Hard Clay .. Had some questions ..

[Bud Jones]

My home is on the side of a mountain. .. There is a ledge about 12 feet wide and 200 feet long , I'm attempting to plant 6 or so on the ledge . It gets full sun ..

The problem is clay , lots of it . The first two holes are about 3 feet wide and 1/2 to two feet deep max. I hit hard clay at the bottom and couldn't really get any further .. Good work out tho !! .. Any way I was really hoping to use these .. Using my own Happy Frog mix .. Two bags a hole.. Is it worth it with the clay ? Was worried about drainage , healthy roots etc.. Thx in advance.!!

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

Hi, bud jones!

I'm not familiar with clay soil...my soil is very loamy. However, if I were in your situation, I would probably put a nice layer of hydroton or lava rock on the bottoms of those holes before I added any soil.

HB.

 

[Bud Jones]

Hi, bud jones!

I'm not familiar with clay soil...my soil is very loamy. However, if I were in your situation, I would probably put a nice layer of hydroton or lava rock on the bottoms of those holes before I added any soil.

HB.

good idea . Thx . I'm worried about the roots not being as to penetrate the bottom .. They have room horizontally tho ..don't want to waste good plants if the clay is an issue .. Maybe 4 hay bales in a square to make a raised bed,we'll see .

 

[gorilla ganja]

I would agree with both of you.
Raise the beds and put gravel at the bottom of the hole. I wouldn't think you have to use the expensive stuff. 6 inches of cheap gravel with a layer of weed fabric to keep the good soil from washing down and plugging the air pockets.
Also maybe a layer of coco or peat on top of the fabric.
If you have heavy rains and are worried about water pooling you could also install a weeping tile to drain excess water away.
Best of luck and may all your Buds be Huge.

Peace GG

 

[rod58]

you need gypsum if you can get it , makes the clay friable ..

 

[idiit]

I've worked a lot with hard clay in se usa.

I tried lots of amendments over 20+ years; over 5 gardens/year so that's over 100 guerilla gardens.

I failed. the failures were brutal to my life. seriously. I make money doing this and I went broke. hard. had to work bullshit low level jobs to pay bills. got treated like shit, got paid like shit, had to live like shit.

I gave up amending hard clay.

you can go tub grows like 5 gal. bkts. you can build up the area around the buckets for concealment if you can't dig holes to put the bkts. with drainage holes in. hard clay does not usually drain well; ponds up, roots die.

lots of ppl like to speculate on paper. go ahead. life hates losers. find out the hard way. maybe you will succeed where I failed. I gave up the idea of growing in hard clay.

you can remove large holes ( not amend, remove, totally remove) hard clay and fill with premium super soil or you can go tub grows. that's the only two options imo.

if you grow in large holes dug in hard clay make sure you have "slope to drain", "weeping tiles" or another method to drain excess water..

 

[aridbud]

How about 15 gallon nursery containers embedded on the ledge ?

 

[Dog Star]

Clay you can make rich soil with addition of a cow manure and biochar,over time and with
lot of work,few years and you get very good rich soil for your plants,
clay needs lot of time to become proper aerated fertile soil.

Dont use sand ever cause you will made hard armatured beton.

Usually in good soil mixes goes 10% of a clay for mineral part..

 

[idiit]

Usually in good soil mixes goes 10% of a clay for mineral part

^ yes. 10% would be ok for some clays. however some clays are really nasty.

How about 15 gallon nursery containers embedded on the ledge ?

^ yes. that's what i'm talking about.


I had a dream: amending hard clay. that dream literally fucked up my life.

the other really bad idea I had that I didn't shake until this year was guerilla growing vertical. there is no way with the extensive aerial surveillance and ground surveillance in my area that bright green 10' vertical cannabis plants have a chance of making it to harvest. i'm going horizontal this year. the fall will be the proof. of sites that did survive my outdoor growing environment less than half made it to harvest each year over the last 20+ years. there are only so many doable outdoor cannabis guerrilla sites in any given area. having to replace 50% of my sites on average each year was daunting to say the least.

why go vertical? ask yourself that question in addition to amending hard clay.

 

[Cannacamper]

Being from the SE, I can tell you clay is a beiatch to work for growing. As a hunter too, we amend our food plots every yr with lots of lime and ferts, just to get mediocre plots. And all we grow is clover and grass.
I went to the tire method. 2 tires, one on top of the other gives me 2 ft high and 2 1/2 wide. I use inside of both tires to hold water and have had good success this way. The concave of the tires will hold gallons of water and roots will work their way to the water after time. By the time there 3 ft tall or less, their sucking up that water. Excess water on top of plants will leach out of the bottom of tire where it touches the ground. I use a funnel to add water to sides of tires.

 

[Bud Jones]

I've worked a lot with hard clay in se usa.

I tried lots of amendments over 20+ years; over 5 gardens/year so that's over 100 guerilla gardens.

I failed. the failures were brutal to my life. seriously. I make money doing this and I went broke. hard. had to work bullshit low level jobs to pay bills. got treated like shit, got paid like shit, had to live like shit.

I gave up amending hard clay.

you can go tub grows like 5 gal. bkts. you can build up the area around the buckets for concealment if you can't dig holes to put the bkts. with drainage holes in. hard clay does not usually drain well; ponds up, roots die.

lots of ppl like to speculate on paper. go ahead. life hates losers. find out the hard way. maybe you will succeed where I failed. I gave up the idea of growing in hard clay.

you can remove large holes ( not amend, remove, totally remove) hard clay and fill with premium super soil or you can go tub grows. that's the only two options imo.

if you grow in large holes dug in hard clay make sure you have "slope to drain", "weeping tiles" or another method to drain excess water..

Thx man !! The struggle is real ! .. It's pouring today where I'm at .. I'll know better my plan of attack after my morning coffee . I'll see how full the holes are and what the drainage situation is.

 

[Bud Jones]

How about 15 gallon nursery containers embedded on the ledge ?

15 gallons would get root bound quick .. Gonna do an experiment .. 3 holes , hydro coral and gravel lining them , 3 45 gallon smart pots on the ledge .. Gotta countersink the pots a bit , lol.. I have company over sometime haha.

 

[plantingplants]

Before you get all crazy with the drainage, fill your holes with water and see how long it takes to drain. Then you'll know...

 

[Easy7]

Gypsum works wonders with clay but it needs mixed in. Never tried to just let gypsum seep in and not sure what it would do.

 

[Manivelle]

hi some pics could help us to know what you need.
there are different type of clay
you're on a mountain. there is certainly good amount of humus around. you could use it. post some pics please.
amending clay is not a good idea as clay is way too compact . roots need space and air..
you have to add soil structure helper like vegetable rich soil components and things like river sand . compost,humus etcc... are the first you had to find.
but the amount of clay had to be no more than 1/4 of the total for ideal mix.
why not using smart pots and good soil mix directly ?
you can grow in clay but don't expect the result you can get with a good well prepared soil.

 

[Bud Jones]

I'll post pics of the clay in a bit .. It's pouring here .. Might just use smart pots .. The clay at the bottom of the holes is very hard grey stuff ..

 

[Bud Jones]

\uc0\u8236 }

 

[Manivelle]

the brown first inches are totaly usable in the mix.
are you sure it's clay under?
anyway you shoud use smart pots IMO.

you could some leaves +humus and other stuff (wood chips,fruits,etc) to start making your own compost for next year . adding blood and bone meal basalt crustacean and you're ready to go .

 

[idiit]

yeah, those top inches look good to me also.

in my area potholes /tire tracks in dirt hold water for weeks.

after that rain no ponding at all.

 

[Bud Jones]

yeah, those top inches look good to me also.

in my area potholes /tire tracks in dirt hold water for weeks.

after that rain no ponding at all.

think I'll use the 3 holes . I'll do an experiment . Gypsum , lime and Happy Frog, casting etc.. I'll run the lankiest runt seedlings .. Learning is fun ..I'll save my best starts for the smarties and raised beds.. I've been doing outdoor for thirty years now .. Always learning . That's why I love what I do