he will incur less negative karma though
I have accumulated much negative karma through shooting hundreds of animals and eating thousands more in my past
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he will incur less negative karma though
I have accumulated much negative karma through shooting hundreds of animals and eating thousands more in my past
Photosynthesis
Member
If you ate what you shot and did not kill purely to show you could hit a target then I don't see any bad karma attached to the act.
I have never done driven game shooting , clay pigeon serves a better purpose.
A belief in karma requires a belief in god , and originally in reincarnation , so its a non starter for me.
I have never done driven game shooting , clay pigeon serves a better purpose.
A belief in karma requires a belief in god , and originally in reincarnation , so its a non starter for me.
as long as the meat taste good I don't care much .......to each their own ... don't waste the blood it makes a great thickener/seasoning in sauces and gravies...and blood sausage rules...I hunt whenever I can and got no problems killing and butchering any animal....had some squirrel,quail and rabbit last week....yeehaw.... as much as I like my veggies and such I would kill myself before becoming a vegan...rabbit food is best served with the rabbit
Photosynthesis
Member
my favorite vegetarian tale.......
so this gal that lives up here 'Jenny' is a vegan, she doesn't look very healthy though, pale skin, less than avg looking teeth, hair that greyed long before her 40s and anorexic thin. Jenny however never missed an opportunity to give us meat eaters a piece of her mind, she held herself above us by the way she talked down at us in superior tones.
well one day we're all sitting around her yard getting blazed when she starts up the same routine, if I'd mentioned a sprained ankle Jenny in a single sentence would try to blame my meat consumption and exclaim the virtues of being vegan.
I'd heard enough, I pointed to her horse in the pasture and said to Jenny, "You seem to have no problem jumping on that horse and expect it to do your bidding though......."
I really didn't figure her to burst into tears instantly, not at all, I was sure to get some smarmy comeback from her, instead she ran into her house crying, her glass house.
so this gal that lives up here 'Jenny' is a vegan, she doesn't look very healthy though, pale skin, less than avg looking teeth, hair that greyed long before her 40s and anorexic thin. Jenny however never missed an opportunity to give us meat eaters a piece of her mind, she held herself above us by the way she talked down at us in superior tones.
well one day we're all sitting around her yard getting blazed when she starts up the same routine, if I'd mentioned a sprained ankle Jenny in a single sentence would try to blame my meat consumption and exclaim the virtues of being vegan.
I'd heard enough, I pointed to her horse in the pasture and said to Jenny, "You seem to have no problem jumping on that horse and expect it to do your bidding though......."
I really didn't figure her to burst into tears instantly, not at all, I was sure to get some smarmy comeback from her, instead she ran into her house crying, her glass house.
Photosynthesis
Member
Devil's advocate here.
Just because you are a vegan does not mean you eat healthy.
No one should appear as you described no matter what their diet.
People in the western world seem to wear blinders when it comes to different diets.
Shit is funny.
There are 7 billion people on the planet with many different diets.
Only 330 million Americans.
How does everyone else live?
When you remove blinders you can then see the world for what it is.
Large doses of psychedelics are a great thing to cast away your ego.
I love hearing about the "unhealthy" looking vegan's. Especially from American's. Being that 2/3 of American's are over weight is there more of an irony?
I wear leather shoes, and go fishing. Catch, and release unless the person I am with wants to eat them. Been fishing my whole life. Not gonna stop because I don't eat meat. Fuck what everyone else thinks.
Ok two things:
First off I eat halal meat.
Secondly vegetables are alive too- Vegetarian = plant murderer
First off I eat halal meat.
Secondly vegetables are alive too- Vegetarian = plant murderer
and they never even had a chance to run.......
Photosynthesis
Member
You are assuming everyone is a vegetarian because they don't want to "kill."
Not true at all.
I love veggies but wouldn't ever give up meat....to each their own.....now off to whack some fish for dinner....peace
Islamophobia is on the rise in the West. 11 men on 9/11 stigmatized over 300 million arabs and over a billion muslims around the world.
Remember World War II ? How many people did the Nazis kill? How many died on 9/11 ? Why do so many have to pay for the actions of the few.
Anyone still divided by ethnicity, race or nationality truly does not deserve to be around in the 21st century. We are one big melting pot now.
Remember World War II ? How many people did the Nazis kill? How many died on 9/11 ? Why do so many have to pay for the actions of the few.
Anyone still divided by ethnicity, race or nationality truly does not deserve to be around in the 21st century. We are one big melting pot now.
its not halal meat that's the true problem ,,its the fact that's it been given to people without their knowledge .
A
Asche
what are you people arguing about how the animal was killed
when it lands in your stomaches anyway, one could say thats paradox.
to keep cattle in a box for a lifetime till it gets killed is fucked up enough,
paralyzing it with kosher or halal methods? whats the difference!!!
if you eat it anyway you should think about is it nutritious or is it tasty.
if you people want to eat meat without harm whatsoever
then go and get yourself a replicator finally.
further is that nowadays we produce far more crops as we actually do eat.
despite the people dying in 3rd world countries having no food at all.
so it would be easy to feed on crops only.
no meat needed.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
but under the line many eat meat because they grew up like that.
many people are so focused on eating meat only - being even proud
they would not even think that we have far more possibilities to incest
very tasty and nutritious food without harming anything but vegetables
if you have a guilty conscience about how the animal has to die
i suggest you stop eating it.
when it lands in your stomaches anyway, one could say thats paradox.
to keep cattle in a box for a lifetime till it gets killed is fucked up enough,
paralyzing it with kosher or halal methods? whats the difference!!!
if you eat it anyway you should think about is it nutritious or is it tasty.
if you people want to eat meat without harm whatsoever
then go and get yourself a replicator finally.
further is that nowadays we produce far more crops as we actually do eat.
despite the people dying in 3rd world countries having no food at all.
so it would be easy to feed on crops only.
no meat needed.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
but under the line many eat meat because they grew up like that.
many people are so focused on eating meat only - being even proud
they would not even think that we have far more possibilities to incest
very tasty and nutritious food without harming anything but vegetables
if you have a guilty conscience about how the animal has to die
i suggest you stop eating it.
http://meat.tamu.edu/ansc-307-honors/kosher-halal/
Meat Science
Kosher and Halal
Kosher and Halal describe what is “fit and proper” to eat for two groups of people, Jews and Muslims. Although these terms are used to describe a wide array of foods and beverages that are acceptable to eat, we will concentrate on meat.
Both of these food laws have their roots in scripture, The Holy Bible and Torah for Kosher and The Quran for Halal. We will discuss some general areas for each food law to gain a basic understanding of what each entails.
Kosher
Clean and unclean animals
Deuteronomy 14:3-10.
Do not eat any detestable thing. These are the animals you may eat: the ox, the sheep, the goat, the deer, the gazelle, the roe deer, the wild goat, the ibex, the antelope and the mountain sheep. You may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two and that chews the cud. However, of those that chew the cud or that have a split hoof completely divided you may not eat the camel, the rabbit or the coney. Although they chew the cud, they do not have a split hoof; they are ceremonially unclean for you. The pig is also unclean; although it has a split hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses.
Of all the creatures living in the water, you may eat any that has fins and scales. But anything that does not have fins and scales you may not eat; for you it is unclean.
Ritualistic slaughter
Ritual slaughter is known as shechitah, and the person who performs the slaughter is called a “shochet,” both from the Hebrew root Shin-Chet-Tav, meaning to destroy or kill. The method of slaughter is a quick, deep stroke across the throat with a perfectly sharp blade with no nicks or unevenness. This method is painless, causes unconsciousness within two seconds, and is widely recognized as the most humane method of slaughter possible.
Another advantage of shechitah is that ensures rapid, complete draining of the blood, which is also necessary to render the meat kosher.
The shochet is not simply a butcher; he must be a pious man, well-trained in Jewish law, particularly as it relates to kashrut. In smaller, more remote communities, the rabbi and the shochet were often the same person.
Glatt Kosher meat
“Glatt” means “smooth” and refers to the lung of the animal during inspection. The inspectors (“bodeks”) examine certain organs from each animal. The lungs of each Kosher-killed animal are examined for any adhesion or other defects. If there are adhesions, the bodeks will attempt to blow up the lungs to see if they will hold air. If they can, the meat is Kosher.
Glatt Kosher meat must be soaked and salted with 72 hr of slaughter, since it is not customarily subjected to the extra spraying (“begissing”) that can keep meat moist prior to soaking and salting.
Meat and dairy
Exodus 23:19; Exodus 34:26; Deuteronomy 14:21.
“Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.”
These passages have been interpreted as meaning that meat and dairy cannot be eaten together. This separation includes not only the foods themselves, but the utensils, pots and pans with which they are cooked, the plates and flatware from which they are eaten, the dishwashers or dishpans in which they are cleaned, and the towels on which they are dried. A kosher household will have at least two sets of pots, pans and dishes: one for meat and one for dairy.
One must wait a significant amount of time between eating meat and dairy. Opinions differ, and vary from three to six hours. This is because fatty residues and meat particles tend to cling to the mouth. From dairy to meat, however, one need only rinse one’s mouth and eat a neutral solid like bread, unless the dairy product in question is also of a type that tends to stick in the mouth.
The Yiddish words fleishig (meat), milchig (dairy) and pareve (neutral) are commonly used to describe food or utensils that fall into one of those categories.
Note that even the smallest quantity of dairy (or meat) in something renders it entirely dairy (or meat) for purposes of kashrut. For example, most margarines are dairy for kosher purposes, because they contain a small quantity of whey or other dairy products to give it a dairy-like taste. Animal fat is considered meat for purposes of kashrut.
Consuming blood
Deuteronomy 12:21-25.
If the place where the Lord your God chooses to put his Name is too far away from you, you may slaughter animals from the herds and flocks the Lord has given you, as I have commanded you, and in your own towns you may eat as much of them as you want. Eat them as you would gazelle or deer. Both the ceremonially unclean and the clean may eat. But be sure you do not eat the blood, because the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the meat. You must not eat the blood; pour it out on the ground like water. Do not eat it, so that it may go well with you and your children after you, because you will be doing what is right in the eyes of the Lord.
Blood is forbidden to be consumed. This is the reason why complete bleeding and soaking of meat in salt and water is so important in removing residual blood.
Avoidance of the sciatic nerve
Genesis 32:22-32That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two maidservants and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. After he had sent them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.”But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”The man asked him, “What is your name?”“Jacob,” he answered.
Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome.” Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.”
But he replied, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed him there. So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”
The sun rose above him as he passed Peniel, and he was limping because of his hip. Therefore to this day the Israelites do not eat the tendon attached to the socket of the hip, because the socket of Jacob’s hip was touched near the tendon.
The sciatic nerve and its adjoining blood vessels may not be eaten. The process of removing this nerve is time consuming and not cost-effective, so most American slaughterers simply sell the hind quarters to non-kosher butchers.
Jewish Dietary Laws — Four “Genders”
Meat
During the eight days of Passover, which falls in March or April, Kosher requirements change. In many Jewish households, two entirely separate sets of meat and dairy dishes and utensils are used for this holiday alone. The basis of Passover’s special requirements is to avoid any leavened grains or related materials, a a commemoration of the Jews’ hasty departure from Egypt before the bread they were baking had time to rise.
Passover requirements impact products such as processed meats manufacturing. Substitute ingredients must be found for some of the products such as sugar and flour.
What to eat and not to eat
Quran: Surah 2:172-173.
O ye who believe!
Eat of the good things
That We have provided for you
And be grateful to Allah
If it is Him ye Worship
He hat only forbidden you
Dead meat, and blood.
And the flesh of swine
And that on which
Any other name hat been invoked
Besides that of Allah.
Objection to swine includes (from the study notes in the Quran)
Quran: Surah 6:118.
So eat of (meats)
On which Allah’s name
Hath been pronounced.
If ye have faith
In His signs
Quran: Surah 6:121.
Eat not of (meats)
On which Allah’s name
Hath not been pronounced:
That would be impiety
But the evil ones
Ever inspire their friends
To contend with you
If ye were to obey them,
Ye would indeed be Pagans.
One differentiation between Halal and Kosher is that before slaughter, Halal requires the praying to Allah. Kosher does not require a prayer to God before slaughtering.
There are strict laws guiding the slaughtering of animals
Key Issues for Halal Foods
350,000 to 400,000 Muslims in U.S. prisons
Meat Science
Kosher and Halal
Objectives:
- To discuss the background surrounding Kosher and its importance to the meat industry.
- To discuss the background surrounding Halal and its importance to the meat industry.
- To compare the similarities and differences between Kosher and Halal.
Kosher and Halal describe what is “fit and proper” to eat for two groups of people, Jews and Muslims. Although these terms are used to describe a wide array of foods and beverages that are acceptable to eat, we will concentrate on meat.
Both of these food laws have their roots in scripture, The Holy Bible and Torah for Kosher and The Quran for Halal. We will discuss some general areas for each food law to gain a basic understanding of what each entails.
Kosher
Clean and unclean animals
Deuteronomy 14:3-10.
Do not eat any detestable thing. These are the animals you may eat: the ox, the sheep, the goat, the deer, the gazelle, the roe deer, the wild goat, the ibex, the antelope and the mountain sheep. You may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two and that chews the cud. However, of those that chew the cud or that have a split hoof completely divided you may not eat the camel, the rabbit or the coney. Although they chew the cud, they do not have a split hoof; they are ceremonially unclean for you. The pig is also unclean; although it has a split hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses.
Of all the creatures living in the water, you may eat any that has fins and scales. But anything that does not have fins and scales you may not eat; for you it is unclean.
Ritualistic slaughter
Ritual slaughter is known as shechitah, and the person who performs the slaughter is called a “shochet,” both from the Hebrew root Shin-Chet-Tav, meaning to destroy or kill. The method of slaughter is a quick, deep stroke across the throat with a perfectly sharp blade with no nicks or unevenness. This method is painless, causes unconsciousness within two seconds, and is widely recognized as the most humane method of slaughter possible.
Another advantage of shechitah is that ensures rapid, complete draining of the blood, which is also necessary to render the meat kosher.
The shochet is not simply a butcher; he must be a pious man, well-trained in Jewish law, particularly as it relates to kashrut. In smaller, more remote communities, the rabbi and the shochet were often the same person.
Glatt Kosher meat
“Glatt” means “smooth” and refers to the lung of the animal during inspection. The inspectors (“bodeks”) examine certain organs from each animal. The lungs of each Kosher-killed animal are examined for any adhesion or other defects. If there are adhesions, the bodeks will attempt to blow up the lungs to see if they will hold air. If they can, the meat is Kosher.
Glatt Kosher meat must be soaked and salted with 72 hr of slaughter, since it is not customarily subjected to the extra spraying (“begissing”) that can keep meat moist prior to soaking and salting.
Meat and dairy
Exodus 23:19; Exodus 34:26; Deuteronomy 14:21.
“Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.”
These passages have been interpreted as meaning that meat and dairy cannot be eaten together. This separation includes not only the foods themselves, but the utensils, pots and pans with which they are cooked, the plates and flatware from which they are eaten, the dishwashers or dishpans in which they are cleaned, and the towels on which they are dried. A kosher household will have at least two sets of pots, pans and dishes: one for meat and one for dairy.
One must wait a significant amount of time between eating meat and dairy. Opinions differ, and vary from three to six hours. This is because fatty residues and meat particles tend to cling to the mouth. From dairy to meat, however, one need only rinse one’s mouth and eat a neutral solid like bread, unless the dairy product in question is also of a type that tends to stick in the mouth.
The Yiddish words fleishig (meat), milchig (dairy) and pareve (neutral) are commonly used to describe food or utensils that fall into one of those categories.
Note that even the smallest quantity of dairy (or meat) in something renders it entirely dairy (or meat) for purposes of kashrut. For example, most margarines are dairy for kosher purposes, because they contain a small quantity of whey or other dairy products to give it a dairy-like taste. Animal fat is considered meat for purposes of kashrut.
Consuming blood
Deuteronomy 12:21-25.
If the place where the Lord your God chooses to put his Name is too far away from you, you may slaughter animals from the herds and flocks the Lord has given you, as I have commanded you, and in your own towns you may eat as much of them as you want. Eat them as you would gazelle or deer. Both the ceremonially unclean and the clean may eat. But be sure you do not eat the blood, because the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the meat. You must not eat the blood; pour it out on the ground like water. Do not eat it, so that it may go well with you and your children after you, because you will be doing what is right in the eyes of the Lord.
Blood is forbidden to be consumed. This is the reason why complete bleeding and soaking of meat in salt and water is so important in removing residual blood.
Avoidance of the sciatic nerve
Genesis 32:22-32That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two maidservants and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. After he had sent them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.”But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”The man asked him, “What is your name?”“Jacob,” he answered.
Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome.” Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.”
But he replied, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed him there. So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”
The sun rose above him as he passed Peniel, and he was limping because of his hip. Therefore to this day the Israelites do not eat the tendon attached to the socket of the hip, because the socket of Jacob’s hip was touched near the tendon.
The sciatic nerve and its adjoining blood vessels may not be eaten. The process of removing this nerve is time consuming and not cost-effective, so most American slaughterers simply sell the hind quarters to non-kosher butchers.
Jewish Dietary Laws — Four “Genders”
Meat
- Religiously slaughtered
- Salting and soaking to remove blood
- Includes processing equipment (becomes “meat”)
- Milk from kosher animals
- Processed products from milk and all equipment become “dairy”
- Also referred to as “neutral” (neither meat or dairy)
- Not kosher (unclean)
During the eight days of Passover, which falls in March or April, Kosher requirements change. In many Jewish households, two entirely separate sets of meat and dairy dishes and utensils are used for this holiday alone. The basis of Passover’s special requirements is to avoid any leavened grains or related materials, a a commemoration of the Jews’ hasty departure from Egypt before the bread they were baking had time to rise.
Passover requirements impact products such as processed meats manufacturing. Substitute ingredients must be found for some of the products such as sugar and flour.
- No ingredients derived from the five major grains
- Wheat, oats, rye, barley, spelt
- Corn and rice also prohibited since could be confused for one of the five major grains
- No ingredients derived from legumes
- No extracts derived from legumes or the five major grains
- No mustard
What to eat and not to eat
Quran: Surah 2:172-173.
O ye who believe!
Eat of the good things
That We have provided for you
And be grateful to Allah
If it is Him ye Worship
He hat only forbidden you
Dead meat, and blood.
And the flesh of swine
And that on which
Any other name hat been invoked
Besides that of Allah.
Objection to swine includes (from the study notes in the Quran)
- That they are filthy animals in other respects, and the flesh of filthy animals taken as food affects the eater,
- That swine’s flesh has more fat than muscle-building material,
- That it is more liable to disease than other kinds of meat: e.g., trichinosis, characterized by hair-like worms in the muscular tissue.
Quran: Surah 6:118.
So eat of (meats)
On which Allah’s name
Hath been pronounced.
If ye have faith
In His signs
Quran: Surah 6:121.
Eat not of (meats)
On which Allah’s name
Hath not been pronounced:
That would be impiety
But the evil ones
Ever inspire their friends
To contend with you
If ye were to obey them,
Ye would indeed be Pagans.
One differentiation between Halal and Kosher is that before slaughter, Halal requires the praying to Allah. Kosher does not require a prayer to God before slaughtering.
There are strict laws guiding the slaughtering of animals
- Any Moslem having reached puberty is allowed to slaughter after saying the name of Allah and facing Makkah (Mecca).
- The animal should not be thirsty at slaughter time.
- The knife must be sharp, to minimize the time and hence save the animal pain associated with the slaughtering process.
- The knife must not be sharpened in front of the animal because it may cause undue stress to that animal.
- The slaughter is to be done by cutting the throat of the animal or by piercing the hollow of the throat, causing the quickest death with the least amount of pain.
- The name of Allah has to be mentioned before or during slaughtering, since the Creator is the granter and taker of life; the name must be said by a member of the Moslem faith.
- Meat slaughtered by people of the Jewish or Christian faith (People of the Book) may also be eaten.
- The blood must be completely drawn from the carcass.
Key Issues for Halal Foods
350,000 to 400,000 Muslims in U.S. prisons
- Many are converted to the Islam faith in prison
- Suits in California and New Jersey regarding having Halal foods
- Texas Department of Criminal Justice prepares beef franks and bologna for “lock-down” days
- Impact on sheep and goat market
- Many sheep and goats are slaughtered in Muslim backyards during various celebrations
