organically is more difficult than growing using mineral nutrients, but (in my opinion at least) the results are far superior. If you've ever tasted a home organically grown tomato and compared the taste to a chemically grown commerical one, you'll understand what I mean.

If you want to speed things up, or see quicker results consider using some 'Fish Mix' or Fish Emulsion, (most good hydro or larger garden stores should stock it) which contains nutrient elements (particularly N) that are readily available for plant intake. You can use it as a root feed or as a foliar feed, and you will see a much quicker 'greening' up of the plant.

Otherwise, be patient and stop worrying.

tree&leaf,

If it's N def, then whats causing all the twisting and curling of the new shoots (all the pointed parts of the leaves surrounding each blade curls under the main blade, making it a lot more skinny. I don't know of any N def, causing that problem, but everything else yes. I'm not seeing, ghost just jumping on a problem before it gets out of hand and irrepairable. I'm worrying because I care about my plants, this is my medicine I'm growing. I can't afford to loose my babies ( sorry i don't want to sound like an ass). I appreciate all your help, and I think I'm going to be gettin some fish mix, or fish emulsion. I thought I seen some fish nutes at walmart, is that okay to use for the foliar feeding? Or is there a specific brand you recomend. I'm not sure, still a student and a teacher at times. But mostly a student. I love comments like these, cause I know you know what your talking about because you have knowledge to back it up, and I appreciate it alot. Well let me know, only reason is because my good nursery store is a pretty far drive, and I have to get there by a certain time before they close.

also check out the post I did above, it says a lot of things that happened today.

 

[dr_green]

do you guys think I can take clones from my mother plant still yet even if she's showing some problems? Will the problems then go on to the clones? I'm hoping that it's okay?!