Have You Been Vaccinated?

[Cuddles]

We get these test kits - given out by the NHS to test for covid - if you get one bar on the test-kit you are not infected - if you get two bars you are said to have covid - and my son was getting 2 bars the first day he took sick - and the second and third day too - he will take another test today - as we all will - and so far no one else has got 2 bars except for the boy -

He's not been so ill - the first day was the fever/sweats and headache and dry eyes - but yesterday and today he seems perfectly normal without any signs of being sick - he's not supposed to go out till after 10 days and he shows one bar on the test kit -

We did send off a saliva/swab sample to the NHS laboratory - to find out which variant it is - but have not had a reply just yet -

Hi Gypsy, very sorry to hear your son is ill, I hope he recovers very quickly
I must have missed this particular thread/post. Do you have any idea how he got infected yet?
And I didn´t see you on the news - which news were you mentioned on?

Over here we mostly have to pay for tests, although there are places that were doing it for free. There´s one near my flat but you need a bloody apointment even though they are hardly ever busy. Soon they are gonna charge everybody for it, especially unvaccinated people (like me).
Not my fault they don´t supply doctors with the vax as intelligent people would...

I just saw on BBc news that the Italian government is gonna charge 15 EUR /adult and 8 EUR for kids from now on. They´re coming down really hard on those who haven´t had their vax yet.
How much do have to pay for a test in England?

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Hi Gypsy, very sorry to hear your son is ill, I hope he recovers very quickly
I must have missed this particular thread/post. Do you have any idea how he got infected yet?
And I didn´t see you on the news - which news were you mentioned on?

Over here we mostly have to pay for tests, although there are places that were doing it for free. There´s one near my flat but you need a bloody apointment even though they are hardly ever busy. Soon they are gonna charge everybody for it, especially unvaccinated people (like me).
Not my fault they don´t supply doctors with the vax as intelligent people would...

I just saw on BBc news that the Italian government is gonna charge 15 EUR /adult and 8 EUR for kids from now on. They´re coming down really hard on those who haven´t had their vax yet.
How much do have to pay for a test in England?

Looks to me like my son has recovered already - he shows no signs of being sick at all now - if he was sick he couldn't do all the press-ups and sit-ups he's willingly doing to stay fit at home - 'on the news?' - naa - I ain't no David Beckham - lol

- He must have got infected from school - 11 year old boys playing Rugby probably helps transmit the virus - especially when you end up at the bottom of a scrum -
- We have not been charged for any of the virus test kits or anything associated with health - since we have socialized medicine here in the UK - its supposed to be free for all -

 

[Cuddles]

Looks to me like my son has recovered already - he shows no signs of being sick at all now - if he was sick he couldn't do all the press-ups and sit-ups he's willingly doing to stay fit at home - 'on the news?' - naa - I ain't no David Beckham - lol

- He must have got infected from school - 11 year old boys playing Rugby probably helps transmit the virus - especially when you end up at the bottom of a scrum -
- We have not been charged for any of the virus test kits or anything associated with health - since we have socialized medicine here in the UK - its supposed to be free for all -

Yeah, I now Over here we have health insurance - which people PAY for but we still have to fork out for a lot of stuff ourselves.
Mind you the government has been picking up the tab for corona stuff and I guess they want to lower the cost as much as possible. I do think that the insurances ought to pull their weight a bit now...

Whenever I hear `Rugby´ I think of Twickenham rugby ground because I used to go to the TESCO store next door to it I wonder if they´re still there?

 

[Gry]

As India’s Lethal Covid Wave Neared, Politics Overrode Science

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/14/w...=pocket-newtab

The country’s top science agency tailored its findings to fit Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s optimistic narrative despite a looming crisis, researchers say.

Sept. 14, 2021

हिंदी में पढ़िये

NEW DELHI — The forecast was mathematically based, government-approved and deeply, tragically wrong.
In September 2020, eight months before a deadly Covid-19 second wave struck India, government-appointed scientists downplayed the possibility of a new outbreak. Previous infections and early lockdown efforts had tamed the spread, the scientists wrote in a study that was widely covered by the Indian news media after it was released last year.
The results dovetailed neatly with Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s two main goals: restart India’s stricken economy and kick off campaigning for his party in state elections that coming spring. But Anup Agarwal, a physician then working for India’s top science agency, which reviewed and published the study, worried that its conclusions would lull the country into a false sense of security.
Dr. Agarwal took his concerns to the agency’s top official in October. The response: He and another concerned scientist were reprimanded, he said.

In the wake of the devastating second wave, which killed hundreds of thousands of people, many in India are asking how Mr. Modi’s government missed the warning signs. Part of the answer, according to current and former government researchers and documents reviewed by The New York Times, is that senior officials forced scientists at elite institutions to downplay the threat to prioritize Mr. Modi’s political goals.
“Science is being used as a political weapon to forward the government narrative rather than help people,” said Dr. Agarwal, 32.


Senior officials at Dr. Agarwal’s agency — called the Indian Council of Medical Research, or I.C.M.R. — suppressed data showing the risks, according to the researchers and documents. They pressured scientists to withdraw another study that called the government’s efforts into question, the researchers said, and distanced the agency from a third study that foresaw a second wave.
Agency scientists interviewed by The Times described a culture of silence. Midlevel researchers worried that they would be passed over for promotions and other opportunities if they questioned superiors, they said.


“Science thrives in an environment where you can openly question evidence and discuss it dispassionately and objectively,” said Shahid Jameel, one of India’s top virologists and a former government adviser, who has been critical of the agency.
“That, sadly, at so many levels, has been missing,” he said.
The science agency declined to answer detailed questions. In a statement, it said it was a “premier research organization” that had helped to expand India’s testing capacity. India’s health ministry, which oversees the agency, did not respond to requests for comment.
India is hardly the first country where virus science has become politicized. The United States remains far short of taming the disease as politicians and anti-vaccine activists, fueled by disinformation and credulous media, challenge the scientific consensus on vaccines and wearing masks. The Chinese government has tried to obscure the outbreak’s origin, while vaccine skeptics have won audiences from Russia to Spain to Tanzania.

India, a vast country with an underfunded health care system, would have struggled to contain the second wave no matter what. A more contagious new variant fueled the spread. People had stopped wearing masks and socially distancing.
“Prime Minister Modi has never, ever said to lower the guard,” said Vijay Chauthaiwale, a member of Mr. Modi’s governing Bharatiya Janata Party.
Still, the government contributed to complacency. Mr. Modi boasted in January, just months before the devastating second wave hit, that India had “saved humanity from a big disaster.” Harsh Vardhan, then the health minister, said in March that the country was “in the endgame of Covid-19.” (Amid criticism over the government’s response, Dr. Vardhan stepped down in July.)


The I.C.M.R., which conducts and reviews research for the government, played a major role in shaping perceptions. India has not released granular data on the virus’s spread, hampering the ability of scientists to study it. In that vacuum, the agency offered projections that often steered debate.
Politics began to influence the agency’s approach early last year, according to scientists familiar with its deliberations.
In April 2020, in the midst of a nationwide lockdown ordered by Mr. Modi, the government blamed an early outbreak on an Islamic gathering, spurring attacks against Muslims by some Hindu nationalists, who provide the core of the prime minister’s support.
Amid that anger, some officials within the science agency said the gathering had undermined containment efforts. The gathering “has undone the benefits of lockdown,” said one news outlet, citing an agency source. Raman Gangakhedkar, then its chief scientist, in an interview singled out the gathering as an “unexpected surprise.”
In an interview with The Times, Dr. Gangakhedkar said that he had expressed “anguish” over the government’s statements targeting Muslims but said the science agency’s director general, Balram Bhargava, told him that the matter should not concern him. Dr. Bhargava did not respond to requests for comment.
The lockdown did severe economic damage. Once it ebbed, Mr. Modi moved to rekindle the economy and start election campaigning — and government scientists, researchers within the agency said, helped pave the way.
In June 2020, a study commissioned by the agency concluded that Mr. Modi’s lockdown had slowed but would not stop the virus’s spread. Within days, the authors withdrew it. The agency, saying the study’s modeling had not been peer-reviewed, wrote in a tweet that it “does not reflect the official position of I.C.M.R.”

One of the study’s authors, along with a scientist familiar with it, said the authors had withdrawn it amid pressure from the agency’s leaders, who questioned its findings and complained that it had been published before they had reviewed it. The move was unusual, the scientists said, adding that the agency’s leadership would typically adjust problematic language rather than demand a paper be withdrawn.
In July 2020, Dr. Bhargava issued two directives to agency scientists that his internal critics saw as politically motivated.

The first called on scientists at a number of institutions to help approve, in just six weeks, a coronavirus vaccine developed by Indian scientists. In a memo dated July 2 and reviewed by The Times, Dr. Bhargava said the agency aimed to approve the vaccine by Aug. 15, India’s Independence Day, an event at which Mr. Modi frequently urges the country toward greater self-reliance. “Kindly note that noncompliance will be viewed very seriously,” the directive read.

The request alarmed agency scientists. Regulators in other countries were still months away from approving their own vaccines. The agency’s top leaders backed off once the timetable became public. (The vaccine was approved by the Indian authorities months later, in January.)

Dr. Bhargava’s second directive, issued in late July 2020, forced scientists to withhold data that suggested the virus was still spreading in 10 cities, according to emails and scientists familiar with the work.

The data came from the agency’s serological studies, which tracked the disease based on antibodies in blood samples. The data showed high infection rates in some neighborhoods, including in Delhi and Mumbai, despite containment efforts. In a July 25 email reviewed by The Times, Dr. Bhargava told the scientists that “I have not got approval” to publish the data.

“You are sitting in an ivory tower and not understanding the sensitivity,” Dr. Bhargava wrote. “I am sincerely disappointed.”

Naman Shah, a physician who worked on the studies, said withholding the data worked against science and democracy.

“This is a government which clearly has a philosophy and history of trying to assert power by capturing every institution and making it an arena for political struggle,” he said.

The data that I.C.M.R. did release helped officials argue incorrectly, to the country and the world, that the coronavirus wasn’t spreading in India as virulently as in the United States, Brazil, Britain and France.

Then, last autumn, an agency-approved study wrongly suggested that the worst was over.

Known as the Supermodel in India, the study projected that the pandemic would ebb in India by mid-February. It cited Mr. Modi’s lockdown earlier in 2020. It said that the country may have reached herd immunity because more than 350 million people had already been infected or developed antibodies. The science agency fast-tracked the study’s approval, said Dr. Agarwal and other people familiar with its progress.

Scientists inside and outside the agency picked the study apart. Other countries were nowhere close to herd immunity. Plenty of people in India still hadn’t been infected. None of the study’s authors were epidemiologists. Its model appeared to have been designed to fit the conclusion, some scientists said.


“They had parameters which can’t be measured and whenever the curve was not matching, they changed that parameter,” said Somdatta Sinha, a retired scientist who studies infectious disease models and who wrote a rebuttal. “I mean, we don’t do modeling like that. This is misguiding people.”
Dr. Agarwal, the agency physician, said he took his concerns in October to Dr. Bhargava, who told him it was “none of his business.” Dr. Bhargava, he said, then summoned another scientist who had raised concerns about the study with Dr. Agarwal and reprimanded them both.
M. Vidyasagar, chairman of the committee that produced the Supermodel, declined to comment. Indian science officials said in May, as the second wave tore through the country, that the panel’s mathematical model “can only predict future with some certainty so long as virus dynamics and its transmissibility don’t change substantially over time.”
One study, published in January 2021, did predict a second wave. Published in the journal Nature, it said that such an outbreak could strike if restrictions were “lifted without any other mitigations in place” and called for more testing. One of its authors worked for the I.C.M.R., but its leadership pressured him to remove his affiliation with the agency from the paper, said people familiar with the matter.

The second wave struck in April. With hospitals overwhelmed, Indian health officials recommended treatments that the government’s own scientists had found to be ineffective.

One was blood plasma. Dr. Agarwal and his colleagues had concluded months before that blood plasma did not help Covid-19 patients, a finding that echoed others. The agency dropped the recommendation in May.
The government still recommends a second treatment, the Indian-made malaria drug hydroxychloroquine, despite overwhelming scientific evidence that it is ineffective. Desperate families scrambled to find both during the second wave, creating black markets where prices soared.
Current and former agency scientists said they didn’t speak out because they considered the treatments politically protected. Mr. Modi’s party had organized plasma donation camps last year to mark his 70th birthday. The Indian government also used hydroxychloroquine as a diplomatic tool, winning points with Donald J. Trump, then the American president, and Jair M. Bolsonaro, the Brazilian leader, who both pressured New Delhi last year to lift its export limits on the drug.
“If you want to work somewhere for the rest of your life, you want a good relationship with people,” Dr. Agarwal said. “You just be nonconfrontational about everything.”
Dr. Agarwal resigned in October and later worked in Gallup, N.M. Now a physician in Baltimore, he said his experience with the agency had driven him to leave India.
“You start questioning your work, you know,” he said. “And then, you get disillusioned by it.”

 

[TNTBudSticker]

FDA panel votes against Pfizer's booster shot


A U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) advisory panel voted Friday against approval of Pfizer (PFE)/BioNTech's (BNTX) third dose for the U.S.

The vote comes after a heated debate in recent weeks over the need for booster or additional shots, which both mRNA companies — Pfizer and Moderna (MRNA) — have advocated for.

 

[Gry]

FDA panel votes for Pfizer's booster shot for ages 65+


A U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) advisory panel voted unanimously Friday to recommend Pfizer (PFE)/BioNTech's (BNTX) third dose for Americans 65 and older, and for those with high risk of contracting a severe case of COVID-19.

The vote authorizing a booster for 65 and older was the panel's second decision of the afternoon, following a ruling against booster doses for Americans 16 and over. The second vote also approved emergency use authorization rather than a supplemental approval of the already fully-licensed vaccine.
A CDC advisory panel meeting, slated for next week, will delve further into who will qualify for the additional dose.

Dr. Lena Wen, visiting professor at George Washington University Milken Institute School of Public Health, told Yahoo Finance the vote achieved a balance.

The vote comes after a heated debate in recent weeks over the need for booster or additional shots, which both mRNA companies — Pfizer and Moderna (MRNA) — have advocated for.

"This is a reasonable 'middle ground' solution and gives discretion to physicians and patients to decide who is high risk. That level of individual decision-making is key," Wen said.

"Of course, it's true that the unvaccinated are the major problem when it comes to spread of covid, but it shouldn't mean that those vaccinated don't deserve to be better protected with an extra dose if they so choose," Wen added.

Dr. Peter Marks, the FDA's leading expert on vaccines, touched on the recent controversy in his introductory remarks.

"We know that there may be differing opinions of the interpretation of the data regarding the potential need for additional doses, and we strongly encourage all the different viewpoints to be voiced and discussed regarding the data, which is complex, and evolving," Marks said.

He added the meeting focused on almost real-time analyses compared to what is happening in the world, and the goal remains slowing the spread of COVID-19, which is killing almost 2,000 Americans daily.

The question the advisory panel was originally given to consider only used the U.S. data, a small dataset, despite the presentations including data from the U.K. and Israel.

Marks instructed the panel to consider all the data, noting, "This is not a legal proceeding, this is a science proceeding, so you can take all the data into account."

The meeting precedes a September 20 start date for additional doses, announced last month by the White House COVID-19 Response Team, despite U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) data showing some Americans are already receiving third doses. Last month, the CDC recommended additional doses for immunocompromised people.

A CDC advisory panel will meet next week to discuss recommendations for who should receive a booster dose.

At a Response Team briefing Friday, U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy said the administration is already communicating with pharmacies, nursing homes and state officials to help roll out additional doses.

But whether or not the average American also needed boosters had been a growing debate for weeks.

Measuring antibody levels after a vaccine, which tend to wane, versus relying on memory cells, which can recall how to fight the virus, as is typical in vaccinations, was at the heart of the debate in the science community.

A Pfizer official acknowledged that "its a much more complex story" than just antibody titers — even as the company relied on that data to advocate for additional doses.

Meanwhile, some who opposed third doses believed those doses could be better used in countries with low vaccination rates.

Marks also addressed that at the start of the meeting Friday, noting that the committee is only supposed to weigh on the data and need for shots, and not on global vaccine equity or operational concerns in rolling out a booster campaign in the U.S.

The decision Friday heavily leaned on data from Israel, as well as the U.K., which has been a point of concern.
Lacking data


In days prior, both mRNA vaccine companies discussed and advocated for boosters.

A new report from the CDC Friday showed that Moderna's vaccine remained stronger in protecting against hospitalization compared to Pfizer and Johnson & Johnson (JNJ).

Both mRNA company CEOs have previously told Yahoo Finance that additional doses are inevitable. But when those doses will be needed — annually or sometime after a third shot — remains unknown.

Moderna president Stephen Hoge said as much in a recent interview.

"We don't really know" if a third shot will be the final or if more are needed, he said.

Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla penned an open letter advocating for boosters based on the company's clinical trial data and data from Israel.

But the FDA previously cautioned that some studies from Israel, including a few published this week, have not been independently verified by the regulatory agency.

Bourla also addressed the concerns about equitable distribution of vaccines globally.

"I believe ...that the introduction of booster doses should not change the number of doses that each country receives. No commitments already made by Pfizer to a country will change if boosters are approved," Bourla said.

Meanwhile, the U.S. is reportedly gearing up to buy an additional 500 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine for global donations, according to the Washington Post.


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fda-p...193422705.html

A U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) advisory panel voted unanimously Friday to recommend Pfizer (PFE)/BioNTech's (BNTX) third dose for Americans 65 and older, and for those with high risk of contracting a severe case of COVID-19.
The vote authorizing a booster for 65 and older was the panel's second decision of the afternoon, following a ruling against booster doses for Americans 16 and over. The second vote also approved emergency use authorization rather than a supplemental approval of the already fully-licensed vaccine.

 

[Gry]

not sure whats up here, but 20 minutes has reported that only 1 in 10 health care workers are ready to take this vaccine, apparently the norm for flu vaccine is a third that take it. so im surprised at this low rate of acceptance, but maybe it will increase as the weeks pass. this data came from just as the 1st vaccine got certified for use here.

Neat to see you posting again. Hope all is well.

 

[Gry]

This Week in Virology - run by Vincent Racaniello, professor at Columbia and crew
https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-805/

Resource provided by Bud Toaster.
Listened to a couple of episodes,
seems informative and interesting.

 

[TNTBudSticker]

All Vaxxinated People Must Quarantine Over the Winter Months or Risk Serious Illness!!

Confirming the rapidly deteriorating situation in Israel and the UK, the infectious disease expert stated: “Vaccinated people should be put in quarantine, and should be isolated from the society.”

He went on to say: “Unvaccinated people are not dangerous; vaccinated people are dangerous for others. It’s proven in Israel now – I’m in contact with many physicians in Israel – they’re having big problems, severe cases in the hospitals are among vaccinated people, and in UK also, you have the larger vaccination program and also there are problems.”

The current working group on the COVID-19 pandemic in France was reported to be “utterly panicked” on receipt of the news, fearing pandemonium if it follows the guidance of the experts.

Israeli doctor Kobi Haviv told Channel 13 News: “95% of seriously ill patients are vaccinated. Fully vaccinated people account for 85-90% of hospitalizations. We are opening more and more COVID branches. The effectiveness of vaccines is declining or disappearing.”

 

[TNTBudSticker]

https://www.covidglobalnews.live/he...s-vazzinated-people-are-dangerous-for-others/

Immunization Expert: ‘Unvazzinated People Are Not Dangerous; Vazzinated People Are Dangerous for Others’

 

[unclefishstick]

https://www.covidglobalnews.live/he...s-vazzinated-people-are-dangerous-for-others/

Immunization Expert: ‘Unvazzinated People Are Not Dangerous; Vazzinated People Are Dangerous for Others’

ummmm....vazzinated? is that like jazz hands?

 

[armedoldhippy]

FDA panel votes against Pfizer's booster shot


A U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) advisory panel voted Friday against approval of Pfizer (PFE)/BioNTech's (BNTX) third dose for the U.S.

The vote comes after a heated debate in recent weeks over the need for booster or additional shots, which both mRNA companies — Pfizer and Moderna (MRNA) — have advocated for.

they voted against EVERYONE getting a booster. they also voted 18-0 FOR those over 65 or with other health conditions to get the booster. just a "little" misleading of an interpretation of a headline...

 

[NEW ENGLAND]

ummmm....vazzinated? is that like jazz hands?

Lol.....jazzy hands

 

[h.h.]

ummmm....vazzinated? is that like jazz hands?

But it was Covid global news…quoting trump news. WTF

 

[armedoldhippy]

Chump news? that means it HAS to be true then, right?

 

[unclefishstick]

are we supposed to take that as a legit source to support his views? because it comes off as being kinda....what's a nice way to put this...dumb...best i can do!

 

[Cannavore]

https://www.covidglobalnews.live/he...s-vazzinated-people-are-dangerous-for-others/

Immunization Expert: ‘Unvazzinated People Are Not Dangerous; Vazzinated People Are Dangerous for Others’

 

[NEW ENGLAND]

I received a pneumovax & a flu vac yesterday.
Today I have a small growth at my tailbone

 

[TNTBudSticker]

https://www.citizensjournal.us/covid-deaths-plunge-after-major-world-city-introduces-ivermectin/


A citywide initiative in Mexico City to prescribe ivermectin to COVID-19 patients resulted in a plunge in hospitalizations and deaths, two studies found.

 

[NEW ENGLAND]

https://www.citizensjournal.us/covid-deaths-plunge-after-major-world-city-introduces-ivermectin/


A citywide initiative in Mexico City to prescribe ivermectin to COVID-19 patients resulted in a plunge in hospitalizations and deaths, two studies found.

Not to mention the severe shortage of apples,oddly enough