science is a process... a good process
Have You Been Vaccinated?
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Captain Red Eye
Well-known member
“It’s Science” is a propaganda slogan. It is used to denounce all naysayers.
Very popular on social media during the pandemic. “Like duh bro it’s science”
Fact
Very popular on social media during the pandemic. “Like duh bro it’s science”
Fact
It’s a funded process. Those funding it get the results they paid for. Business. And corrupt as fuck.
Scientific papers are required to outline funding and any potential conflict of interest. Just because something is funded doesn't make it necessarily biased. They are all open to scrutiny by peers.
Science has been wrong plenty of times, spectacularly in some instances, but that doesn't mean you throw out the baby with the bathwater. It's still the best process we have as far as understanding the world around us.
What would people replace it with; superstition, religion, opinion, "health influencers", snake oil salesmen and other grifters?
Science has been wrong plenty of times, spectacularly in some instances, but that doesn't mean you throw out the baby with the bathwater. It's still the best process we have as far as understanding the world around us.
What would people replace it with; superstition, religion, opinion, "health influencers", snake oil salesmen and other grifters?
Captain Red Eye
Well-known member
Conflict of interest? Like legal immunity for vax makers?
I agree with you, nothing wrong with actual science, everything wrong with the revolving door between regulatory agencies being "rewarded" with jobs after they've approved things for their future employer. The medical industrial complex and the military industrial complex pretty much work the same way in that regard.
Here's an interesting excerpt form an article published in Science Adviser in 2018 by Charles Piller.
(see bolded expanded below)
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) says its rules, along with federal laws, stop employees from improperly cashing in on their government service. But how adequate are those revolving door controls? Science has found that much like outside advisers, regular employees at the agency, headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland, often reap later rewards—jobs or consulting work—from the makers of the drugs they previously regulated.
FDA staffers play a pivotal role in drug approvals, presenting evidence to the agency's advisory panels and influencing or making approval decisions. They are free to move to jobs in pharma, and many do; in a 2016 study in The BMJ, researchers examined the job histories of 55 FDA staff who had conducted drug reviews over a 9-year period in the hematologyoncology field. They found that 15 of the 26 employees who left the agency later worked or consulted for the biopharmaceutical industry.
FDA's safeguards are supposed to keep the prospect of industry employment from affecting employees' decisions while at the agency, and to discourage them from exploiting relationships with former colleagues after they depart. For example, former high-level employees can't appear before the agency on the precise issues they regulated—sometimes permanently, in other cases for a year or two.
I agree with you, nothing wrong with actual science, everything wrong with the revolving door between regulatory agencies being "rewarded" with jobs after they've approved things for their future employer. The medical industrial complex and the military industrial complex pretty much work the same way in that regard.
Here's an interesting excerpt form an article published in Science Adviser in 2018 by Charles Piller.
(see bolded expanded below)
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) says its rules, along with federal laws, stop employees from improperly cashing in on their government service. But how adequate are those revolving door controls? Science has found that much like outside advisers, regular employees at the agency, headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland, often reap later rewards—jobs or consulting work—from the makers of the drugs they previously regulated.
FDA staffers play a pivotal role in drug approvals, presenting evidence to the agency's advisory panels and influencing or making approval decisions. They are free to move to jobs in pharma, and many do; in a 2016 study in The BMJ, researchers examined the job histories of 55 FDA staff who had conducted drug reviews over a 9-year period in the hematologyoncology field. They found that 15 of the 26 employees who left the agency later worked or consulted for the biopharmaceutical industry.
FDA's safeguards are supposed to keep the prospect of industry employment from affecting employees' decisions while at the agency, and to discourage them from exploiting relationships with former colleagues after they depart. For example, former high-level employees can't appear before the agency on the precise issues they regulated—sometimes permanently, in other cases for a year or two.
I'm not sure what qualifies you to work for the FDA, but I'd bet the same qualifications allow you to work in government, education (universities), and pharmaceutical companies? Not sure where else you'd go with these qualifications and experience.
shiva82
Well-known member
just admit you made a mistake , and were coerced and fooled into believing you needed to takes those damn shots . you would not come across as troll like , and would appear sincere and your points would hold more value.
if the covid shots work, then when is your next booster?what is the current covid variant ? fauci science says to double mask , and have at least 2-3 covid boosters a year . remember to trust faucis ' science' and ignore any opposing views.
shiva82
Well-known member
the same qualifications as you , only not as closed minded and biased.
And there are slogans and misinformation used by the other side to discredit science.
"Do your own research" is my favourite, especially when it comes with links.
"My body, my choice", well yes, it always was. No one held you down and jabbed a needle in.
Those that refused to wear a mask coz "mah freedom" or some such shit. Meanwhile infecting those around them. Hero's!!
Then another favourite was the one about a Bill Gates microchip. Or it alters your DNA.
During lockdowns I was told that our freedoms were never coming back. Turbo cancer was another hilarious one. The "Died Suddenly" movie made a splash for a bit, until there was no evidence.
Then there were the people on these threads telling me I'd be dead within 2 years of the vaccine.
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Captain Red Eye
Well-known member
So you don't think there's ever any tit for tat or rewards then?
You don't think regulatory agencies ever punish the people they don't like and reward the people that reward them or give them bags of cash? That never happens?
I can't guarantee it doesn't happen, ever.
I just don't think that people moving employment is a smoking gun. Just to be clear though, I am not from the USA, so I know little about the FDA. I do trust my own governments Health Department. It's not just the FDA that approved these vaccines; agencies all over the world did as well. I'm sure some individuals are corrupt, but is what you are suggesting world wide corruption in virtually every FDA/Health department equivalent the world over? That seems more than far fetched.
Captain Red Eye
Well-known member
Far fetched? How about this?
What is the purpose of a government giving Pfizer, a company that lost billions in a kickback lawsuit in 2009 legal immunity for their vax?
Any thoughts on that?
I've never given it any thought. If you are injured by a vaccine here there is robust compensation.
A quick search I did came up with this. Seems it's hardly a new thing? Make of it what you will.
The Facts
According to 42 U.S. Code § 300aa–22, "No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings."In other words, companies that manufacture vaccines are not liable if someone has an allergic reaction or injury after being vaccinated.
However, individuals can file a petition with the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) administered by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to receive compensation if they are found to have been injured by one of the vaccines covered by VICP. According to the Health Resources and Services Administration under HHS, "even in cases in which such a finding is not made, petitioners may receive compensation through a settlement."
VICP, also known as "vaccine court" has been accepting petitions, also known as claims, since 1988, and has paid about $4.4 billion in overall compensation, according to CNBC.
Though VICP covers vaccines for diseases including human papillomavirus (HPV), measles, mumps, polio and seasonal influenza, it does not cover any COVID-19 vaccines.
In 2005, the Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (PREP) was created to protect from liability pharmaceutical companies that make or distribute vaccines unless there is "willful misconduct" by the company.
HHS Secretary Alex Azar invoked PREP in February in response to the pandemic, declaring COVID-19 to be "a public health emergency warranting liability protections for covered countermeasures."
This means that companies like Moderna and Pfizer are protected from lawsuits regarding their COVID-19 vaccines until 2024.
According to CNBC, "You also can't sue the Food and Drug Administration for authorizing a vaccine for emergency use, nor can you hold your employer accountable if they mandate inoculation as a condition of employment."
However, the PREP Act also created the Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program (CICP), which provides benefits to people who claim that they suffered injuries from vaccines under emergency authorization.
There are a few key differences between VICP and CICP.
The Associated Press reported that VICP has paid much more in compensation than CICP has. Only 29 out of 499 people who made claims under CICP received compensation.
Since the late 1980s, VICP has provided $4.4 billion in total compensation, with an average of $570,000 per claim. Since 2005, CICP has provided petitioners, who mostly made claims about the H1N1 swine flu vaccine, $6 million in compensation, with an average of $200,000 per claim. According to the Associated Press, "payments in most death cases are capped at $370,376" for CICP.
VICP allows individuals to make claims within three years of their first symptom. CICP, on the other hand, allows petitioners only one year from the date of vaccination.
CICP doesn't pay fees for lawyers or expert witnesses or provide awards for suffering or damages; VICP does. VICP also permits appeals all the way to the Supreme Court.
In other words, people who make claims about injuries or allergic reactions to either of the COVID-19 vaccines have less time to make their petitions than people who have filed claims for injuries from vaccines related to the measles or the flu. They also are less likely to receive compensation for injuries from COVID-19 vaccines, and if they do receive compensation, it likely will be a smaller amount.
The Ruling
True.Pharmaceutical companies are protected from liability regarding the COVID-19 vaccines. If someone has an allergic reaction or injury from one of the vaccines, they can petition to receive compensation from the Department of Health and Human Services' (HHS) Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program (CICP).
The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP), which also falls under the jurisdiction of HHS, has a better record of providing compensation to people who claim injury from a vaccine than CICP but covers vaccines for diseases such as polio and seasonal influenza, not COVID-19.
Fact Check: Are Moderna and Pfizer Immune From COVID-19 Vaccine Lawsuits?
Millions of Americans have already received at least one dose of the COVID-19 vaccines, but many people wonder if pharmaceutical companies will be liable in the event of a vaccine-related injury.
www.newsweek.com
Captain Red Eye
Well-known member
These statements minimize what went down.
There were lockdowns and arrests. Freedoms were forcibly removed...for some. Lots of power drunk politicians looked into mandating the jab. (I would have refused that and died defending myself.) Many politicians were "caught" not wearing masks. "Rules for thee, but not for me".
Some businesses were forcibly closed and some were kept open. Businesses owned by "billionaires" stayed open, while small businesses were forcibly shutdown. Many politicians wanted to institute "vax travel papers"...travel papers...like the Nazis did.
Masks and the vax didn't prevent transmission either. That's not an accurate statement.
I'm glad you haven't died and hope you don't have complications. Many people did die from the vax and many others have had vax related complications. You do acknowledge that I hope?
"Here, we use a dynamic county-scale metapopulation model to estimate the number of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths averted due to vaccination during the first six months of vaccine availability. We estimate that COVID-19 vaccination was associated with over 8 million fewer confirmed cases, over 120 thousand fewer deaths, and 700 thousand fewer hospitalizations during the first six months of the campaign."
"This study examined the association of COVID-19 deaths per 1000 cases with a fully vaccinated population. The global median deaths per 1000 cases were 15.68 (IQR 9.84, 25.87) after 6 months of vaccinations and 11.96 (IQR 6.08, 20.63) after 12 months. Across 164 countries, we found significant variations in vaccination levels of populations, booster doses, and mortality, with higher vaccine coverage and lower mortality in high-income countries. Several regression models were performed to test the association between vaccination and COVID-19 mortality. Control variables were used to account for confounding variables. A 10-percentage-point increase in vaccination was associated with an 18.1% decrease in mortality after 6 months (95%CI, 7.4–28.8%) and a 16.8% decrease after 12 months (95%CI, 6.9–26.7%). A 10-percentage-point increase in booster vaccination rates was associated with a 33.1% decrease in COVID-19 mortality (95%CI, 16.0–50.2%). "
"By May 1, 2021, 82%, 63%, and 42% of adults aged ≥65, 50–64, and 18–49 years, respectively, had received ≥1 vaccine dose. From November 29–December 12, 2020 to April 18–May 1, 2021, the rate ratios of COVID-19 incidence, emergency department visits, hospital admissions, and deaths among adults aged ≥65 years (≥70 years for hospitalizations) to adults aged 18–49 years declined 40%, 59%, 65%, and 66%, respectively."
The impact of COVID-19 vaccination in the US: Averted burden of SARS-COV-2-related cases, hospitalizations and deaths - PubMed
By August 1, 2022, the SARS-CoV-2 virus had caused over 90 million cases of COVID-19 and one million deaths in the United States. Since December 2020, SARS-CoV-2 vaccines have been a key component of US pandemic response; however, the impacts of vaccination are not easily quantified. Here, we...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
"This study examined the association of COVID-19 deaths per 1000 cases with a fully vaccinated population. The global median deaths per 1000 cases were 15.68 (IQR 9.84, 25.87) after 6 months of vaccinations and 11.96 (IQR 6.08, 20.63) after 12 months. Across 164 countries, we found significant variations in vaccination levels of populations, booster doses, and mortality, with higher vaccine coverage and lower mortality in high-income countries. Several regression models were performed to test the association between vaccination and COVID-19 mortality. Control variables were used to account for confounding variables. A 10-percentage-point increase in vaccination was associated with an 18.1% decrease in mortality after 6 months (95%CI, 7.4–28.8%) and a 16.8% decrease after 12 months (95%CI, 6.9–26.7%). A 10-percentage-point increase in booster vaccination rates was associated with a 33.1% decrease in COVID-19 mortality (95%CI, 16.0–50.2%). "
"By May 1, 2021, 82%, 63%, and 42% of adults aged ≥65, 50–64, and 18–49 years, respectively, had received ≥1 vaccine dose. From November 29–December 12, 2020 to April 18–May 1, 2021, the rate ratios of COVID-19 incidence, emergency department visits, hospital admissions, and deaths among adults aged ≥65 years (≥70 years for hospitalizations) to adults aged 18–49 years declined 40%, 59%, 65%, and 66%, respectively."
Decreases in COVID-19 Cases, Emergency Department Visits, ...
By May 2021, 69%, 45%, and 26% of adults aged ≥65, 50–64, ...
www.cdc.gov
why must you do the dishonest thing?
why would i admit to making a mistake if i know i didn't make a mistake?
make your case, present some good evidence that i've made a mistake.
i'm a troll cause i have a different pov?
how silly...
not the scientific process itself, and much of our understanding is pushed forward and much of our tech is advanced because the governmenr funded it, with no expectation of returns.
with this admin trying to ruin government funded research and push everything private, we will see slower innovation... why would they help humanity if they can't exploit it for hella rubles?
In reality there were no sides. Sides are the illusion that the propaganda helped create.
I don’t care what you believe. Why should you care what I believe?
I’m still here. You are still here. Some people are not. Did you save them? Did I kill them?
